Why do principals seem to be against IEPs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non-classroom teacher, elementary. Nearly all of our IEPs and 504s are upper middle class white kids, who are a minority in the school. The current system for identifying kids isn’t working. Lots of kids who need them aren’t getting them, and lots of kids who don’t need them are getting them. And the numbers for accommodations can be impossible. I have classes where 6 kids out of 20 get “preferential seating.” How do I even do that?

The way I see it is that unless a teacher is assigning seats alphabetically, all kids get preferential seating because teachers always give each kid the seat that is going to make them most successful. I just don’t get why you think this is so hard.

I am disturbed that IEPs and 504s are for the wealthy and those with parents who can understand and figure out how to identify their child’s needs and get them services.

I'm just as disturbed by this teacher's assertion that she can somehow tell which kids don't need IEPs or 504 plans. It's attitudes like this one that cause kids to go into mental health crisis. You shouldn't be a teacher.

I will address this because it’s relevant. I said that some students need them more than others because I am looking at a classroom of 25 students, their behaviors, and their abilities. Of course in an ideal world every student would have an education created especially for them. But I am seeing some students with needs barely affecting their education who are getting attention, and students with lots of needs affecting their education greatly who are not getting attention.

You know staff can request an IEP meeting for a child right? It doesn’t always have to be a parental referral. If you have concerns, the student needs your advocacy.

I’m a gen-Ed MCPS teacher and have been teacher for six years now. Since I started teaching I’ve had a dozen and a half students who have IEPs. I can only think of one which was brought about as a result of parent advocacy (though the gen Ed teacher thoroughly supported the parents and helped with the process). Every other IEP was developed because previous classroom teachers advocated for the students. Based on this post I’m gleaning that this is not the norm. That being said, there is a rigorous process that must occur for students to get additional services. IEPs are not for students who are slightly less good than average, students who get IEPs are generally significantly below grade level.

Your post exemplifies why MCPS is not properly training staff to identify ALL children who have disabilities that require 504 plans or IEPs. Your bias that failing grades are a requirement when evaluating a child has been repeated by teachers, resource teachers for special education, assistant principals, principals, directors, RACU staff, and supervisors in special education. It’s an implicit bias that discriminates against many students with disabilities, especially in light of how low grading requirements have become in the past three years.

This article might be helpful. Also, the US Department of Education has guidance letters you can print to bring to school meetings to help with overcoming the illegal passing grades roadblock:

https://medium.com/educate-pub/can-my-child-be-denied-an-iep-because-his-grades-are-okay-764481e71528

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.



"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

Also, "get...out" Praying for your healing having grown up when you did. This is egregious and I pray you have no role in students' lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

How ignorant. I sure hope you are not a teacher. A student could have a 504 Plan, which is "other health impairments," because they have diabetes and need to be able to leave the classroom because their blood sugar spiked, or they might have a hearing impairment and need to sit away from distracting noises. These kids are just a few examples of kids who have 504 Plans for reasons unrelated to their capacity to learn. Also, the research shows that the kids in inclusion classes who don't have a 504 plan or IEP actually achieve more than those in segregated classes. I'm sure they have more empathy, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

How ignorant. I sure hope you are not a teacher. A student could have a 504 Plan, which is "other health impairments," because they have diabetes and need to be able to leave the classroom because their blood sugar spiked, or they might have a hearing impairment and need to sit away from distracting noises. These kids are just a few examples of kids who have 504 Plans for reasons unrelated to their capacity to learn. Also, the research shows that the kids in inclusion classes who don't have a 504 plan or IEP actually achieve more than those in segregated classes. I'm sure they have more empathy, too.

+1 Special Education practices are often just best practices in education. All students benefit in the classroom when a teacher implements universal design to deliver services and accommodations. For those of you who are unaware of the concept of universal design, it’s providing the services and accommodations to all students in the class while meeting the needs as outlined in a child’s IEP/504 plan.

Furthermore, I agree that non-disabled students learn empathy and understanding when they meet and learn with students with diverse disabilities.

[Anonymous]

I am surprised at how little MCPS staff know of the laws that protect students with disabilities. Grades are just one data point and are not a litmus test for who gets a 504 plan or an IEP. When a principal and director speak at a meeting but they are falsely saying this child doesn’t qualify because of passing grades, that carries a lot of weight.

All MCPS parents should be recording their 504/IEP meetings. Give the school notice in writing that you will be doing so. These types of bad apples need exposure and a recording is the only way to capture the true conversation at these meetings.

[Anonymous]

Probably because every other parents wants one for their student?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the “rich” parents in a poor school, maybe the teacher is sick of devoting resources and time to rich kids when the poorer kids need so much more?

OP here, thats a possibility. I would actually have more respect for the principal if that was the reason. That is also why i want to understand if us asking for an IEP deprives other kids. I do think that our kid needs it. It is just that we can afford to pay for outside intervention.

But i am not sure she is helping the poorer kids get the extra support they need either.

I doubt she put that much thinking in to it. Many principals just don't want to bother with special needs kids and think they belong somewhere else, not in their school.

But there is definitely a bias in Moco towards supposed "equity" meaning they deny kids who need special services if they think the families can afford outside help. An evaluator in infants and toddlers told me this very bluntly after we appealed because my very delayed child was denied any services. The supervisor who came in said the first evaluation of my child was not correct in determining no need for services and it was because attitude of some of the staff do not think it is fair to work with children in families that can afford private services. Her evaluation was night and day different and found my child is severely impacted.

It's illegal and not how it's supposed to work but the moral reasons made a lot of sense.

I have run into this too and it really pisses me off because 1. My husband went back to school while working full-time to get into a much better paying field. 2. We have to spend money on a kinds of things most parents don't for their children. 3. We have to save for our retirement and possible long-term care plus leave our severely disabled child enough money to live on for the rest of her life too. We're special needs estate planning not spending summers on a yacht.

I just want to point out that people’s assumptions about who can afford if are often wrong. I am a well-educated white lady living in an affluent community. Prople assume I have money, but really I am quite poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.



"regular"..."It needs to go back to the way it used to be." Please, please retire.

Also, "get...out" Praying for your healing having grown up when you did. This is egregious and I pray you have no role in students' lives.

Holy crap are you ignorant. Is your name Tom Marshall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non-classroom teacher, elementary. Nearly all of our IEPs and 504s are upper middle class white kids, who are a minority in the school. The current system for identifying kids isn’t working. Lots of kids who need them aren’t getting them, and lots of kids who don’t need them are getting them. And the numbers for accommodations can be impossible. I have classes where 6 kids out of 20 get “preferential seating.” How do I even do that?

The way I see it is that unless a teacher is assigning seats alphabetically, all kids get preferential seating because teachers always give each kid the seat that is going to make them most successful. I just don’t get why you think this is so hard.

I am disturbed that IEPs and 504s are for the wealthy and those with parents who can understand and figure out how to identify their child’s needs and get them services.

I'm just as disturbed by this teacher's assertion that she can somehow tell which kids don't need IEPs or 504 plans. It's attitudes like this one that cause kids to go into mental health crisis. You shouldn't be a teacher.

I will address this because it’s relevant. I said that some students need them more than others because I am looking at a classroom of 25 students, their behaviors, and their abilities. Of course in an ideal world every student would have an education created especially for them. But I am seeing some students with needs barely affecting their education who are getting attention, and students with lots of needs affecting their education greatly who are not getting attention.

You know staff can request an IEP meeting for a child right? It doesn’t always have to be a parental referral. If you have concerns, the student needs your advocacy.

How do you know those student's needs don't affect their education. Many kids with "invisible" disabilities won't succeed academically without support. I have experienced teachers who clearly have little knowledge of special ed and refuse to follow an iep because they believe their view is more important than that of a team who worked together to create the IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

Kind of like how MCPS used to have segregated schools? For federal funds that support public education, students with disabilities have a legal right to be educated in the least restrictive environment. Some need pull out services but most can be educated in the general education classroom with support.

That “inclusion crap” meant my dyslexic & dysgraphic kid with an IEP could take AP Physics C and get a 4 on the AP exam - I seriously doubt his presence is hurting your child. Pretty sure he could teach you a few things as well.

Same. My child could teach AP History yet had to fight to get in the class. Dysgraphia is one of those disabilities that teachers often discredit. My child was abused by a teacher who, among other things, forced child to write more than the other students because he was certain that lazy parents who never taught the kid to write caused the problem. This continued until we filed complaints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a counselor and have advocated for students to get supports. In some cases, I'm representing the interests of students who don't have a parent representing their interests at all. They can be reading five grade levels behind, and not qualify for supports because there isn't a significant gap between their their so-called ability and their achievement. Why aren't schools supporting these kids, you might ask? Well, some are and get nowhere. Why? Maybe money, or in other cases there may be someone in the school or on the team who doesn't want to "over-identify" students of color or kids who qualify for FARMs, or maybe the resource teacher is biased, or the school psychologist who did the testing is biased, or the school didn't follow proper procedures and broke the law. It's not ok. Don't assume though that there aren't people in the school fighting for these students' rights. Sometimes there is intense fighting even among colleagues over how these decisions are made. There's got to be a better way.

I will say it. The better way is to get all students that qualify for a 504 or IEP out of the school and/or regular class. It needs to go back to the way it used to be. A class for above grade level, a class for on grade level and a special Ed class. This inclusion crap is hurting everyone.

Kind of like how MCPS used to have segregated schools? For federal funds that support public education, students with disabilities have a legal right to be educated in the least restrictive environment. Some need pull out services but most can be educated in the general education classroom with support.

That “inclusion crap” meant my dyslexic & dysgraphic kid with an IEP could take AP Physics C and get a 4 on the AP exam - I seriously doubt his presence is hurting your child. Pretty sure he could teach you a few things as well.

Same. My child could teach AP History yet had to fight to get in the class. Dysgraphia is one of those disabilities that teachers often discredit. My child was abused by a teacher who, among other things, forced child to write more than the other students because he was certain that lazy parents who never taught the kid to write caused the problem. This continued until we filed complaints.

Many children with disabilities have unusual areas of strengths. The key to learning is teaching utilizing how they learn best utilizing their strengths.

My daughter has a difficult time with writing but she has highly unusual auditory memory. Literally she can recite word for word what she hears if she just listens. She learns best just by watching a teacher and listening versus writing notes while the teacher teaches. He neuropsychological data showed how off the chart her auditory memory was so the IEP team added the provision of class notes to her IEP. She had a teacher that insisted that she needed to learn how to take notes and refuse to provide my daughter notes despite the accommodation on the IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably because every other parents wants one for their student?

Oh yes, a child with learning delays and an IEP is a very desirable club to be in. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's a pain in the ass that requires extra work, so not everybody can be accommodated.

This is the real reason.

But how is it extra work? There is a teacher at my kids’ school whose sole job is to do these type of assessments and work with kids who have special needs. It’s her job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's a pain in the ass that requires extra work, so not everybody can be accommodated.

This is the real reason.

But how is it extra work? There is a teacher at my kids’ school whose sole job is to do these type of assessments and work with kids who have special needs. It’s her job.

Special Education Teachers have been swapped out for Para Educators and their educational training is not the same. A Para Educator only needs a high school diploma. Most Para Educators are just babysitters and don’t teach any skills.

MCPS has come up with a discriminatory model where to access to a Special Educator, students have to drop a credit period and take a Resource Class. Even though these classes are presented at IEP teams that they are General Ed classes, the number of students with disabilities show that the placement is a pull out class for students with disabilities. MCPS is not meeting Federal standards for teaching students in the least restrictive environment, especially when students in these Resource Classes are calculated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's a pain in the ass that requires extra work, so not everybody can be accommodated.

This is the real reason.

But how is it extra work? There is a teacher at my kids’ school whose sole job is to do these type of assessments and work with kids who have special needs. It’s her job.

Special Education Teachers have been swapped out for Para Educators and their educational training is not the same. A Para Educator only needs a high school diploma. Most Para Educators are just babysitters and don’t teach any skills.

MCPS has come up with a discriminatory model where to access to a Special Educator, students have to drop a credit period and take a Resource Class. Even though these classes are presented at IEP teams that they are General Ed classes, the number of students with disabilities show that the placement is a pull out class for students with disabilities. MCPS is not meeting Federal standards for teaching students in the least restrictive environment, especially when students in these Resource Classes are calculated.

Why isn’t there a lawsuit? I’m not litigious generally, but it’s shameful to deprive kids of the educational support they need.