Why do principals seem to be against IEPs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

How ignorant. I sure hope you are not a teacher. A student could have a 504 Plan, which is "other health impairments," because they have diabetes and need to be able to leave the classroom because their blood sugar spiked, or they might have a hearing impairment and need to sit away from distracting noises. These kids are just a few examples of kids who have 504 Plans for reasons unrelated to their capacity to learn. Also, the research shows that the kids in inclusion classes who don't have a 504 plan or IEP actually achieve more than those in segregated classes. I'm sure they have more empathy, too.

+1 Special Education practices are often just best practices in education. All students benefit in the classroom when a teacher implements universal design to deliver services and accommodations. For those of you who are unaware of the concept of universal design, it’s providing the services and accommodations to all students in the class while meeting the needs as outlined in a child’s IEP/504 plan.

Furthermore, I agree that non-disabled students learn empathy and understanding when they meet and learn with students with diverse disabilities.

I'm a NP, but this defies rationality. All kids don't benefit from having a classroom full of students with skills that vary across 5 grade levels and behaviors to match. I'm sorry, no matter what faux education school researchers have tried to design, this is not true. Most average and above average kids in public school are left to educate themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

How ignorant. I sure hope you are not a teacher. A student could have a 504 Plan, which is "other health impairments," because they have diabetes and need to be able to leave the classroom because their blood sugar spiked, or they might have a hearing impairment and need to sit away from distracting noises. These kids are just a few examples of kids who have 504 Plans for reasons unrelated to their capacity to learn. Also, the research shows that the kids in inclusion classes who don't have a 504 plan or IEP actually achieve more than those in segregated classes. I'm sure they have more empathy, too.

+1 Special Education practices are often just best practices in education. All students benefit in the classroom when a teacher implements universal design to deliver services and accommodations. For those of you who are unaware of the concept of universal design, it’s providing the services and accommodations to all students in the class while meeting the needs as outlined in a child’s IEP/504 plan.

Furthermore, I agree that non-disabled students learn empathy and understanding when they meet and learn with students with diverse disabilities.

I'm a NP, but this defies rationality. All kids don't benefit from having a classroom full of students with skills that vary across 5 grade levels and behaviors to match. I'm sorry, no matter what faux education school researchers have tried to design, this is not true. Most average and above average kids in public school are left to educate themselves.

With the 300% increase in IEPs over the past decade especially in UMC areas, it has changed things. The NYT article claims that many wealthy families pay $7k-$10k for a private diagnosis to get their children extra time on standardized tests. I think this is probably why many colleges aren't using the SAT anymore since the scores are less meaningful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's a pain in the ass that requires extra work, so not everybody can be accommodated.

This is the real reason.

But how is it extra work? There is a teacher at my kids’ school whose sole job is to do these type of assessments and work with kids who have special needs. It’s her job.

Because then the student has accommodations in the classroom that can be hard to manage when you have many in each class! You’re teaching one lesson to 20 kids and then 5 separate plans for the 5 kids with different accommodations.

The 300% increase in 504 accommodations in UMC areas has changed teaching over the past decade.

In MCPS, 504 accommodations are given for children in lieu of an IEP. A sign that a child needs an IEP so they can learn skills for independence is a 504 plan that has increasing accommodations that go into double digits.


I agree giving a child a 504 plan with a long list of things that the general educator needs to do for the child is an impossible situation for the general education teacher and a disservice for the student. In those cases, the general education teacher should be speaking up and advocating for the child to have an IEP.

With an IEP, the student should have special education services including service hours with a special education teacher that would meet the child’s needs versus adding to the incredibly large workload of general education teachers.

If every child how needed an IEP (including those with 504s) got one, MCPS would be lucky to get them 15 minutes a week with a special education teacher. There is a massive shortage, so everything would just fall back on the classroom teacher.

And services are rarely provided 1-1. At best your kid is in a small group and even then they don’t meet consistently because of scheduling and staffing issues

MCPS has staffing shortages for students with disabilities because they choose to have staffing shortages. They are using special education staff as substitutes. They are underpaying virtually all staff who work with students with disabilities. Then because principals know that there are staffing issues, in the pre-IEP meetings before parents are invited in, staff members are told what the decision at the meeting will be. Special Education is a dog and pony show in MCPS.

It sounds like this is because of the large increases in students with a diagnosis that's happened over the past decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's a pain in the ass that requires extra work, so not everybody can be accommodated.

This is the real reason.

But how is it extra work? There is a teacher at my kids’ school whose sole job is to do these type of assessments and work with kids who have special needs. It’s her job.

Because then the student has accommodations in the classroom that can be hard to manage when you have many in each class! You’re teaching one lesson to 20 kids and then 5 separate plans for the 5 kids with different accommodations.

The 300% increase in 504 accommodations in UMC areas has changed teaching over the past decade.

In MCPS, 504 accommodations are given for children in lieu of an IEP. A sign that a child needs an IEP so they can learn skills for independence is a 504 plan that has increasing accommodations that go into double digits.


I agree giving a child a 504 plan with a long list of things that the general educator needs to do for the child is an impossible situation for the general education teacher and a disservice for the student. In those cases, the general education teacher should be speaking up and advocating for the child to have an IEP.

With an IEP, the student should have special education services including service hours with a special education teacher that would meet the child’s needs versus adding to the incredibly large workload of general education teachers.

If every child how needed an IEP (including those with 504s) got one, MCPS would be lucky to get them 15 minutes a week with a special education teacher. There is a massive shortage, so everything would just fall back on the classroom teacher.

And services are rarely provided 1-1. At best your kid is in a small group and even then they don’t meet consistently because of scheduling and staffing issues

MCPS has staffing shortages for students with disabilities because they choose to have staffing shortages. They are using special education staff as substitutes. They are underpaying virtually all staff who work with students with disabilities. Then because principals know that there are staffing issues, in the pre-IEP meetings before parents are invited in, staff members are told what the decision at the meeting will be. Special Education is a dog and pony show in MCPS.

It sounds like this is because of the large increases in students with a diagnosis that's happened over the past decade.

That minimalist assumption ignores the flight of retirements and resignations of staff that left MCPS during the pandemic. For example, WJLA recently reported on its Crisis in the Classroom series why the MCPS pay scale does not align with the standard pay scale for a school psychologist position. More parents are going to get private assessments when the school team stalls and creates road blocks to MCPS evaluations. With more parents getting private assessments, more parents have data needed for 504 plans and IEPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's a pain in the ass that requires extra work, so not everybody can be accommodated.

This is the real reason.

But how is it extra work? There is a teacher at my kids’ school whose sole job is to do these type of assessments and work with kids who have special needs. It’s her job.

Because then the student has accommodations in the classroom that can be hard to manage when you have many in each class! You’re teaching one lesson to 20 kids and then 5 separate plans for the 5 kids with different accommodations.

The 300% increase in 504 accommodations in UMC areas has changed teaching over the past decade.

In MCPS, 504 accommodations are given for children in lieu of an IEP. A sign that a child needs an IEP so they can learn skills for independence is a 504 plan that has increasing accommodations that go into double digits.


I agree giving a child a 504 plan with a long list of things that the general educator needs to do for the child is an impossible situation for the general education teacher and a disservice for the student. In those cases, the general education teacher should be speaking up and advocating for the child to have an IEP.

With an IEP, the student should have special education services including service hours with a special education teacher that would meet the child’s needs versus adding to the incredibly large workload of general education teachers.

If every child how needed an IEP (including those with 504s) got one, MCPS would be lucky to get them 15 minutes a week with a special education teacher. There is a massive shortage, so everything would just fall back on the classroom teacher.

And services are rarely provided 1-1. At best your kid is in a small group and even then they don’t meet consistently because of scheduling and staffing issues

MCPS has staffing shortages for students with disabilities because they choose to have staffing shortages. They are using special education staff as substitutes. They are underpaying virtually all staff who work with students with disabilities. Then because principals know that there are staffing issues, in the pre-IEP meetings before parents are invited in, staff members are told what the decision at the meeting will be. Special Education is a dog and pony show in MCPS.

What can be done about pay and staffing shortages? Also, clearly these IEP decisions are made without fully assessing a child or knowing their history or even their assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably because every other parents wants one for their student?

Oh yes, a child with learning delays and an IEP is a very desirable club to be in. 🙄

There is absolutely a trend among upper middle class parents to get their kids extra time and ADHD meds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/extra-time-504-sat-act.html

It’s definitely a trend that MCPS ignores students with ADHD and it takes private evaluations for an IEP. In MCPS, only students with parents who can afford the private testing will be accommodated and receive special education services. The services are important to teach organizational skills and strategy to cope with executive functioning difficulties. These problems start in elementary school but have a greater impact as a child progresses through middle school and high school.

Even then an IEP is just words on paper. We paid for private testing but they never gave child much but uneducated first generation paraeducator. Lady could barely string a sentence in English together. Utterly a lost year before we went private - then simply moved. We’ve noticed MCPS now pays for testing to look good to the Feds but then doesn’t do anything further in good faith. Supreme Court decision said just not de minimus so kid can just languish. MCPS just wants fed money so they can redirect funds anyways.

The people who are in key positions for Special Education in MCPS in the core are just dishonest people. Documents are literally falsified and MCPS administrators do not fix the problems. Who suffers? Students with disabilities.

It takes people without souls to make a living actually causing harm to students instead of educating them. The list is long in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

How ignorant. I sure hope you are not a teacher. A student could have a 504 Plan, which is "other health impairments," because they have diabetes and need to be able to leave the classroom because their blood sugar spiked, or they might have a hearing impairment and need to sit away from distracting noises. These kids are just a few examples of kids who have 504 Plans for reasons unrelated to their capacity to learn. Also, the research shows that the kids in inclusion classes who don't have a 504 plan or IEP actually achieve more than those in segregated classes. I'm sure they have more empathy, too.

+1 Special Education practices are often just best practices in education. All students benefit in the classroom when a teacher implements universal design to deliver services and accommodations. For those of you who are unaware of the concept of universal design, it’s providing the services and accommodations to all students in the class while meeting the needs as outlined in a child’s IEP/504 plan.

Furthermore, I agree that non-disabled students learn empathy and understanding when they meet and learn with students with diverse disabilities.

I'm a NP, but this defies rationality. All kids don't benefit from having a classroom full of students with skills that vary across 5 grade levels and behaviors to match. I'm sorry, no matter what faux education school researchers have tried to design, this is not true. Most average and above average kids in public school are left to educate themselves.

Your ignorance is astonishing. You do realize that disability is not synonymous with IQ right? A child can have above average ability but still have a disability that has an educational impact.

Many students with disabilities struggle to be identified just to have 504 plans and IEPs fail to be implemented by MCPS. They are the poster children for students discrimination against and left behind. Parents of students with disabilities spend thousands of dollars per year for services that should be provided by MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

How ignorant. I sure hope you are not a teacher. A student could have a 504 Plan, which is "other health impairments," because they have diabetes and need to be able to leave the classroom because their blood sugar spiked, or they might have a hearing impairment and need to sit away from distracting noises. These kids are just a few examples of kids who have 504 Plans for reasons unrelated to their capacity to learn. Also, the research shows that the kids in inclusion classes who don't have a 504 plan or IEP actually achieve more than those in segregated classes. I'm sure they have more empathy, too.

+1 Special Education practices are often just best practices in education. All students benefit in the classroom when a teacher implements universal design to deliver services and accommodations. For those of you who are unaware of the concept of universal design, it’s providing the services and accommodations to all students in the class while meeting the needs as outlined in a child’s IEP/504 plan.

Furthermore, I agree that non-disabled students learn empathy and understanding when they meet and learn with students with diverse disabilities.

I'm a NP, but this defies rationality. All kids don't benefit from having a classroom full of students with skills that vary across 5 grade levels and behaviors to match. I'm sorry, no matter what faux education school researchers have tried to design, this is not true. Most average and above average kids in public school are left to educate themselves.

Your ignorance is astonishing. You do realize that disability is not synonymous with IQ right? A child can have above average ability but still have a disability that has an educational impact.

Many students with disabilities struggle to be identified just to have 504 plans and IEPs fail to be implemented by MCPS. They are the poster children for students discrimination against and left behind. Parents of students with disabilities spend thousands of dollars per year for services that should be provided by MCPS.

I stand by my statement. And I never equated ALL disabilities with lack of IQ, but many disabled students DO have low IQ or have extreme emotional issues, etc. and "all students" do not benefit from their mainstreaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably because every other parents wants one for their student?

Oh yes, a child with learning delays and an IEP is a very desirable club to be in. 🙄

There is absolutely a trend among upper middle class parents to get their kids extra time and ADHD meds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/extra-time-504-sat-act.html

It’s definitely a trend that MCPS ignores students with ADHD and it takes private evaluations for an IEP. In MCPS, only students with parents who can afford the private testing will be accommodated and receive special education services. The services are important to teach organizational skills and strategy to cope with executive functioning difficulties. These problems start in elementary school but have a greater impact as a child progresses through middle school and high school.

Even then an IEP is just words on paper. We paid for private testing but they never gave child much but uneducated first generation paraeducator. Lady could barely string a sentence in English together. Utterly a lost year before we went private - then simply moved. We’ve noticed MCPS now pays for testing to look good to the Feds but then doesn’t do anything further in good faith. Supreme Court decision said just not de minimus so kid can just languish. MCPS just wants fed money so they can redirect funds anyways.

The people who are in key positions for Special Education in MCPS in the core are just dishonest people. Documents are literally falsified and MCPS administrators do not fix the problems. Who suffers? Students with disabilities.

It takes people without souls to make a living actually causing harm to students instead of educating them. The list is long in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Principals do what they are told by Central Office. They are ladder climbers who often don’t even know the IDEA. Heck, Directors and above don’t know the IDEA. I have witnessed the ignorance in leadership at IEP Meetings cause many errors in the process. Ultimately the needs of the student then are not met if an IEP is written (you need ways to measure the goals and implantation for that).

[Anonymous]

MCPS Special Education is a sinking ship. Students are not the priority.