Why do principals seem to be against IEPs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

This is such a white supremacy culture outlook on things. That everything is a competition for resources (not to mention defensiveness and power hoarding, etc. etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s very school/principal/teacher specific. I’ve had 3 kids with IEPs. #1 and #2 were a struggle. My impression was the school had major special ed staffing issues. It was always a struggle. #3 began services through infants and toddlers and transitioned to an IEP in preschool so I didn’t have to fight for him to qualify in K. The school got a new principal soon after and she was much more supportive. Later there was also a new case manager who was simply amazing. #3 still has an IEP in middle school where the 6th grade case manager was stellar and went above and beyond but the document hasn’t been worth the paper it’s written on for 7th and 8th. So I really think it’s staff dependent.

Thanks, OP here. that could be another explanation. Not enough special Ed teachers. But thats where i am confused. Wouldnt more IEPs bring more budget at same time?

More money doesn’t mean more staff. There are just not enough professionals to fill all of these positions. The same problem is happening in private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

This is such a white supremacy culture outlook on things. That everything is a competition for resources (not to mention defensiveness and power hoarding, etc. etc.)

Do you think the pie is unlimited?

[Anonymous]

The explanation from the Principal sounds very accurate and reasonable. So you asked the Principal, they told you, and you think they’re lying because you think there was disproportionate irritation? Honestly you sound a little irritating so maybe it’s just that. Which is not to say you should be treated disrespectfully but we’d need to know more to know if that really happened. I mean you came in to contest their opinions with your private evaluation, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

This is such a white supremacy culture outlook on things. That everything is a competition for resources (not to mention defensiveness and power hoarding, etc. etc.)

I actually don’t disagree that resources are rarely equal or fair among kids but in my school it was the “bubble” kids who got the most resources, to try to get them over the bar to Proficient. Testing has changed since and probably realigned the incentives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

This is such a white supremacy culture outlook on things. That everything is a competition for resources (not to mention defensiveness and power hoarding, etc. etc.)

I k now but it's sad when your kid doesn't have a reading group in months whereas many seem to have them soverla times a week. It would be nice if it were ea little more balanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

BS. Tell me the county and I'll give you the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

This is such a white supremacy culture outlook on things. That everything is a competition for resources (not to mention defensiveness and power hoarding, etc. etc.)

I k now but it's sad when your kid doesn't have a reading group in months whereas many seem to have them soverla times a week. It would be nice if it were ea little more balanced.

Agree with the PP and I’m not white. Go ask the parents of gifted students and they’ll gladly tell you how they’re students needs go unmet. And gifted is technically a Special Education group. What about High Flyers. These kids particularly if introverted can get overlooked. I know plenty of these kids whi liked PP indicated would like their reading grouo to meet more often. Heck, they would be happy w/ facilitated book club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Convinced MCPS redirects spec Ed funds to general education.

Seems like the opposite in my experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

This is such a white supremacy culture outlook on things. That everything is a competition for resources (not to mention defensiveness and power hoarding, etc. etc.)

I k now but it's sad when your kid doesn't have a reading group in months whereas many seem to have them soverla times a week. It would be nice if it were ea little more balanced.

Agree with the PP and I’m not white. Go ask the parents of gifted students and they’ll gladly tell you how they’re students needs go unmet. And gifted is technically a Special Education group. What about High Flyers. These kids particularly if introverted can get overlooked. I know plenty of these kids whi liked PP indicated would like their reading grouo to meet more often. Heck, they would be happy w/ facilitated book club.

And then there are the high flyers who are also dyslexic or have other learning differences. There is effectively nothing for them anywhere regardless of the 2E handbooks.

[Anonymous]

There are special trainings run by the school attorney associations and school administrators groups where they teach those staff strategies to manage parents so that they avoid enforceable commitments to educating children with disabilities. They learn things like responding to emails with a phone call, suspending kids with disabilities repeatedly as a harassment tactic and also to tell staff it is illegal to say things like dyslexia since they aren’t qualified to diagnose.

IDEA is the only federal law enforced entirely by private citizens aka parents.

If only we spent equivalent energy on universal design for instruction, structured literacy for all, appropriate standards for early childhood to include more fine motor development and social emotional learning. But our curricula are now defined by what can be easily measured on standardized tests, our teachers aren’t prepared to use effective reading instruction and after COVID everyone is burned out.

[Anonymous]

My experience after having attended many IEP meetings for many different children and working in special ed for many years is that most principals are not against IEPs in the least and they do not take anything out on kids as some PPs have implied.

On the other hand, I have seen principals get pretty annoyed at parents. That may come across to the parents as the principal is against IEPs and doesn't care about the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are special trainings run by the school attorney associations and school administrators groups where they teach those staff strategies to manage parents so that they avoid enforceable commitments to educating children with disabilities. They learn things like responding to emails with a phone call, suspending kids with disabilities repeatedly as a harassment tactic and also to tell staff it is illegal to say things like dyslexia since they aren’t qualified to diagnose.

IDEA is the only federal law enforced entirely by private citizens aka parents.

If only we spent equivalent energy on universal design for instruction, structured literacy for all, appropriate standards for early childhood to include more fine motor development and social emotional learning. But our curricula are now defined by what can be easily measured on standardized tests, our teachers aren’t prepared to use effective reading instruction and after COVID everyone is burned out.

Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the incentives ? In the IEP meeting the one who seemed against an IEP for my child was the principal. She seemed personally irritated by it. In the body language of the teacher I could see she was afraid of saying anything that the principal could interpret as ammunition we parents could use for an IEP. She genuinely seemed scared of saying the truth and was tiptoeing and sharing nervous glances. It was a weird dance to witness.

We did get the IEP for dyslexia (the special Ed teacher was on our side + we were the annoying “rich” parents who came in with external private evaluation). I was expecting having to convince the team but I didn’t expect to feel that level of tension in the room. I could see something else was going on.

So, could teachers or people who know better on this forum explain to me the details ? What is the Budget impact for the school? What happens if they have too many IEPs? Why is it better for principals to limit them ? Do they have a specific % target ? Get penalized if too many?

Explanation I was given was : no it is not a budget issue as IEP come with Moco budget not school budget, but principal cares because the IEP tracking takes work so they want to avoid the burden on Special Ed teacher and classroom teacher if not necessary. That’s the explanation I got from the principal (which is a reasonable explanation but didn’t match the level of tension in the room)

At our school the IEP kids get everything. It's the regular kids that are ignored.

My child had an IEP for years. It was a joke. They got nothing and if we hadn't supplemented at home and with private services our kid would have still been struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IEPs cost the school district time and money so they are resented by bad principals and case workers. We had to fight for an IEP for ASD son in FCPS. The Case manager actually showed up unannounced to the school district IEP meeting to fight our DS's hearing. But we had our tutor, tester, and psychiatrist there so won hands down. It's not the way it should be but is in many school districts. That's why you see parents on here hiring advocates or IEP lawyers. If you run into problems, call the district's Compliance Coordinator. It's their job to make sure the schools are in compliance. The local school will sit up and take notice if you call in the Compliance Coordinator - otherwise they may continue to fight accomodations.

I have to laugh because I just had an interview with OCR about an IEP meeting Resolution and Compliance was at. There were multiple violations during the IEP meeting. The violations by RACU demonstrated clearly that discrimination against students with disabilities is a system wide problem propagated by Central Office leadership.