"I thought 50% for no work was okay and I was wrong"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Agree, but in a way, tests are becoming like supervised homework given the retakes.

This gets thrown around a lot. I’d like to see the evidence of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Agree, but in a way, tests are becoming like supervised homework given the retakes.

This gets thrown around a lot. I’d like to see the evidence of that.

My FCPS HS junior and senior have no math retakes allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

To be clear, there seem to be three groups of kids using the automatic 50% policy: The kids who are failing but might be able to dig themselves out of the hole with 50%, the A students who don't feel like doing homework but still know the material, and the kids who would have had a low A or high B if they did the homework and spent more time learning the material, but instead skip a lot of the homework because they're irresponsible teens and think they don't need to do it, and then get low Bs or Cs on the tests. A lot of the arguments in favor of the 50% policy are focusing on the first group and not the third.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

To be clear, there seem to be three groups of kids using the automatic 50% policy: The kids who are failing but might be able to dig themselves out of the hole with 50%, the A students who don't feel like doing homework but still know the material, and the kids who would have had a low A or high B if they did the homework and spent more time learning the material, but instead skip a lot of the homework because they're irresponsible teens and think they don't need to do it, and then get low Bs or Cs on the tests. A lot of the arguments in favor of the 50% policy are focusing on the first group and not the third.

And does this policy even help the first group learn? Doubtful.

[Anonymous]

The letter printed here by Wakefield HS teachers against equity grading is really persuasive:

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/va-teachers-push-back-on-equity-proposal-to-abolish-some-grades-late-homework-penalties

As the parent of an incoming middle schooler, I am honestly appalled that schools would upend instruction for something that is basically a trend promulgated, by as far as I can tell, one dude trying to cash in on the word “equity.” I believe that teachers on an individual level care about learning, but these unfounded experiements in restructuring schools seem to really threaten the fundamentals. I don’t understand why this happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

If teens make poor decisions, then why don't the parents do something about it? If teens have missing assignments, then parents should help their children craft a plan for making up the work in addition to meting out punishments (taking away time for phone surfing or video games) until the work is sudmitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Agree, but in a way, tests are becoming like supervised homework given the retakes.

This gets thrown around a lot. I’d like to see the evidence of that.

It varies by school and even by teacher which is a problem. Some teachers don't offer retakes, some offer one or two retakes, some offer retakes using a second test version while others use the original test, some offer unlimited retakes. The variability is a problem. However, in many presentations, unlimited test retakes is the ultimate goal. If a student keeps retaking a test over and over, it's like doing a computerized homework assignment where you keep inputting the answer until you get it right.

Rationale for Unlimited Retakes
Feldman, Grading for Equity (p175):
"If a student's mastery of the content is important for success on future content, then you might want to give retakes until students have demonstrated necessary understanding."

Fungibility of Tests/Homework/Etc.
Grading for Equity (p168):
"For example, if a student has a terrible performance on a final exam because of anxiety or other circumstances but the teacher determined that the students showed standards mastery in the review exercise (a formative assessment) the day before, the teacher could make that prior formative assessment into a summative assessment -- POOF! -- and consider that evidence as more validly reflecting the student's level of content knowledge. The summative/formative assessment division isn't fixed in equitable grading; it's flexible."

The latter sentence sums it up. In Feldman's version of equitable grading, teachers have flexibility. They can use exercises in place of tests, allow students to retake tests without limit which effectively allows tests to morph into homework, etc. Basically the teacher can cite metrics for whatever grade they want. Schools are not yet at this full-on version of equitable grading. However, some teachers do implement aspects of the above. There is no standardization at present which is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

If teens make poor decisions, then why don't the parents do something about it? If teens have missing assignments, then parents should help their children craft a plan for making up the work in addition to meting out punishments (taking away time for phone surfing or video games) until the work is sudmitted.

+100
If a teen is too immature to complete their assignments, then the parent should check SIS every Friday afternoon. Any missing assignments and the teen should not be able to do anything fun over the weekend until the assignments are completed. If some teachers do not update SIS appropriately, then email those teachers directly and ask for a status update every week. If parents are unwilling to do this or perhaps need extra help, then they should consider enrolling their child in the Strategies for Success elective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

If teens make poor decisions, then why don't the parents do something about it? If teens have missing assignments, then parents should help their children craft a plan for making up the work in addition to meting out punishments (taking away time for phone surfing or video games) until the work is sudmitted.

+100
If a teen is too immature to complete their assignments, then the parent should check SIS every Friday afternoon. Any missing assignments and the teen should not be able to do anything fun over the weekend until the assignments are completed. If some teachers do not update SIS appropriately, then email those teachers directly and ask for a status update every week. If parents are unwilling to do this or perhaps need extra help, then they should consider enrolling their child in the Strategies for Success elective.

None of this justifies giving 50% for missing work. If the kid has a zero for missing work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

If teens make poor decisions, then why don't the parents do something about it? If teens have missing assignments, then parents should help their children craft a plan for making up the work in addition to meting out punishments (taking away time for phone surfing or video games) until the work is sudmitted.

+100
If a teen is too immature to complete their assignments, then the parent should check SIS every Friday afternoon. Any missing assignments and the teen should not be able to do anything fun over the weekend until the assignments are completed. If some teachers do not update SIS appropriately, then email those teachers directly and ask for a status update every week. If parents are unwilling to do this or perhaps need extra help, then they should consider enrolling their child in the Strategies for Success elective.

None of this justifies giving 50% for missing work. If the kid has a zero for missing work.

Ack. Cut off. If the kid has a zero rather than half credit for missing work, can’t the parents just as easily intervene?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

If teens make poor decisions, then why don't the parents do something about it? If teens have missing assignments, then parents should help their children craft a plan for making up the work in addition to meting out punishments (taking away time for phone surfing or video games) until the work is sudmitted.

This. Parents should step in or accept that they will fail. I 100% understand and get the poor decision-making. But the end result should not be to prop them up artificially but help them succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those saying that their kids are receiving zeroes in FCPS.....is that class/school using a 4.0 scale? If so, they absolutely can receive a zero. The 50% rule only applies to those schools using a 100 point grading scale. It is very difficult to recover from a zero when using 100 point scale. That is a lot to overcome and will destroy any motivation to try.

Not saying this is a perfect solution but as others have said, the A students are not getting hurt by this policy and it gives the lower students a fighting chance and a reason to keep trying.

-FCPS teacher

I honestly think it helps the A student. A smart kid can do the math and decide to skip homework that will have little impact on their grade and spend the time on essays or projects that will. That's how I dealt with a packed schedules in high school and I still managed to graduate third in my class. I think there is value to teaching kids to prioritize strategically- it's a skill that they will need to learn at some point. The guaranteed 50% makes it even easier to take that approach.

Previous college professor...this is exactly what I am saying. But in spite of all the bellyaching, a lot of people like grading everything because 1. they don't find value in doing work unless it "counts and 2. Grading those assignments inflates grades. A student who bombs a test or essay can do better if every assignment counts for something. But that doesn't mean they have learned anything,

High school students are not college students. They NEED the incentive of the homework “counting”
so they will actually do it and learn. This is pretty basic behavioral psychology. Making the entire grade contingent on one high-stakes test or essay also seems sort of the opposite of good pedagogy, and rewards a certain type of learner.

Homework "counting" is an example of extrinsic motivation. We need to move toward intrinsic motivation for students.

do we? lol. how about your job move towards intrinsic motivation and stop paying you?

what we actually need to do is figure out how kids gain mastery, and do that.

Personally, I do not think that school equates to a student's "job." I think school should be about learning and trying to instill a desire to learn. But with all that said, ultimately, inflating grades with highly weighted homework and classwork assignments is not good educational practice.

You’re missing the entire point. Homework is supposed to teach. It’s not supposed to be “inflating” meaningless paperwork. And the high-stakes test at the end of the semester that counts for 80% of the grade under your system is the opposite of behaviorally shaping intrinsic learning.

Homework is supposed to teach... yes. Homework is supposed to help students gain mastery... yes. Homework is assigned... yes. But we should not expect homework to count much in the final course grade. The majority of the final grade should be summative projects, papers, assessments, etc.

DP. Well, yes, but the problem is that you're expecting high school kids to have the maturity to recognize that they need to do the homework and the discipline to sit down and do it. When it counts for almost nothing, a lot of kids just won't do it. Then, they fail to learn the material and fail the assessments. College kids are perfectly capable of handling classes where homework is simply recommended and everything rests on test performance. High schoolers need a lot more handholding and coddling. If having homework count as enough of the grade encourages kids to actually do it, and thus actually learn the material, it's better to handle things that way than it is to set a lot of kids up for failure.

Homework does count. It counts for 10% of the overall grade. If you do not think that is enough "encouragement," then how much do you think homework should be worth?

If kids are given 50% even when they don't turn the homework in, then it actually counts for 5% of the grade. 5% of the grade is not enough encouragement, and a 50% free points policy is likely to cause some kids who otherwise would have done the homework to skip it, thus learning less.

Then those students do poorly on the test and have to relearn and retake it. Natural consequence, no? And perhaps parents should discuss and take away privileges at home for poor acaademic behavior. Coddling and handholding should be in elementary and middle school, not so much in high school.

Right there is the crux of the disagreement. Many teens are unwise and have poor decision making skills. They're not ready for that much freedom.

The best resolution to this would be to ask the teachers whether the students generally learned more and did better in the old system, where they were held accountable for homework, or whether they're ultimately learning more in the new system, with minimal accountability for homework and lots of retakes.

If teens make poor decisions, then why don't the parents do something about it? If teens have missing assignments, then parents should help their children craft a plan for making up the work in addition to meting out punishments (taking away time for phone surfing or video games) until the work is sudmitted.

Or, here’s a crazy idea, how about the school be the entity to
impose consequences for not doing homework? Like say, a bad grade? Crazy I know!!!