Help me not murder my 3.5yo at bedtime tonight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Doesn’t matter that you have other kids. 7:30 is too early for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

3yos need 11-13 hour of sleep. He needs to go to bed by 7:30 to be in that range with the logistics of our lives

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

3yos need 11-13 hour of sleep. He needs to go to bed by 7:30 to be in that range with the logistics of our lives

Put him to bed in his clothes for the next day and let him eat breakfast in the car. I think you have identified the issues--he is not tired when you are trying to put him to bed--so you need to start there and work the logistics around it. You cannot just force a kid onto the schedule that works for the logistics of your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you posters really close the door and leave your 3 year old alone to fall asleep? Even my 8 years does not tolerate falling asleep with the door closed. She wants to hear me nearby and doesn't want to be in the room alone. Y'all have very stoic children to close the door at bedtime.

Huh? I have 3 kids. Even the 12 month old gets laid in the crib and they watch me walk out and shut the door.

Dh and I also went to sleep at night by ourselves with the door shut. It’s not safe to leave a door open while sleeping. Google the fire videos with leaving kids doors open. It can save their lives having it shut.

[Anonymous]

I agree with posters saying he’s not tired. I had a similar issue with my 2yo when I transitioned her out of her crib — our bedtime routine totally collapsed and she was suddenly up way later than ever before. It turned out I was trying to put her to bed way too early which made her cranky which m made her act out which got her hyped up and then she would not go to sleep until 9 or sometimes 10. I had to shift her bedtime till later than it should be (I used 9 for us) to reset the routine. After a few weeks where she actually went straight to sleep without drama, I started oozing the bedtime up and now she goes down between 8 and 8:30 most days she naps and it’s not a disaster any more. You may have to combine bedtime routines with other kids which is annoying but clearly what’s happening now isn’t working.

[Anonymous]

What time do the other children go to bed? Are they being noisy and keeping the youngest up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

3yos need 11-13 hour of sleep. He needs to go to bed by 7:30 to be in that range with the logistics of our lives

Does YOUR 3yo need that sleep? We have a now 15 yo who has never fit the sleeps norms. Granted it’s been ok as a tween teen, because I don’t have to put him to bed, but when I stopped fighting against HIS sleep needs when he was younger, life got better.

Your choices are, based on your responses:

1. Melatonin each night

2. Let him go to sleep at his natural time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - yes melatonin seems to fully solve the problem. But it sounds like the side effects of long term use are unknown and concerning in some animal studies. But side effects of him having chronic sleep deprivation is also real. I will do melatonin when he’s sick and particularly struggling then try to wean him off and it all goes back to hell.

I’ve bedtimes between 645-730. He often doesn’t give up to 9pm either way

We were in a similar place with our 3.5 yo and we’ve been using melatonin for a few months now. In that time period we did identify a few health issues that probably stem from allergies (we’re waiting for the allergist appointment now), and sleep through the night seems to have improved. Breathing was definitely an issue, which we didn’t realize. So he was overtired because he wasn’t sleeping well at night.

We’re planning to try stopping the melatonin again starting next weekend now that the health issues seem to be under control. Our pediatrician recommended a sleep study as the next step if the old behaviors return.

We also have an older kid who sleeps fine, and though I think there was some separation anxiety with the 3yo, he did not settle with us in the room and often did not come out of the room - just stayed in and changed clothes a million times, tried to climb the furniture, pulled everything out of drawers and shelves, stripped sheets off the bed…. Anything to not sleep.

All that to say, it might be time to talk to your pediatrician if you haven’t don’t that already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - yes melatonin seems to fully solve the problem. But it sounds like the side effects of long term use are unknown and concerning in some animal studies. But side effects of him having chronic sleep deprivation is also real. I will do melatonin when he’s sick and particularly struggling then try to wean him off and it all goes back to hell.

I’ve bedtimes between 645-730. He often doesn’t give up to 9pm either way

We were in a similar place with our 3.5 yo and we’ve been using melatonin for a few months now. In that time period we did identify a few health issues that probably stem from allergies (we’re waiting for the allergist appointment now), and sleep through the night seems to have improved. Breathing was definitely an issue, which we didn’t realize. So he was overtired because he wasn’t sleeping well at night.

We’re planning to try stopping the melatonin again starting next weekend now that the health issues seem to be under control. Our pediatrician recommended a sleep study as the next step if the old behaviors return.

We also have an older kid who sleeps fine, and though I think there was some separation anxiety with the 3yo, he did not settle with us in the room and often did not come out of the room - just stayed in and changed clothes a million times, tried to climb the furniture, pulled everything out of drawers and shelves, stripped sheets off the bed…. Anything to not sleep.

All that to say, it might be time to talk to your pediatrician if you haven’t don’t that already.

Also we tried adjusting bedtime later and he just kept himself up later. He was also acting very sleepy during the day, and his behavior was atrocious by late afternoon. He often put his head on the table at dinner. These are things that helped us realize that the issue was not too early bedtime - it was not enough sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - yes melatonin seems to fully solve the problem. But it sounds like the side effects of long term use are unknown and concerning in some animal studies. But side effects of him having chronic sleep deprivation is also real. I will do melatonin when he’s sick and particularly struggling then try to wean him off and it all goes back to hell.

I’ve bedtimes between 645-730. He often doesn’t give up to 9pm either way

We were in a similar place with our 3.5 yo and we’ve been using melatonin for a few months now. In that time period we did identify a few health issues that probably stem from allergies (we’re waiting for the allergist appointment now), and sleep through the night seems to have improved. Breathing was definitely an issue, which we didn’t realize. So he was overtired because he wasn’t sleeping well at night.

We’re planning to try stopping the melatonin again starting next weekend now that the health issues seem to be under control. Our pediatrician recommended a sleep study as the next step if the old behaviors return.

We also have an older kid who sleeps fine, and though I think there was some separation anxiety with the 3yo, he did not settle with us in the room and often did not come out of the room - just stayed in and changed clothes a million times, tried to climb the furniture, pulled everything out of drawers and shelves, stripped sheets off the bed…. Anything to not sleep.

All that to say, it might be time to talk to your pediatrician if you haven’t don’t that already.

Also we tried adjusting bedtime later and he just kept himself up later. He was also acting very sleepy during the day, and his behavior was atrocious by late afternoon. He often put his head on the table at dinner. These are things that helped us realize that the issue was not too early bedtime - it was not enough sleep.

Op here - sounds very similar. Yes he’s definitely tired, he lays on the floor regularly pushing cars around. Maybe his body clock is naturally 9pm-8am but that’s not feasible (and I don’t think it is that, the more tired he is the more he actually sleeps) but we can’t let him sleep until 8am so he’s overtired. I’ve talked to ped and they suggested allergist or sleep study next (have already done ent as well as OT), but for some reason I’m hesitating on those. It’s like the tiny amount of melatonin just gets his actively drowsy enough to not fight and get the 11 hours of sleep he needs and without that he will use every last drop of energy he has fighting letting his body relax

[Anonymous]

Solidarity with you. Have tried all the things listed and only melatonin works consistently.

[Anonymous]

Since this is anonymous I will admit I give my kids melatonin every night. They would otherwise be up until 11pm. 4 and 6 y.o. That would be my choice OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you posters really close the door and leave your 3 year old alone to fall asleep? Even my 8 years does not tolerate falling asleep with the door closed. She wants to hear me nearby and doesn't want to be in the room alone. Y'all have very stoic children to close the door at bedtime.

Absolutely. I’ve always closed the doors to my kids’ room. Never once left door open while they went to bed. If they ever asked I would have said no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are expecting the child to sleep for 13 hours straight?!? That is a very early bedtime. He is not tired… start bedtime at 8:30. Be firm and follow through.

No - I expect him to go to bed at 730 and get up at 630. 630 is the easiest start to our day and when he gets up when he falls asleep at 7/730. I tried earlier in case he was over tired. I can’t just do later than 730because I have other kids to get to bed and because 645 is the absolute latest he can get up for a not hectic morning (he’s a slow eater, slow to get dressed etc).

Honestly, the problem is you. That time is way too early. He is not going to sleep fast because he is not tired. You expect him to lay in bed for two hours until he finally falls asleep? Put him to bed later and change your routine. He can get dressed with a timer, get dressed the night before and sleep in the clothes, eat a quick and easy breakfast. You just sound lazy.

3yos need 11-13 hour of sleep. He needs to go to bed by 7:30 to be in that range with the logistics of our lives

This is just an average and does not apply to all children, I've seen children who needed the full 12 hours and others who could easily get away with just 6, With that said i've never dealt with this issue with a 4 year old but i have with a 10 year old and i lost that fight so all i can say is good luck.