Help me not murder my 3.5yo at bedtime tonight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - yes melatonin seems to fully solve the problem. But it sounds like the side effects of long term use are unknown and concerning in some animal studies. But side effects of him having chronic sleep deprivation is also real. I will do melatonin when he’s sick and particularly struggling then try to wean him off and it all goes back to hell.

I’ve bedtimes between 645-730. He often doesn’t give up to 9pm either way

We were in a similar place with our 3.5 yo and we’ve been using melatonin for a few months now. In that time period we did identify a few health issues that probably stem from allergies (we’re waiting for the allergist appointment now), and sleep through the night seems to have improved. Breathing was definitely an issue, which we didn’t realize. So he was overtired because he wasn’t sleeping well at night.

We’re planning to try stopping the melatonin again starting next weekend now that the health issues seem to be under control. Our pediatrician recommended a sleep study as the next step if the old behaviors return.

We also have an older kid who sleeps fine, and though I think there was some separation anxiety with the 3yo, he did not settle with us in the room and often did not come out of the room - just stayed in and changed clothes a million times, tried to climb the furniture, pulled everything out of drawers and shelves, stripped sheets off the bed…. Anything to not sleep.

All that to say, it might be time to talk to your pediatrician if you haven’t don’t that already.

Also we tried adjusting bedtime later and he just kept himself up later. He was also acting very sleepy during the day, and his behavior was atrocious by late afternoon. He often put his head on the table at dinner. These are things that helped us realize that the issue was not too early bedtime - it was not enough sleep.

Op here - sounds very similar. Yes he’s definitely tired, he lays on the floor regularly pushing cars around. Maybe his body clock is naturally 9pm-8am but that’s not feasible (and I don’t think it is that, the more tired he is the more he actually sleeps) but we can’t let him sleep until 8am so he’s overtired. I’ve talked to ped and they suggested allergist or sleep study next (have already done ent as well as OT), but for some reason I’m hesitating on those. It’s like the tiny amount of melatonin just gets his actively drowsy enough to not fight and get the 11 hours of sleep he needs and without that he will use every last drop of energy he has fighting letting his body relax

I'm not a fan of melatonin for the rest of these kids childhoods, but why don't you use it for a month and then wean him off it? It may help with the routine and resetting his body

[Anonymous]

Seriously- add the nap back in and move his bedtime later. I’ve been through it. It works. This is common when people take the nap too early. Overtired kids who won’t go to bed. I get that you think he’s too old for a nap, but he’s not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you posters really close the door and leave your 3 year old alone to fall asleep? Even my 8 years does not tolerate falling asleep with the door closed. She wants to hear me nearby and doesn't want to be in the room alone. Y'all have very stoic children to close the door at bedtime.

Yup. Have done this since they were babies in their cribs. Neither kid can sleep with a grownup in the room. I tuck them in and say good night and leave the room and close the door. Its not locked so they can get out to pee ets. Kids are 3 and 6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - yes melatonin seems to fully solve the problem. But it sounds like the side effects of long term use are unknown and concerning in some animal studies. But side effects of him having chronic sleep deprivation is also real. I will do melatonin when he’s sick and particularly struggling then try to wean him off and it all goes back to hell.

I’ve bedtimes between 645-730. He often doesn’t give up to 9pm either way

We were in a similar place with our 3.5 yo and we’ve been using melatonin for a few months now. In that time period we did identify a few health issues that probably stem from allergies (we’re waiting for the allergist appointment now), and sleep through the night seems to have improved. Breathing was definitely an issue, which we didn’t realize. So he was overtired because he wasn’t sleeping well at night.

We’re planning to try stopping the melatonin again starting next weekend now that the health issues seem to be under control. Our pediatrician recommended a sleep study as the next step if the old behaviors return.

We also have an older kid who sleeps fine, and though I think there was some separation anxiety with the 3yo, he did not settle with us in the room and often did not come out of the room - just stayed in and changed clothes a million times, tried to climb the furniture, pulled everything out of drawers and shelves, stripped sheets off the bed…. Anything to not sleep.

All that to say, it might be time to talk to your pediatrician if you haven’t don’t that already.

Also we tried adjusting bedtime later and he just kept himself up later. He was also acting very sleepy during the day, and his behavior was atrocious by late afternoon. He often put his head on the table at dinner. These are things that helped us realize that the issue was not too early bedtime - it was not enough sleep.

Op here - sounds very similar. Yes he’s definitely tired, he lays on the floor regularly pushing cars around. Maybe his body clock is naturally 9pm-8am but that’s not feasible (and I don’t think it is that, the more tired he is the more he actually sleeps) but we can’t let him sleep until 8am so he’s overtired. I’ve talked to ped and they suggested allergist or sleep study next (have already done ent as well as OT), but for some reason I’m hesitating on those. It’s like the tiny amount of melatonin just gets his actively drowsy enough to not fight and get the 11 hours of sleep he needs and without that he will use every last drop of energy he has fighting letting his body relax

I'm not a fan of melatonin for the rest of these kids childhoods, but why don't you use it for a month and then wean him off it? It may help with the routine and resetting his body

This. You can also fake the melatonin after a while to get the placebo effect of the kid thinking they are getting something to help them sleep. We do this. My kids get a "sleepy gummy" every night. Its actual melatonin maybe once a week at this point. The rest of the time its a gummy vitamin.

[Anonymous]

Stick with the melatonin!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

3yos need 11-13 hour of sleep. He needs to go to bed by 7:30 to be in that range with the logistics of our lives

This is just an average and does not apply to all children, I've seen children who needed the full 12 hours and others who could easily get away with just 6, With that said i've never dealt with this issue with a 4 year old but i have with a 10 year old and i lost that fight so all i can say is good luck.

LOL agreed. Both of my kids (2 and 7) have always been 10 hour night sleepers. The younger one does need a nap though.

[Anonymous]

I like the idea of a placebo gummy!

If your child is laying his head down he’s tired. Don’t believe the posters that say to keep him up. You need him to relax and start his resting around 7- even if he doesn’t fall asleep til 8.

I think it’s partly an overtired thing and partly a control thing- he’s calling the shots at bedtime and shouldn’t (and actually doesn’t want to).

Don’t pathologize this by going the route of a sleep study and specialists.

Keep the early bedtime, do melatonin when you need to, and stay firm on no interaction after bedtime. This will shift and you’ll be past this soon. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I think the bedtime is too early. Mine goes to be at 8/8:30. I start bedtime routine at 6:30. We eat dinner, we start winding down for about 30 minutes with tv ( only time he watches it) or books while my husband or I put 1 year down, bath, and then bed. He will sometimes get up but we tell him he can read books or play with a toy in bed, but it’s bedtime and he can’t come out of the room. He will sometimes sing to himself or look at a book ( he has a little light) but almost always falls asleep within 10 minutes of that.

Does she get enough active time? Our son is in preschool and we take him to the park or let him run around outside or in the basement until dinner time. He has a lot of energy and needs to get it out. Maybe try a later bedtime and really wear him out before bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

3yos need 11-13 hour of sleep. He needs to go to bed by 7:30 to be in that range with the logistics of our lives

Again, it’s not about “the logistics of your lives.” The bedtime is too early. It’s not working. Change it. Or, you know, don’t change it and just keep complaining.