Is it really that hard to get into college?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

I am in my mid 40s and my friends all have kids ages 13-16. All my friends think my kid is so smart with perfect everything. I think reading DCUM gives me anxiety.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

I think you’re underestimating how much your Harvard degree bumped you to getting the interview over equally qualified candidates in the first place. I’m not saying it’s a golden ticket no matter what. But you having that as your school on your resume automatically implies some things about you (intelligence, talent and hard work needed to get in) that an HR person will assume about you. It does this like no other school, even more than Princeton or Yale.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

I think you’re underestimating how much your Harvard degree bumped you to getting the interview over equally qualified candidates in the first place. I’m not saying it’s a golden ticket no matter what. But you having that as your school on your resume automatically implies some things about you (intelligence, talent and hard work needed to get in) that an HR person will assume about you. It does this like no other school, even more than Princeton or Yale.

Lol. The HR person also might also automatically assume you are as arrogant as that post implies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

I think you’re underestimating how much your Harvard degree bumped you to getting the interview over equally qualified candidates in the first place. I’m not saying it’s a golden ticket no matter what. But you having that as your school on your resume automatically implies some things about you (intelligence, talent and hard work needed to get in) that an HR person will assume about you. It does this like no other school, even more than Princeton or Yale.

Lol. The HR person also might also automatically assume you are as arrogant as that post implies.

This. Yes, it's probably a plus in most situations but my dad (division leader at a large corporation) had a flat "no Ivies" policy in hiring because he'd had too many bad experiences. Not saying that's right, any more than someone who'd only hire from T10s. But there is some baggage that can come with that. There are a-holes from every school but it was an Ivy grad I supervised early in my career who told me she shouldn't have to spend her time faxing things (a big part of an assistant's time back in the 90s) because she went to (college x). But I've also worked with/supervised other Ivy grads were great. Note I went to a regional public U and still work with/supervised Ivy grads. In the end it's the person, not the school that matters

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

Oh look, another private school forum troll who probably doesn’t even have kids, and if you do, they’re in some public district. You’re so broke and miserable and unfulfilled, you serial post variations of this same cliche-filled nonsense thousands of times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

Oh look, another private school forum troll who probably doesn’t even have kids, and if you do, they’re in some public district. You’re so broke and miserable and unfulfilled, you serial post variations of this same cliche-filled nonsense thousands of times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

Aren't you being overly dramatic? These kids (the A/A- 1560 kids at a Big3) ALL got into top 20 schools. I have teenagers at two different Big3 schools so I know many kids. Now, the top kids might not have gotten in to their number one choice but they did all get in somewhere very good and very selective (top 20 university or top 20 liberal arts).

Do you know other scenarios? Top Big3 kid who is stuck going to a school ranked 100?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming you're not a troll, yes, it is hard to get into highly rejective colleges. Especially if you are from a competitive area where your kid is competing against 30 other high stats kids from their class.

My kid with competitive (99%) stats and ECs is going to a T50 school. A very good school, but not what we had expected some 4 years ago at the start of high school. Certainly did not expect the rejections from the competitive colleges that spouse and I went to. Nor some of the schools we might once have considered a safety school.

So it's not that your kids are screwed. They'll get into a good college, and chances are it's even going to be a great college. Just don't expect the T10 colleges to be matches.

Also if your kids are better at networking and doing the sorts of things that bring attention to themselves, like emailing school representatives, then that helps.

I am not a troll. Our kids are at a well regarded public school. They have so many smart friends that sound identical to one another on paper. One kid may run track and another May play tennis but none are THAT good to be an athletic recruit.

Hope this is not a completely stupid question but do hobbies help? My kids love to ski, boat and fish. They will never be on a ski team but my son has been skiing on black since he was 9. We also go on tons of fishing trips.

No, that won't help at all, unless the child has some accomplishments in that hobby, or a leadership position in some related group, or something like that.

But don't worry, my niece just got into the college of her choice and wasn't rejected anywhere she applied, and she's a very good student but certainly not a superstar and she had few extracurriculars. She isn't going to an Ivy or anything, but it's a good school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

I am in my mid 40s and my friends all have kids ages 13-16. All my friends think my kid is so smart with perfect everything. I think reading DCUM gives me anxiety.

Your kid is likely smart and a great person. Reading DCUM doesn't need to give you anxiety. However, it should let you know the way to lower anxiety is to have a good list of colleges that include REACH, TARGETS and SAFETIES. The parents stressing are those that don't have good targets or safeties. And key point: those T and S need to be affordable and somewhere your kid would LOVE to attend. Make the right list, and understand that you might not get any reaches and you will be fine.


However, when we went to college (late 80s/early 90s) the admission rate at Columbia was 25%, it's now 3%. And there are 6 M more students applying to colleges now with about the same number of spots in the T50 schools. Add in the common app making it easier to apply and it can be a bloodbath for the elite schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

I think you’re underestimating how much your Harvard degree bumped you to getting the interview over equally qualified candidates in the first place. I’m not saying it’s a golden ticket no matter what. But you having that as your school on your resume automatically implies some things about you (intelligence, talent and hard work needed to get in) that an HR person will assume about you. It does this like no other school, even more than Princeton or Yale.

Lol. The HR person also might also automatically assume you are as arrogant as that post implies.

This. Yes, it's probably a plus in most situations but my dad (division leader at a large corporation) had a flat "no Ivies" policy in hiring because he'd had too many bad experiences. Not saying that's right, any more than someone who'd only hire from T10s. But there is some baggage that can come with that. There are a-holes from every school but it was an Ivy grad I supervised early in my career who told me she shouldn't have to spend her time faxing things (a big part of an assistant's time back in the 90s) because she went to (college x). But I've also worked with/supervised other Ivy grads were great. Note I went to a regional public U and still work with/supervised Ivy grads. In the end it's the person, not the school that matters

Yes---it is the person and what they do with their life/career that ultimately matters. Elite college might help a bit (or as you stated, might hurt as well) but beyond entry level positions, I have not met anyone who cares where you attended college---it's about your references and work completed.

There will always be some things that give people a leg up. It can be connections (H/Y/P/S alumni network), family connections or someone you met at a conference/etc... Most of my positions after my straight out of college have been made from connections I made. Went to grad school that my first company sent me to. On a 2 hour flight on a trip back to visit my manager/dept for a few days, I struck up a conversation with the gentleman sitting next to me on the plane. Turns out he worked for same company and was in a very exciting department of the newest technologies (something I really wanted to work on)---he held multiple patents in this area and was one of the top researchers at the company. Guess, what: 9 months later when I was done with grad school I returned to the company and was able to easily switch jobs and work for this guy. All because I took the time to have an intelligent conversation with a seat mate on a plane and make the connection and keep up communications until I returned. Basically, this guy created a position for me in his growing group because he was impressed with my portfolio/grad school projects/etc. All from a 2 hour plane ride---same thing can come from professional conferences or any other interaction. You never know what connections you can make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

I am in my mid 40s and my friends all have kids ages 13-16. All my friends think my kid is so smart with perfect everything. I think reading DCUM gives me anxiety.

Your kid is likely smart and a great person. Reading DCUM doesn't need to give you anxiety. However, it should let you know the way to lower anxiety is to have a good list of colleges that include REACH, TARGETS and SAFETIES. The parents stressing are those that don't have good targets or safeties. And key point: those T and S need to be affordable and somewhere your kid would LOVE to attend. Make the right list, and understand that you might not get any reaches and you will be fine.


However, when we went to college (late 80s/early 90s) the admission rate at Columbia was 25%, it's now 3%. And there are 6 M more students applying to colleges now with about the same number of spots in the T50 schools. Add in the common app making it easier to apply and it can be a bloodbath for the elite schools

We will be full pay and expect to pay full private college tuition so money will not be a factor for us.

Our well regarded public sends a ton of students to UVA, VT, W&M as well as other OOS publics like Penn State, UMich, Pitt and other big state schools. The private colleges in the T50 don’t seem to be as popular. Of course there are some kids who will go to SLAC but it is definitely not the majority. I’m hoping this helps my kid who will likely choose a smaller private college and will be full pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think it was the test optional component that allowed students to apply to schools they previously would not have qualified for. I have heard/read that many colleges have multiple times the amount of applicants they had in years past so their acceptance rates are way down.

Qualified isn't really accurate. Scores have always been 1 factor, and many schools have been optional or blind for well before covid. I do think that in addition to more students applying, more students feel less constrained in their apps from more schools being TO. That is much different from being less qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

I think you’re underestimating how much your Harvard degree bumped you to getting the interview over equally qualified candidates in the first place. I’m not saying it’s a golden ticket no matter what. But you having that as your school on your resume automatically implies some things about you (intelligence, talent and hard work needed to get in) that an HR person will assume about you. It does this like no other school, even more than Princeton or Yale.

Lol. The HR person also might also automatically assume you are as arrogant as that post implies.

I was kind of thinking the same. Mine did not apply to Harvard because she didn't like what other students said about the competitive atmosphere , and her friend who went turned into a snob. That was a huge turn off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never seen a wealthy full-pay teen with good stats get rejected from Wisconsin, Michigan, and USC. You're going to get into at least one, so absolute worst-case your kid is at a top 40-ish university.

The folks who complain on message boards have mediocre unmotivated kids who simply don't care as much as the parents do. And also, parents with a kid currently at a 20 to 50 ranked school who exaggerate how difficult it is to get in, in an effort to make their kid sound more accomplished than s/he is.

Outside of the super elite, all universities are hard-up for money. A rich kid who looks like s/he'll graduate on time, has parents who are paying cash and will very likely donate, is a highly sought after applicant.

I am here to tell you that my spiky full-pay kid with a 1500 SAT score, APs (4s and 5s) galore and a 3.95/4.64 (which means an A in every high school class except 1 btw) was rejected from Michigan and USC

How do you end up with a 3.95 out of 4.64 with only one grade that isn’t an A? Did s/he get a D or F in a class. A 3.95/4.00 would be like one B.

Why are you trying to calculate and correct when you can't read? Who grades on a 4.65 scale? PP said 3.95 weighted/4.65 unweighted, all As one B, that checks. Maybe don't waste time nitpicking self-reported, anonymous data.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I didn’t think it was possible for someone with such a high score to get rejected for Mich or USC. I now see that she meant 3.95 unweighted or 4.64 weighted.

Parents on this thread need to wake up to the new admissions reality. Plenty of top students at my DD’s Big 3 were rejected from Michigan and USC. Just look at the admissions rates (approx 10%)and then adjust for athletes, URM, first gen, etc. you’re talking about a very small chance of admissions

Some of the most shocked families this year were ones who thought 1560+ SATs and A/A- at a Big 3 meant guarantee admission to desirable schools. It WAS a bloodbath this year. To parents: don’t say you weren’t warned.

I am in my mid 40s and my friends all have kids ages 13-16. All my friends think my kid is so smart with perfect everything. I think reading DCUM gives me anxiety.

Your kid is likely smart and a great person. Reading DCUM doesn't need to give you anxiety. However, it should let you know the way to lower anxiety is to have a good list of colleges that include REACH, TARGETS and SAFETIES. The parents stressing are those that don't have good targets or safeties. And key point: those T and S need to be affordable and somewhere your kid would LOVE to attend. Make the right list, and understand that you might not get any reaches and you will be fine.


However, when we went to college (late 80s/early 90s) the admission rate at Columbia was 25%, it's now 3%. And there are 6 M more students applying to colleges now with about the same number of spots in the T50 schools. Add in the common app making it easier to apply and it can be a bloodbath for the elite schools

We will be full pay and expect to pay full private college tuition so money will not be a factor for us.

Our well regarded public sends a ton of students to UVA, VT, W&M as well as other OOS publics like Penn State, UMich, Pitt and other big state schools. The private colleges in the T50 don’t seem to be as popular. Of course there are some kids who will go to SLAC but it is definitely not the majority. I’m hoping this helps my kid who will likely choose a smaller private college and will be full pay.

Being full pay definately helps you---it means you can apply to more universities (at $50-100 a pop) and you don't have to worry about merit, as many in top 50 don't give much merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

I'm so sorry for them. That's terrible. There aren't enough spots for these kids. Some of them will have to find another path. Ivy/Ivy+ or bust is a recipe for heartbreak for most kids.

And a really stupid recipe at that. Once you get your first job (other than in a few fields---high level investing/PE is one area) it really does not matter where you went. It's what you did in college that matters, and what you do at the job. My first kid went to at T100 school, and the program was rigorous, with the honor program being even more rigorous for those who are up to that challenge (not my kid). all of my DC's friends are gainfully employed or onto graduate school (that's over 25 students). Some in at top graduate schools and medical schools. You do not have to attend top 20 schools to be successful.

This once you get your first job nonsense has to go. Going to Harvard or Yale or Princeton stays with you and matters even if you work in the DPW picking up trash --- will matter when you go for supervisor and later head of department. Does it determine how you will do in life -- of course not. Tones of colleges will work. But just as it is not Harvard or bustr please do not believe that it no longer matters after first job.

Really, if I'm working as a trash collector, I will get further ahead if I went to Harvard? What are you smoking? In your scenario I've graduated from Harvard and working as a trash collector actually picking up trash and use my Harvard degree to move up the supervisor ladder and to dept head of trash collection? So extremely glad I graduated from Harvard to do that. Somehow I think there are more important issues---such as why the hell did I graduate from an Ivy League school yet I'm working as a trash collector(something that barely requires a HS degree).


I've lived life and nobody has ever asked where I attended college after my first job. Hell, for my first real job nobody asked either, but that was because it was the direct result of 2 summer internships with the same dept, so they knew my work (and I guess where I had attended college) and happily were waiting to hire me full time. Switched jobs 2 years later and what mattered was my references from my first job, not where I attended college. Never once was I asked about college or where I went in my 3 interviews for the 2nd job. So while it might have still been on my resume at only 2 years out of grad School, nobody asked/discussed it. Instead they discussed my qualifications and work experience as a normal person would expect to happen. So yes had I attended Harvard and someone interviewing me had gone to Harvard, perhaps it might have swayed them a bit to liking me over someone else. But ultimately, I'd hope a Harvard educated person would not just hire me cause I also have a Harvard degree---I'd hope they could look at my real qualifications and make a decision based on that.

Only way attending Harvard/Y/P matters is if I need one of my buddies to call a future boss and put in a good word. Same for all jobs after the 2nd job. Nobody cared where I attended college. What matters is how I performed at my previous jobs and my references.

Yes, your connections at HYP/etc will give you a network of people willing to help you, so will many other colleges. Penn State has a large network, so does Purdue, UMich, VATech, UVA, etc. Plenty of highly successful people graduate from non-ivy/T20 schools and go on to do great things.

So you go on thinking your Harvard degree matters to most people once you are over 25 yo.

I think you’re underestimating how much your Harvard degree bumped you to getting the interview over equally qualified candidates in the first place. I’m not saying it’s a golden ticket no matter what. But you having that as your school on your resume automatically implies some things about you (intelligence, talent and hard work needed to get in) that an HR person will assume about you. It does this like no other school, even more than Princeton or Yale.

NP-Interesting that you are so arrogant that you think it is appropriate to tell someone else how they should view their degree and life experiences...unbelievable.