Science says: never get rid of AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone knows this. But it's who you're trying to support- top learners benefit from AAP, but taking top learners out of gen ed hurts the bottom learners.

How so?

But why would you want to hurt the top learners?

What do the top learners owe to the bottom learners?

Why should *public* education help the top learners at the expense of those at the bottom? If you don’t like it you can do private or hire a tutor.

Ever volunteered at an “equity” class, where there are four different groups of learning levels because of this mentality? The teachers burn out fast and leave the school. Ever wonder why *your* ES can’t seem to keep a gened teacher but the AAP teachers stay forever? Ever see the top learners teach a class while a teacher cries at her desk?

Equity classes are so hard. Those bottom level kids struggle. They know they are behind. They (the kids) cry in class (I saw this as a volunteer.) the top level kids learn nothing and end up thinking school is pointless.

AAP classes aren’t just to “tutor” smart kids. It’s to give the kids that are Gen Ed the ability to thrive in school. To find joy in school. When the comparison is in separate classes, the Gen Ed kids thrive more too because they don’t find school so hard and don’t see the comparison as starkly. Comparison is the thief of joy- and Gen Ed kids feel this even more acutely when they are in the same class as AAP kids.

That’s the whole point of tracking. I know it sucks to have to teach your kids at home- but if you really want to help your kids do better in school- you have to push them at home with workbooks and enrich in every way possible.

And that is why some high achievers are in AAP. Even the laziest high achieving parent will force their kids to do summer workbooks. And if your kid is doing the workbooks and still isn’t in AAP- then please get a tutor. If your kid isn’t doing workbooks- they stay in Gen Ed.

This is how it has worked from when I went to school 30 years ago. The parents with kids in AAP don’t share that they force their kids to do more workbooks and homework after school- they assume you are doing that too. They do three sports- because they assume that’s what you are doing too. They don’t do church. (Ever noticed that AAP kids tend to have sports on Sunday?)

All of this because it’s not the schools job to teach your kids at home. Just like it’s not your job to teach at the school or make the policies at school.

If high achieving kids are separated out, this is a good thing. Make the parents do more at home if they want more than Gen Ed. But Gen Ed is basically what you are going to get in private and in any other state public- because you aren’t the ones supporting at home. Your kid won’t be in the special class. Because you aren’t supporting them at home.

Stop blaming the schools. Stop blaming the teachers. If your kid is in Gen Ed- it’s a good fit for them. But if you want more- you do the work at home or pay for private.

Finally- so many transplants come here and wonder why they gifted kid from Arkansas is in special Ed here. We high a higher population of type A overachievers here. That’s why you can’t just do nothing at home and have a gifted kid.

so you agree that AAP is more representative of kids whose parents have more resources than anything else? I'm asking as an AAP parent.

[Anonymous]

Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

Agree!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

We need more diversity in AAP - many studies have shown that students learn more if they are in a diverse environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

We need more diversity in AAP - many studies have shown that students learn more if they are in a diverse environment.

The equity report already showed that URMs are being admitted to AAP with significantly lower test scores than white or Asian kids. Although the equity report focused on race, it's reasonable to assume that lower income kids are likewise being admitted with lower test scores, since the selection committee has all of that information and since increasing FARMS kids is a priority. What more do you want them to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

We need more diversity in AAP - many studies have shown that students learn more if they are in a diverse environment.

The URM at Title 1 schools are not going to be be bussed to different Centers where most of the kids are White and Asian. You are not going to change the races of the kids at the high SES and low SES schools so adding more URM to AAP is not going to lead to more diverse classrooms because the kids are not at the same schools or in the same pyramids.

This is going to be the case for near Title 1 schools as well.

You can talk about trying to make sure that the top 10% of the kids at each ES is included in a LLIV program and allow those kids to push each other but that is not going to change the level of diversity in their classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

And even smarter people understand that opportunity hoarding isn’t great for our overall community.

Limited tracking - by clusters and only in identified areas of giftedness would be better for our community than AAP.

- smarter & wealthier than you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

Agree!

Yes, we know this is true because we tell ourselves this all the time!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

Those kids don't exist aap is for the smartest just like tj

Feel free to prove me wrong aap and tk bend over backwards to find lower income and urm students through targeted outreach lower entry scores etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

We need more diversity in AAP - many studies have shown that students learn more if they are in a diverse environment.

This is one of the reasons I love our center school. Its feeders include both wealthy, majority-white schools and Title I schools that are majority-minority. My son's AAP class includes kids from across the economic spectrum. I know for many centers this isn't the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

And even smarter people understand that opportunity hoarding isn’t great for our overall community.

Limited tracking - by clusters and only in identified areas of giftedness would be better for our community than AAP.

- smarter & wealthier than you

And ruder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone knows this. But it's who you're trying to support- top learners benefit from AAP, but taking top learners out of gen ed hurts the bottom learners.

How so?

But why would you want to hurt the top learners?

What do the top learners owe to the bottom learners?

Why should *public* education help the top learners at the expense of those at the bottom? If you don’t like it you can do private or hire a tutor.

Ever volunteered at an “equity” class, where there are four different groups of learning levels because of this mentality? The teachers burn out fast and leave the school. Ever wonder why *your* ES can’t seem to keep a gened teacher but the AAP teachers stay forever? Ever see the top learners teach a class while a teacher cries at her desk?

Equity classes are so hard. Those bottom level kids struggle. They know they are behind. They (the kids) cry in class (I saw this as a volunteer.) the top level kids learn nothing and end up thinking school is pointless.

+100

AAP classes aren’t just to “tutor” smart kids. It’s to give the kids that are Gen Ed the ability to thrive in school. To find joy in school. When the comparison is in separate classes, the Gen Ed kids thrive more too because they don’t find school so hard and don’t see the comparison as starkly. Comparison is the thief of joy- and Gen Ed kids feel this even more acutely when they are in the same class as AAP kids.

That’s the whole point of tracking. I know it sucks to have to teach your kids at home- but if you really want to help your kids do better in school- you have to push them at home with workbooks and enrich in every way possible.

And that is why some high achievers are in AAP. Even the laziest high achieving parent will force their kids to do summer workbooks. And if your kid is doing the workbooks and still isn’t in AAP- then please get a tutor. If your kid isn’t doing workbooks- they stay in Gen Ed.

This is how it has worked from when I went to school 30 years ago. The parents with kids in AAP don’t share that they force their kids to do more workbooks and homework after school- they assume you are doing that too. They do three sports- because they assume that’s what you are doing too. They don’t do church. (Ever noticed that AAP kids tend to have sports on Sunday?)

All of this because it’s not the schools job to teach your kids at home. Just like it’s not your job to teach at the school or make the policies at school.

If high achieving kids are separated out, this is a good thing. Make the parents do more at home if they want more than Gen Ed. But Gen Ed is basically what you are going to get in private and in any other state public- because you aren’t the ones supporting at home. Your kid won’t be in the special class. Because you aren’t supporting them at home.

Stop blaming the schools. Stop blaming the teachers. If your kid is in Gen Ed- it’s a good fit for them. But if you want more- you do the work at home or pay for private.

Finally- so many transplants come here and wonder why they gifted kid from Arkansas is in special Ed here. We high a higher population of type A overachievers here. That’s why you can’t just do nothing at home and have a gifted kid.

This is funny. My AAP kid (tested in pool on NNAT and Cogat) has never touched a workbook outside of school. She has never struggled with school work and I will never "enrich" with workbooks and outside academics that simply take away from the important parts of childhood like free range play and being bored.