$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

OP here. I've read everyone's responses, and I think the best thing to do for me is to leave my current school and wait until I'm 24 to transfer to another school (maybe that's Smith, maybe it's somewhere else) so I can graduate as cheaply as possible. Thanks.

And yes, Ivies do have tremendous benefits in terms of opportunities post-grad. But that's ONLY if I am a high performer at my current Ivy, which I know I won't be because my school makes me miserable. I am way too depressed and unhappy at Columbia to network, make relationships, and truly make the best out of my experience there. I'd be much happier at a cheap state school or 7 sisters school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please do not take on 80k for your misery just to appease your parents. Do you currently have access to counseling services through your school? Even a few sessions might be able to help you make a plan to move forward. Do you have any friends or other contacts who you might be able to talk to about your situation?

I work in college access. If you were one of my students, I would encourage you to at least take a leave for a semester so you can figure out what you want to do. Don't take out these loans under pressure. Get a place with roommates, get a regular people job, start exploring your options. Check out your state school options. You really don't want to get locked into a situation where you have to work at a job you hate and in which you feel like a failure just to pay loans that you didn't want to take in the first place!

I hate to tell you, as a state school graduate, not only I have to work a job that I hate, for subsequent job hops, I can only be considered for jobs similar to what I have done before.
Such rule do not apply to Ivy kids, hate finance? they run to endowment investor relations. Hate accounting? they do business dev with wealth management firms. Hate their hedge fun job? Some lobbyist firm will take them right in.
The competition is cut throat for us for life. and people are more brutal. If you are ivy, your managers don't want to steamroll you because they expect you to be high up in another organization later on. They will take out their anger on us instead.

As an ivy league graduate, this is true for rich kids with broad family connections who use those connections to get hired, and possibly using family money to subsudize their incomes. If that's not the world you're from, and you're not actively networking to build relationships in those communities, this will not be your experience. And even if you are working to build those connections, it still might not be your experience.

Exactly. None of this magic is happening for me.

[Anonymous]

As a parent, I would only consider paying full tuition for the top 10-or-so universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

This.

OP here. I did this to my parents, and then they just told me that they were going to cut off all contact with me. Honestly, they are not in any sort of financial shape to take out Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC (they're in their early 50s with less than $500k saved up for retirement and have $400k left on their mortgage).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finish it out OP. 80k won’t mean very much in 10 years. You’re clearly qualified enough to get a job at a big tech firm — meaning your earning potential will outstrip that 80k very soon. Part of that earning potential could very well depend on that Ivy degree. I’ve found job interviews significantly easier with a degree on my resume.

Your bigger issue is your misery, but 3 semesters is not very long in the grand scheme of things. Please try to take classes that you want to take (art, literature, film — whatever calls to you!). If your parents are no longer paying, that should alleviate guilt about taking what you want at school and doing what you want to do. After school, try to pay off those loans as soon as you can. A boring job is not the end of the work. A boring job can enable you to do things you enjoy doing outside of work. Focus on the happy in your life, and best of luck.

OP here. I thought this too when I took my internship this summer in tech sales at a FAANG. It turns out that having a job I hate also affects my happiness outside of work -- being miserable at my job makes me unable to rest, sleep, or be happy in my waking hours outside of work. Also, if I take out $80k in loans, I'll have to work way more than 40 hrs/week to pay it off -- leaving me with little to no free time post-grad.

If I didn't have the threat of loans hanging over my head (and currently, I don't have any student loans in my name at all; I would have to take them out for my last 3 semesters at Columbia), I'd go into a low-paying but meaningful job in either publishing or environmental education. Hating a 40 hr/week job, to me, is like hating almost all of your waking hours, so I think I'm fine going to a cheaper, less prestigious school and taking on less debt so I can pursue something that makes me genuinely happy instead of hating myself at FAANG or MBB or BB IB or law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried callig the school to try to negotiate? You’re clearly smart and articulate so perhaps there’s a scholarship the could offer to offset some of the additional unexpected debt?

Whatever you do, I wish you well! My parents were similar and you are NOT a failure just because your strengths aren’t what they’d wish. And just reading your posts, I can see you are a thoughtful person and a great writer!

Columbia doesn't offer scholarships -- only need-based financial aid. My parents and I tried to negotiate with the financial aid office over the past month, all to no avail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please do not take on 80k for your misery just to appease your parents. Do you currently have access to counseling services through your school? Even a few sessions might be able to help you make a plan to move forward. Do you have any friends or other contacts who you might be able to talk to about your situation?

I work in college access. If you were one of my students, I would encourage you to at least take a leave for a semester so you can figure out what you want to do. Don't take out these loans under pressure. Get a place with roommates, get a regular people job, start exploring your options. Check out your state school options. You really don't want to get locked into a situation where you have to work at a job you hate and in which you feel like a failure just to pay loans that you didn't want to take in the first place!

OP here. I would love to talk to an expert who works in college access who shares my opinion (and frankly, seems more grounded than most of the commenters here). Do you mind sending me an email at [e-mail] ? No worries if you'd rather not spend your time emailing a rando, but I would really appreciate your input (as someone who has basically no guidance right now except from my controlling parents).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I remember you and responded to you in your last thread and in the anonymous email address you set up asking for further career advice. I ask this kindly: have you sought getting therapy yet? Because while the PP have good points both pro and con staying at the Ivy, I don’t think any path on the table right now (be it stay at prestigious school that makes you miserable and get $80K into debt, transfer to less prestigious state school with less/no debt, or something in between) will make you feel significantly better about yourself or your future options.

OP here. I sent you an email earlier today -- feel free to look at it whenever you have time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're asking the wrong question.

"$80k in Debt Worth It for Misery?"

No.

+1 I'm Asian, and I would not advise this if you are going to be completely miserable.

My kid wants to go to CMU for CS. I think $80K loan at CMU is worth it for CS if DC wants to be there. A CS degree from that school would pay for the $80K loan pretty easily.

Would I want DC to get an $80K loan in CS at NYU? Nope.

I'm so sorry OP for what you are going through.

[Anonymous]

OP here. My last parting words are that I think commenters here are having a hard time grasping how $80k in loans (and this would be mainly borrowed from predatory lenders like Sallie Mae or Discovery) would handicap me post-grad. I would basically have to take a high-paying career after graduation to chip away at the principle.

I think DCUM posters generally value things like money, prestige, and status much more than I do (and IMO this is part of the reason why I'm so unhappy at Columbia). I personally value doing something fulfilling even if it's not high-paying, and graduating debt-free is not conducive to that. So maybe I'll go to a Seven Sisters for free and have less opportunities than if I stayed at Columbia. But which employers are more likely to value a Columbia degree way more than a SLAC or state school degree? Probably a high-pressure, competitive, status-driven employer in finance, tech, or consulting that I'll have no desire to work for.

Peace. I realize my mentality is at odds with the social-climbing nature of the DMV. It's taken me months of therapy to get to this conclusion, but I'm glad I got to it before taking out a life-changing amount of student debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any school that’s supportive and nurturing will cost just as much, with less career possibilities.
Any school that’s going to be cheaper, likely state school, will not give you the same kind of access to jobs after school. In many ways, life in your 20-35 will be just as cut throat and misery will last longer than your current situation.
If I were you, I’d take out the loan, find the easier major in your current Ivy, and get the bare minimal grade to get that degree. Then you can find an easy job and start your life. If you hate your job, who doesn’t hate their first 3-5 jobs? You hop and doors remain open if you have that degree.

OP here. This is only true if I stay in the hamster wheel of intense, competitive jobs. But I have no desire to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In general, I’d say that the debt would be worth it —but not for you. The environment doesn’t sound like it was either healthy or pleasant for you.

In your place, I’d talk with the school about options — just so you know what they are. Can you get an extended leave of absence if you want to? What would it take to get readmitted in 5 years — should you wish to do so? Then, knowing that, make some plans for now.

Consider looking for a job. This will give you your own income, and the options that come with it — including changing your living situation should you wish to do so. It would also be a step in establishing yourself as financially independent — so future financial aid can look at your income — not that household income of your parents. Check with your school’s financial aid office to get a sense of what you need to do to establish financial independence, should you wish to do so.

Your plan to consider 7 sister schools sounds like a good one for you.

tldr: Don’t go into debt for an environment that you despise.

I’m sending good thoughts your way, OP.

I asked my school's financial aid office about this, but they said it wasn't possible. At least at my college, if you come in as a financial dependent, you must leave as a financial dependent and can't declare financial independence from your parents (unless they die or go to jail).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.