Days are numbered for the US News "ranking" racket? Yale...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean return to the prehistoric days where there were no rankings and kids applied to whatever school they’d heard of? No thanks. I’d rather see schools noticed for their efforts to improve programs. Sure there’s lots of gaming but it’s better than NO information.

No rankings doesn't mean "no information". We have the internet now, and there's no reason an org like US News or other outlets can't compile information on colleges that is relevant to students and their families. It's actually possible to provide info like:

- What majors are offered
- A school's reputation in a given industry
- Post-graduate employment statistics
- Average class size
- Student survey results on campus culture, accessibility of professors, and overall experience

And so on. But different students can want or need wildly different things in a school. So having a single list that ranks US colleges and universities based on a relatively narrow set of factors (all of which are "game-able" for the university) is nonsensical. The only people who like it are the hyper-competitive parents and kids who want the bragging rights of attending a "top" school regardless of whether the school is a good fit for their kids.

+1 Here's a good essay on why (and how) people should make their own rankings based on what's important to them using info that's easily available to anyone.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/

I agree.

Our reasons for choosing the in-state flagship UMD for CS were as follows -
- Strong department and high ranking for major
- Job prospects, salary of graduates.
- In-state tuition and generous merit scholarships
- Close to home
- Existing network of DMV peers that can be expanded due to size and diversity of school.
- Urban and connected school in DMV
- Access to internships in DMV
- Diversity of race and gender in STEM subjects

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean return to the prehistoric days where there were no rankings and kids applied to whatever school they’d heard of? No thanks. I’d rather see schools noticed for their efforts to improve programs. Sure there’s lots of gaming but it’s better than NO information.

No rankings doesn't mean "no information". We have the internet now, and there's no reason an org like US News or other outlets can't compile information on colleges that is relevant to students and their families. It's actually possible to provide info like:

- What majors are offered
- A school's reputation in a given industry
- Post-graduate employment statistics
- Average class size
- Student survey results on campus culture, accessibility of professors, and overall experience

And so on. But different students can want or need wildly different things in a school. So having a single list that ranks US colleges and universities based on a relatively narrow set of factors (all of which are "game-able" for the university) is nonsensical. The only people who like it are the hyper-competitive parents and kids who want the bragging rights of attending a "top" school regardless of whether the school is a good fit for their kids.

+1 Here's a good essay on why (and how) people should make their own rankings based on what's important to them using info that's easily available to anyone.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/

I agree.

Our reasons for choosing the in-state flagship UMD for CS were as follows -
- Strong department and high ranking for major
- Job prospects, salary of graduates.
- In-state tuition and generous merit scholarships
- Close to home
- Existing network of DMV peers that can be expanded due to size and diversity of school.
- Urban and connected school in DMV
- Access to internships in DMV
- Diversity of race and gender in STEM subjects

This isn't as relevant for law schools, which are the only ones currently refusing to provide info to USNWR. Going to an elite or T-14 or however you want to phrase it has been considered more important for law school than undergrad. Going to a good undergrad school these days is basically like going to a Big 3, right? Meet some useful people and get into a great grad school (maybe get a good job for few years first)!

[Anonymous]

What a weak response from USNWR: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/articles/2022-11-17/u-s-news-best-law-schools-rankings-will-continue-to-inform-prospective-students

[Anonymous]

Berkeley, Georgetown, Columbia, Stanford just pulled out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a weak response from USNWR: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/articles/2022-11-17/u-s-news-best-law-schools-rankings-will-continue-to-inform-prospective-students

What, exactly, do you think it can improve upon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a weak response from USNWR: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/articles/2022-11-17/u-s-news-best-law-schools-rankings-will-continue-to-inform-prospective-students

What, exactly, do you think it can improve upon?

New poster--With regard to the statement, not much. With regard to all of their various rankings, everything. They should stop ranking and only provide the data and means for people to create their own rankings.

[Anonymous]

When I went to college in the 80s we had guides that put colleges into groups (“highly selective” “selective” etc).

I actually think that’s a a better way. We focused more
on details and while I remember talk of whether people were applying to highly selective colleges vs other categories, it wasn’t as big of a deal.

The only real difference were if people were applying to ivies and even then it depended. Like back then UPenn wasn’t a huge deal. It was thought of as harder to get into Penn State main campus as a freshman!

[Anonymous]

(Most students went to satellite campuses first but getting into main campus as a freshman was a big deal)

[Anonymous]

It's just for law school
Who cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's just for law school
Who cares

Law schools are only the beginning...

Undergrad administrators at the top schools feel the same way about USNWR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a weak response from USNWR: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/articles/2022-11-17/u-s-news-best-law-schools-rankings-will-continue-to-inform-prospective-students

What, exactly, do you think it can improve upon?

They essentially didn't push back at all about any reasons participating would be useful and just rolled over. The statements from the schools haven't been flattering either.

I guess we shouldn't expect too much. USNWR has always been a 2nd or 3rd rate publication that just found a niche ranking things like schools and hospitals. They wouldn't make the top 5 in their own industry if they had a ranking

[Anonymous]

They have made it clear that they are going to continue to rank schools. People will still trust this as the leading source. This is a symbolic move by the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school rankings are a slightly different kettle of fish. The T14 virtually never change, and every law firm knows what those are, so either way, not a huge impact.

From another angle, however, this makes one wonder what Yale feels it needs to hide.

Exactly. I’m no fan of the USNW rankings, but Yale & Harvard were fine with them when they were 1 & 2. Now they’re starting to drop in the rankings, they want to take their ball and go home.

It does make one wonder if the backlash against the recent shenanigans on campus is having an effect on employment prospects for graduates.

You’re the one who should just go home. Yale has been ranked number one forever and there’s no indication that that’s gonna change any time soon.

Yale's score was dropping even though they were still at the top due to "peer rating" because more and more judges were saying they wouldn't accept clerks from there. So they quit. That should help their reputation. They can frame it as DEI but everyone knows why.

A few wingnut judges don’t have that much influence.

Wanting clerks that can think clearly and won't leak info based on their own agenda is hardly "wingnut." Have you met any recent grads? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school rankings are a slightly different kettle of fish. The T14 virtually never change, and every law firm knows what those are, so either way, not a huge impact.

From another angle, however, this makes one wonder what Yale feels it needs to hide.

Exactly. I’m no fan of the USNW rankings, but Yale & Harvard were fine with them when they were 1 & 2. Now they’re starting to drop in the rankings, they want to take their ball and go home.

It does make one wonder if the backlash against the recent shenanigans on campus is having an effect on employment prospects for graduates.

You’re the one who should just go home. Yale has been ranked number one forever and there’s no indication that that’s gonna change any time soon.

Yale's score was dropping even though they were still at the top due to "peer rating" because more and more judges were saying they wouldn't accept clerks from there. So they quit. That should help their reputation. They can frame it as DEI but everyone knows why.

A few wingnut judges don’t have that much influence.

Wanting clerks that can think clearly and won't leak info based on their own agenda is hardly "wingnut." Have you met any recent grads? No thanks.

Looks like Alito should bar himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just for law school
Who cares

Law schools are only the beginning...

Undergrad administrators at the top schools feel the same way about USNWR.

Especially administrators at colleges that were caught submitting fake data to USNWR