"I thought 50% for no work was okay and I was wrong"

[Anonymous]

I have a child with severe mental illness. An issue we have had is even if our child didn't attend 95% of classes or do barely any work, somehow he passed some courses last year and was then moved on to the next level. He can't do the math sequence or language sequence if he doesn't know any of the material, and shouldn't have been passed in the course. Once you have a D, you can't retake the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

In Europe exams and intelligent tests are given at about 8th grade. Those who do not do well are not on the college track.

Ah, yes, the “if it’s Europe it must be better” trope. Hint: It’s not.

[Anonymous]

EQUITY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In MCPS, the rule was (though I am dated) you had to attempt an assignment to get the 50%. If the work was not done, it was still a zero.

That's not the rule in FCPS. Nothing lower than 50%.

I can assure you, my kid at Madison is definitely receiving zeros for work not turned in. Missing assignments are a constant struggle. I see the zeros and how they affect his overall grade until he completes them.

Same.

Madison isn't going by the FCPS policy then.

If a student has been given multiple opportunities to complete work and has not done so, and parent contact has been made for major assessments, quizzes or tests (tasks weighted more than 10%), a score equivalent to an F ( i.e. 50 on a 100 point scale) may be entered in the gradebook in accordance with the reasonable late work policy established by the school or teacher teams.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/grading-and-reporting/secondary/grading-assignments-and-assessments

My Madison student’s first AP math test was an F. I think a 25. There were 4 questions, no partial credit was given. No retakes given either. All high grades since then, no retakes ever, and the 25 is still in the grade book.

Very similar situation at Langley. Who do I contact?

The issue I have with this is these kids are lumped in with all the others who ARE receiving inflated grades because they are all from FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

There are good vo techs. And I agree there should be more programs. But That doesn’t fix the problem. A HS diploma still requires English and Math every year, two years of foreign language, etc. And jobs require a HS diploma even if you have a trade skill.

A VoTech school would provide those classes. They would not have AP available because the kids are not planning on college so they don't need AP, at least that is how VoTech worked when I was in school. The kids attended a school that included all the requirements needed for graduation from HS but the school had trade programs that allowed kids to complete the steps for whatever certification they needed to enter a trade when they were done with HS. If anything, the reading and math programs in a real VoTech program work beter for kids because they end up teaching math in a way that makes sense for kids entering a trade. You figure out why understanding fractions and ratios and stats is important when you are learning how those concepts apply to construction or cars or welding. Now the math you are learning means something because it is a part of your job and not just an abstract concept. The program had partnerships with different trades so that the students were introduced to the trades and had opportunities similar to internships. They graduated with a regular High School diploma and were ready to step into the trade of their choice.

VoTech schools are not just offering wood shop or metal shop or an auto shop, they are full programs. They are amazing and great for kids who are not interested in college and want to explore different options for other job paths. They help kids who are similar hang together and get through the High School requirements while choosing a different career path.

It is kind of amazing that FCPS has these academies but doesn't seem to offer a proper VoTech experience, especially when every stat out there shows that less then 50% of Americans have a college degree. HS should be offering solid, legit paths for kids who know that they are not interested in college early on. T

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

My high schools in Massachusetts and California, we moved during high school, allowed kids to apply to participate in the VoTech programs. My area in Massachusetts actually had an entire school that was VoTech only that required an application and interview to make sure that the kids who were attending wanted to be there and understood what the program entailed. They had all the VoTech options as well as the classes needed to earn a high school diploma. No one thought lesser of the people who choose that path because those kids landed some very good jobs after they graduated.

ie VoTech programs don't need to be tracked programs, people can select them.

You can select academies now- no one does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

In Europe exams and intelligent tests are given at about 8th grade. Those who do not do well are not on the college track.

If you thought the scramble around LIV was bad, have 8th graders take a test that determines whether or not they go to college (or the parents pay for private)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

My high schools in Massachusetts and California, we moved during high school, allowed kids to apply to participate in the VoTech programs. My area in Massachusetts actually had an entire school that was VoTech only that required an application and interview to make sure that the kids who were attending wanted to be there and understood what the program entailed. They had all the VoTech options as well as the classes needed to earn a high school diploma. No one thought lesser of the people who choose that path because those kids landed some very good jobs after they graduated.

ie VoTech programs don't need to be tracked programs, people can select them.

You can select academies now- no one does.

That is because Academies are disruptive. You miss classes in order to get to the Academy classes. A VoTech school is a school that is based on teaching VoTech skills. You attend that school. You take math, English, science, and gym at that school. You also take classes associated with trades and eventually choose one that you want to be proficient in. You graduate with a HS degree and the credentials to work in a trade. Think TJ but for kids who are interested n learning a trade. We have schools that are under capacity, turn them into VoTech schools so that kids wh are not interested in college have an option. Give those kids a place to go and learn and hang out with kids who are interested n auto shop, wood shop, metals shop, welding or whatever fields that they might be interested in.

The Academies sound great on paper but are disruptive because they are hard to get to.

A good Vo Tech program would reduce over crowding at some schools because the kids who are interested in a trade will leave that school to go to the Vo Tech school. It could make better use of the space at schools that are under capacity. It might even engage the kids who are falling through the cracks at those schools.

I don't agree with how Europe ends up tracking kids, I don't like the idea of testing to determine where kids land. I do like that Europe offers programs that allow kids who don't want to go to college to learn a trade while in HS. The US falls way short in that area and it is kind of ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

In Europe exams and intelligent tests are given at about 8th grade. Those who do not do well are not on the college track.

Ah, yes, the “if it’s Europe it must be better” trope. Hint: It’s not.

Right…have you compared our schools to say, schools in Germany where they do this? I’ve hosted exchange students 3X and as freshman they were all so much farther ahead (especially in math) it was really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

In Europe exams and intelligent tests are given at about 8th grade. Those who do not do well are not on the college track.

No, it’s actually 5th grade. They weed the kids out then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those rules are offensive to students who actually prioritize their schoolwork.

Only if you think the entire point of school is to rank students.

If you think it’s to get the most kids possible a basic level of knowledge so they can be productive members of society, it’s not.

Another part of school is learning to be a productive citizen who not only has a basic level of knowledge but also has a work ethic, knows how to meet expectations, handle deadlines, etc. A basic level of functioning.

Ranking students is a way to bring in people's natural competitiveness in order to help them learn these skills, it's not the end goal.

This. Plus, like it or not, ranking matters for colleges. So yeah, if some slacker or disinterested kid has a shot at the same schools as a kid who actually did the work and didt have to do constant retakes- not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, this is one anecdotal point of view. I can give you an anecdote of the other side. My F students are continually trying because the D is close. They are working all year, vs. before when after 1st quarter they'd be behavior issues because there was statistically no way for them to pass unless they got As the rest of the year.

This is also Jay Matthews, historically not a fan of public schools.

No offense but is the goal really to try and pass through kids with D's? I mean, I suppose that gets us to the graduation percentage we seem to want but I don't take that as a sign of a an initiative working.

As the parent of a kid with a low IQ who D’d out of high school, I can tell you that it is absolutely a service to both kids and society to do what it takes to get a kid a HS diploma. A HS diploma is the gateway to a full time job with health insurance and paid sick leave,’all of which benefits both the kid and the rest of us who will not have to support him through Medicaid, public assistance and all of those other things that come with unemployment.

Kids who D out aren’t going to compete for college seats and educational monies. But they might be driving your public transportation buses and trains, fixing your cars and stocking your grocery shelves. We need them just as much as we need those who have the capability to go to college. And for those that think you can get a job that is full time with insurance and paid leave without a HS diploma, I am betting they never tried. Every vocational counselor will tell you, lack of a HS diploma is one of the most serious impediments to securing employment.

I would argue that this is why we need better VoTech programs in FCPS instead of looking to get people to graduate with D's.

and how do you decide who gets votech instead of a college track?

In Europe exams and intelligent tests are given at about 8th grade. Those who do not do well are not on the college track.

Ah, yes, the “if it’s Europe it must be better” trope. Hint: It’s not.

Right…have you compared our schools to say, schools in Germany where they do this? I’ve hosted exchange students 3X and as freshman they were all so much farther ahead (especially in math) it was really sad.

Agree. It is better because it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those rules are offensive to students who actually prioritize their schoolwork.

Only if you think the entire point of school is to rank students.

If you think it’s to get the most kids possible a basic level of knowledge so they can be productive members of society, it’s not.

Another part of school is learning to be a productive citizen who not only has a basic level of knowledge but also has a work ethic, knows how to meet expectations, handle deadlines, etc. A basic level of functioning.

Ranking students is a way to bring in people's natural competitiveness in order to help them learn these skills, it's not the end goal.

This. Plus, like it or not, ranking matters for colleges. So yeah, if some slacker or disinterested kid has a shot at the same schools as a kid who actually did the work and didt have to do constant retakes- not ok.

The idea that giving a high F on an assignment instead of a low F is going to make Lazy Larlo into your kid's competition is nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those rules are offensive to students who actually prioritize their schoolwork.

Only if you think the entire point of school is to rank students.

If you think it’s to get the most kids possible a basic level of knowledge so they can be productive members of society, it’s not.

Another part of school is learning to be a productive citizen who not only has a basic level of knowledge but also has a work ethic, knows how to meet expectations, handle deadlines, etc. A basic level of functioning.

Ranking students is a way to bring in people's natural competitiveness in order to help them learn these skills, it's not the end goal.

This. Plus, like it or not, ranking matters for colleges. So yeah, if some slacker or disinterested kid has a shot at the same schools as a kid who actually did the work and didt have to do constant retakes- not ok.

The point of public school is for kids to master the material. It's not a race. Should someone who takes 2 or 3 times to pass their drivers test not get a license? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Part of reason I left FCPS. Lucky for me, my new district has now changed to 50 percent for nothing as well! Huge disservice to our students.