Is it really that hard to get into college?

[Anonymous]

We are starting the search process, and I’ve been struck by how many schools there are that seem aimed at average students who don’t want financial aid. It’s a market niche, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are starting the search process, and I’ve been struck by how many schools there are that seem aimed at average students who don’t want financial aid. It’s a market niche, I guess.

Do you mean merit aid, or need based aid? Tons, a large majority, in any event, of colleges give need based aid. Merit aid independent of aid is a smaller set, but many of those include the most selective universities and SLACs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming you're not a troll, yes, it is hard to get into highly rejective colleges. Especially if you are from a competitive area where your kid is competing against 30 other high stats kids from their class.

My kid with competitive (99%) stats and ECs is going to a T50 school. A very good school, but not what we had expected some 4 years ago at the start of high school. Certainly did not expect the rejections from the competitive colleges that spouse and I went to. Nor some of the schools we might once have considered a safety school.

So it's not that your kids are screwed. They'll get into a good college, and chances are it's even going to be a great college. Just don't expect the T10 colleges to be matches.

Also if your kids are better at networking and doing the sorts of things that bring attention to themselves, like emailing school representatives, then that helps.

I am not a troll. Our kids are at a well regarded public school. They have so many smart friends that sound identical to one another on paper. One kid may run track and another May play tennis but none are THAT good to be an athletic recruit.

Hope this is not a completely stupid question but do hobbies help? My kids love to ski, boat and fish. They will never be on a ski team but my son has been skiing on black since he was 9. We also go on tons of fishing trips.

Fishing, skiing and boating won’t matter to top schools unless you win a national competitive award with public recognition in them. Many applicants are captains of varsity teams and at the top tiers, even they’re a dime a dozen.

Hobbies may help at match or safety schools to give a picture of a more well-rounded applicant, maybe. More important are SAT scores (so use paid prep if you can afford it and your kid needs it), volunteer and service hours (helpful if they can be targeted toward the intended field of study), where you live (it helps to come from an underrepresented state to the school, as schools do keep track of that and often publish the geographical breakdown in future admissions materials) and, the biggest factor of all — luck, which is why the “more applications than you think you need” advice is so important.

Unless the student is a recruited athlete playing 4+ years of a sport and even being captain equates to just another regular EC. Actually, that is not correct. It equates to less as one of the most common ECs by far is sport participation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are starting the search process, and I’ve been struck by how many schools there are that seem aimed at average students who don’t want financial aid. It’s a market niche, I guess.

Do you mean merit aid, or need based aid? Tons, a large majority, in any event, of colleges give need based aid. Merit aid independent of aid is a smaller set, but many of those include the most selective universities and SLACs.

It’s a little hard out there for those in the 1200-1400 SAT range seeking merit or FA. Can’t get into need-blind schools, nor would we get much aid at the ones below the tippy top anyway. Can’t get full tuition or full rides obviously at such at SAT range. A student in that SAT range would probably feel out of place at the most affordable state schools like Salisbury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

OK, well you’d better make sure your kids are beyond exceptional, because high GPA, high class rank, sports and school clubs aren’t going to cut it anymore.

What if the one hook is URM? The child in mind is extremely accomplished academically but not great ECs. They are URM. Chances at a T30?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges yes, the rest no.

This isn't true. Colleges like UT Knoxville used to accept everybody and now I know kids who didn't make it in. Back in the day, almost everyone got in to VT. Not now.

When you hear someone didn't get in to JMU, you know something weird is going on.

[Anonymous]

I am going to commit DCUM heresy and say it's not worth it. I did not put my kids through this for college. My advice to them has been to save their hustle for the long haul. It's not where you go. It's who you are. It's a crazy grind to get most kids ready to apply to an Ivy with even a small chance of getting in, and even then its a lottery. It's not worth it to work that hard in high school for what is essentially a lottery ticket chance of getting in. The education is not substantially better than the education at hundreds of other schools. Career opportunities (except for Wall Street and Big Law) are not substantially better for kids who go to a T20. The networking is nice, but it doesn't improve your career opportunities that much, especially after your initial career entry. The impact on earnings for college selectivity is zero (See Kruger and Dale's work: https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159)

Schools that are T30 - T50 are competitive to get into, but not insanely so. Good scores and good grades and decent extracurriculars will do for those schools.

Anything below T50 is not that hard to get into. Any kid that wants to go to medical school is well served by finding a respectable undergrad program in chemistry or biology and working hard. Save the big guns for medical school. I wouldn't have my premed kid on the college admissions grind for undergrad because they are likely to burn out. Undergrad to medical school to residency is a long, LONG slog. My premed kid worked reasonably hard in high school (but did not do the crazy pre-Ivy grind) and is now doing well in our state flagshp university. People get into medical school from all sorts of schools. It's not necessary to go to a T20 school to go to medical school.

For business, it just depends. What kind of business? Do they want to start their own firm? Join a tech start up? Go to work for corporate America? Even then, you can do that without doing the crazy pre-Ivy grind. I went to a no-name LAC. My friend did a semester in Prague in college then went in the Peace Corp after she graduated. Then she got an international CPA. She's now a VP at a Fortune 100 company.

My brother was a C student in high school and went to the same no name LAC. He then got a job at a tech start up. The company did well and he made a lot of money.

Another friend from the same no name LAC and got her PhD in midlife and is now a faculty member at a state school and is ranked in the top 1% of her field for research.

[Anonymous]

You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges yes, the rest no.

This.

Your kids will go to college and be fine. There are plenty of schools out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

You lost me at Lawyer, depending if you want Big Law, but I agree with the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

You lost me at Lawyer, depending if you want Big Law, but I agree with the rest.

No, it does not matter where your lawyer went to *undergrad*.

[Anonymous]

Look, if there are huge numbers of talented, hard-working kids who are not getting into the "top" schools and therefore are going to "second-tier" schools, then at those schools, they'll be surrounded by lots of talented, hard-working peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

You lost me at Lawyer, depending if you want Big Law, but I agree with the rest.

Law school admission is purely stats-based. There are no “feeders” either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I discovered this forum last week. Dh and I attended T20 schools and T10 grad schools in the 90s. Oldest is in middle school. I stumbled upon this forum and it sounds insanely competitive to get into college. My kids are well rounded but not super stars at anything. They like to ski, fish, golf, play soccer, tennis, basketball and go boating. They do some academic extracurriculars but aren’t the best at anything.

Are my kids totally screwed because they are too cookie cutter UMC?

They don’t do anything that stands out. I am sure or hope my kids will get good grades in high school and have a good SAT score but it seems everyone does.

It’s not hard at all to get into college. Just focus on fit and not rankings.

x100000

Parents need to reassess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

Do not spend money on an expensive or out of state college for OT, PT, Dietician, Nurse - these all have caps on the salaries and are so dependent upon insurance rates. I know several people who went to expensive schools and took out loans for these jobs and they are very vocal about what a mistake it is. An OT I know had no clue how low the salaries are. I encountered a teacher with a masters who went thru grad school not understanding teacher salaries in the US.