divorce from an adult child view

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. It's so sad and tiresome. Even on a thread that literally asks for the adult child view of divorce, it's only a matter of time until people start telling ACOD they need therapy. Just because we're willing to say the truth-- that being an ACOD is a pain.

OP, if you're still reading, here's the adult child view: It's a pain. Try to make it less of a pain.

💯 It will only not be a pain if you never get into another relationship, don’t place too many expectations on your children about visiting, don’t say bad things about your ex, and have enough money that you don’t need their assistance when you’re old.

Well, I think an aging parent who is single can be more needy. I think my ideal would be for my parents to date someone who is healthy, responsible, caring, minds their own business, isn't annoying, is fully vaccinated, and doesn't have annoying or problematic relatives that I'm expected to see. And to have low expectations for my interest in that person's extended family. And the relationship should only lead to marriage if it's financially wise to do so-- don't screw yourself out of Medicaid eligibility for long-term care.

while we are on the topic of ideals .... i would love to win the lottery too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does divorce effect adult children? Does anyone know? Meaning when they are out of the house and married.

Also, does the new relationships your parents have effect you too if they are negative?

Hi! It changes everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

DP and a ACOD. My only-married to each other in-laws cause way more issues and problems than my mother and step-father. The IL are more likely to stop all over boundaries and are the one who have screaming meltdowns over our setting boundaries (which means we are now low-contact). My stepfather (who married my mother when I was an adult) is my kids’ grandfather (especially as my father is very checked out) and the grandkids from his side of the family are my kids cousins. My stepfather has been nothing but supportive and respectful.

This idea that the issues you bring up above are unique to ACOD is very bizarre. It’s very much dependent on the actual people involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

DP and a ACOD. My only-married to each other in-laws cause way more issues and problems than my mother and step-father. The IL are more likely to stop all over boundaries and are the one who have screaming meltdowns over our setting boundaries (which means we are now low-contact). My stepfather (who married my mother when I was an adult) is my kids’ grandfather (especially as my father is very checked out) and the grandkids from his side of the family are my kids cousins. My stepfather has been nothing but supportive and respectful.

This idea that the issues you bring up above are unique to ACOD is very bizarre. It’s very much dependent on the actual people involved.

I am the "therapy pusher" that seemed to offend these ACODs by suggesting therapy. This right here, that's the point. It's not about the divorce, it's about having parents that don't respect boundaries, or are narcists, depressed, manipulative etc.

I have many ACOD friends that are much happier with divorced parents than parents that were together and miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

DP and a ACOD. My only-married to each other in-laws cause way more issues and problems than my mother and step-father. The IL are more likely to stop all over boundaries and are the one who have screaming meltdowns over our setting boundaries (which means we are now low-contact). My stepfather (who married my mother when I was an adult) is my kids’ grandfather (especially as my father is very checked out) and the grandkids from his side of the family are my kids cousins. My stepfather has been nothing but supportive and respectful.

This idea that the issues you bring up above are unique to ACOD is very bizarre. It’s very much dependent on the actual people involved.

I am the "therapy pusher" that seemed to offend these ACODs by suggesting therapy. This right here, that's the point. It's not about the divorce, it's about having parents that don't respect boundaries, or are narcists, depressed, manipulative etc.

I have many ACOD friends that are much happier with divorced parents than parents that were together and miserable.

following to add - i think there is comorbidity with these traits (narcist, mental illness, etc) and failures to maintain a happy healthy marriage or be a proper engaged and respectful parent, so there is probably some correlation happening ... but it isn't the divorce itself that's the problem, it's the parents and their mental state

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

DP and a ACOD. My only-married to each other in-laws cause way more issues and problems than my mother and step-father. The IL are more likely to stop all over boundaries and are the one who have screaming meltdowns over our setting boundaries (which means we are now low-contact). My stepfather (who married my mother when I was an adult) is my kids’ grandfather (especially as my father is very checked out) and the grandkids from his side of the family are my kids cousins. My stepfather has been nothing but supportive and respectful.

This idea that the issues you bring up above are unique to ACOD is very bizarre. It’s very much dependent on the actual people involved.

I am the "therapy pusher" that seemed to offend these ACODs by suggesting therapy. This right here, that's the point. It's not about the divorce, it's about having parents that don't respect boundaries, or are narcists, depressed, manipulative etc.

I have many ACOD friends that are much happier with divorced parents than parents that were together and miserable.

following to add - i think there is comorbidity with these traits (narcist, mental illness, etc) and failures to maintain a happy healthy marriage or be a proper engaged and respectful parent, so there is probably some correlation happening ... but it isn't the divorce itself that's the problem, it's the parents and their mental state

It does stem from their problem mental conditions, but the divorce brings in multiple locations, multiple homes, and potentially a lot of new people in a way that these other things don't necessarily do. When your parents get old and you have to deal with their downsizing, two homes and two locations makes it much harder. You can deal with two people with all these problem traits in one house, or the same two people with problem traits in two houses with new partners who also likely have problem traits. Two nuts or four, which is easier?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: So I'm recently divorced and my adult kids are doing well. One's married but no grandkids yet. It probably helps that exdh and I are amicable enough (we still have a minor so need to be). We have a kid's wedding upcoming and we are working together for the sake of our dc as far as the wedding and dc knows that we are onboard with whatever they choose, like will we walk together or whatever.

It probably also helps that there are no other people involved (no cheating and no new relationships). He probably will seek a relationship. I have no intentions of doing so and could care less whom he dates as long as they treat my kids nicely.

Like I've told them-we're still committed to being (the kids) parents, even though we aren't married anymore.

Right, so, you're in the easy part! It gets WAY harder when you're splitting time with in-laws, dragging little children from household to household, dealing with step-relatives and all the problems and drama they can bring, and trying to deal with two (or four!) really old people in separate locations. Don't think it's always going to be this simple.

It's really salt in the wound how my parents congratulate themselves on being so amicable and so much happier, yet they expect me to do a ton of work to accommodate their divorce and new relationships. If I was only putting in the amount of effort that an adult child of a happy marriage has to do, they'd be much less happy with it. But my children would also lose out in that scenario, so I carry on. It sucks.

You're a special kind of self-centered martyr, ain'tcha?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

DP and a ACOD. My only-married to each other in-laws cause way more issues and problems than my mother and step-father. The IL are more likely to stop all over boundaries and are the one who have screaming meltdowns over our setting boundaries (which means we are now low-contact). My stepfather (who married my mother when I was an adult) is my kids’ grandfather (especially as my father is very checked out) and the grandkids from his side of the family are my kids cousins. My stepfather has been nothing but supportive and respectful.

This idea that the issues you bring up above are unique to ACOD is very bizarre. It’s very much dependent on the actual people involved.

I am the "therapy pusher" that seemed to offend these ACODs by suggesting therapy. This right here, that's the point. It's not about the divorce, it's about having parents that don't respect boundaries, or are narcists, depressed, manipulative etc.

I have many ACOD friends that are much happier with divorced parents than parents that were together and miserable.

following to add - i think there is comorbidity with these traits (narcist, mental illness, etc) and failures to maintain a happy healthy marriage or be a proper engaged and respectful parent, so there is probably some correlation happening ... but it isn't the divorce itself that's the problem, it's the parents and their mental state

It does stem from their problem mental conditions, but the divorce brings in multiple locations, multiple homes, and potentially a lot of new people in a way that these other things don't necessarily do. When your parents get old and you have to deal with their downsizing, two homes and two locations makes it much harder. You can deal with two people with all these problem traits in one house, or the same two people with problem traits in two houses with new partners who also likely have problem traits. Two nuts or four, which is easier?

It’s amazing how divorced people will twist themselves in knots trying to tell us that no, the logistics of two divorced parents in different homes is truly not harder. Did the kids all get magic carpets at the divorce settlement or some secret to the universe that allows us to be present simultaneously in multiple places?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: So I'm recently divorced and my adult kids are doing well. One's married but no grandkids yet. It probably helps that exdh and I are amicable enough (we still have a minor so need to be). We have a kid's wedding upcoming and we are working together for the sake of our dc as far as the wedding and dc knows that we are onboard with whatever they choose, like will we walk together or whatever.

It probably also helps that there are no other people involved (no cheating and no new relationships). He probably will seek a relationship. I have no intentions of doing so and could care less whom he dates as long as they treat my kids nicely.

Like I've told them-we're still committed to being (the kids) parents, even though we aren't married anymore.

Right, so, you're in the easy part! It gets WAY harder when you're splitting time with in-laws, dragging little children from household to household, dealing with step-relatives and all the problems and drama they can bring, and trying to deal with two (or four!) really old people in separate locations. Don't think it's always going to be this simple.

It's really salt in the wound how my parents congratulate themselves on being so amicable and so much happier, yet they expect me to do a ton of work to accommodate their divorce and new relationships. If I was only putting in the amount of effort that an adult child of a happy marriage has to do, they'd be much less happy with it. But my children would also lose out in that scenario, so I carry on. It sucks.

You're a special kind of self-centered martyr, ain'tcha?

Self-centered are the parents who divorced while expecting that they won’t shoulder any of the inconvenience. A lot of these so-called parents could use a dose of shut up. That’s not being a martyr. That’s an adult child sick of listening to their parents’ childish whining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it's not just visiting one *home*. It's visiting one family (mom and her boyfriend), with everything they want to do and everywhere they want to go. And then visiting another (dad and his wife) with their activities and everything. Both sides are trying to cram their stuff into half the time. And there's way more people to plan around and compromise with-- stepsiblings and the boomers' own parents and everything.

Eventually I had to put my foot down and refuse to leave either house to visit new-partner extended family. They come to us or we don't see them. But because my mom is trying to play Matriarch of a Big Happy Family, she's constantly going on about how all "the cousins" (meaning my kids and her boyfriend's grandkids) get along so well. But of course we're not a happy family, they don't get along, and I'm not willing to invest any time or effort in this charade. But this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say "dragging my kids around"-- it's not just going to their houses, it's the whole holiday dealie. And no matter what time of year it is, they're going to be trying to cram their stuff into half the time, and trying to make me spend time with various people that I don't care about and would literally never see again if they broke up.

Much of this has to do with your parents' and relatives' personalities though, rather than the fact they are divorced.

Also, if my parents were married they would probably go to the same church as each other. And they wouldn't have new spouses with extended families to pressure us to spend time with, and we wouldn't have to plan our schedules around so many people. Even though my parents do like to bring their grandkids to church and show them off, and I think it's good and important that my kids spend time their *actual* cousins (rather than their pretend step-cousins), and that would be a manageable amount of stuff to do. It gets out of hand when my parents are trying to have separate mirror-image families in their 50% of our visit. So it really is because of the divorce. Without the divorce, it would be manageable.

I am picking up on a lot of resentment in your posts, you view your mother's relationship as a "charade" and your step siblings as "pretend" siblings rather than accepting your mother can live her life as she chooses, with whomever she loves, and you are able to place boundaries around areas that cross a line for you. You are both adults. Your mother is a human in her own right, fallible as they are.

You complain that visiting two homes is too hard, they pack it full with things they want to do, they want to live this false family life as if your family of origin didn't exist - but you also are pinning for some fictitious world where your parent's are happily married, live in the same house, attend the same church ...

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you might find relief in exploring this with a therapist. And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

I'm sure you do mean it in a nice way, but we ACOD are so often told that we need therapy, as if it's our fault for not liking these logistical burdens placed on us or not thinking the daughter of my mom's boyfriend, whom I've literally never met even one time, as a sibling. As if therapy would somehow change us into people who complied with the demands of others. But that's not what therapy does.

I don't think my mother's relationship itself is a charade, but the idea that my children and her boyfriend's grandchildren are cousins is simply untrue. They are not related by blood, adoption, or marriage, or even an especially long dating relationship. They've met each other twice in their lives. Yet she goes on and on each year about how she's sooooooo sad we aren't "getting the cousins together" because I refuse to schedule my life around it.

I don't pine for my parents to be married-- they were incompatible and unhappy. But I do wish I had a less stressful family, and I do think it's inconsiderate of my parents to not see my point of view. I wish I weren't always having to fend off proposals and surprises and coincidences that lead to me spending time with people I wouldn't agree to see if I were asked. I wish I and my kids could just rest a little while, not be running from event to event and place to place so that my parents can have the life they would have had in an intact family. I've laid down some boundaries to deal with this stuff, but here's the thing-- you can say "boundaries" all day but in some families it just leads to passive-aggressive pouting, trickery, and other drama. It isn't necessarily less work or stress that way.

let me be clear, I do not suggest therapy because I think it's your fault. I suggest therapy because life is hard, and some times we need help to process that, and it seems like you are struggling with that and really ruminating on the negatives.

I myself had my family of origin torn apart after the sudden death of a parent as a child, and subsequent physical abuse for years from a grieving family member. Personally, I would welcome a childhood of divorce and the burden of too many family members too visit over what I faced. It also wasn't my fault, and I also did not like the burdens placed on me ... so I went to therapy for years until I could give that child version of myself what I was not given as a child. We owe ourselves more in life than to stay in a discontent place.

I don't fault you for not feeling the kinship for the "cousins" - but this is where boundaries are important. If it's too much to ask of you, say no. If you do not like the treatment you are getting, you stop participating.

You state you think it's inconsiderate for your parents not to see your point of view - but maybe they do, but it's just that they are now prioritizing themselves as I assume you are a grown adult. Maybe they are just jerks and/or narcissist (as refences to the emotional manipulation you allude to), and my answer would still be boundaries and therapy for you.

You seem to be most exhausted by the proposals to visit with lots of extended members of your mother's network. You say you have laid down boundaries, which leads to pouting and manipulative tactics ... and it isn't any less work or stress. The point is ... boundaries work over time, your mother will learn your boundaries so long as you are consistent, just as you do with children. It becomes easier the longer you establish your boundaries. To cave in is to take the easy road, it's immediate gratification (appease your mother) and undermining your values and boundaries.

Or, you can just continue to complain, and complain, and complain - your choice!

NP here-Give it a rest!

The thread is about perspectives from ACOD, for the benefit of the OP. So I guess the OP can learn from this that ACOD are often told that they need therapy, and that ACOD should establish boundaries. The thing is, when ACOD have children of their own, it's hard to do boundaries that don't result in a scene in front of the children, or depriving the children of time with their grandparents, or doing weird stuff like leaving for a hotel at 9 AM on Christmas morning. Maybe in time boundaries would work, but in that time children grow up and you can't get those holiday times back. Especially in a divorce situation where family time is already so limited, it's a steep price for the children to pay. So many of us find that our best option is to suck it up while the children are young.

For the OP, I think it's important to understand that ACOD may not choose to go along with your new family. You might want them to like your new boyfriend as much as you do, but they probably won't. You might want them to do various things, but they'll be like "Boundaries!" and go out of the house, taking your grandchildren with them.

DP and a ACOD. My only-married to each other in-laws cause way more issues and problems than my mother and step-father. The IL are more likely to stop all over boundaries and are the one who have screaming meltdowns over our setting boundaries (which means we are now low-contact). My stepfather (who married my mother when I was an adult) is my kids’ grandfather (especially as my father is very checked out) and the grandkids from his side of the family are my kids cousins. My stepfather has been nothing but supportive and respectful.

This idea that the issues you bring up above are unique to ACOD is very bizarre. It’s very much dependent on the actual people involved.

I am the "therapy pusher" that seemed to offend these ACODs by suggesting therapy. This right here, that's the point. It's not about the divorce, it's about having parents that don't respect boundaries, or are narcists, depressed, manipulative etc.

I have many ACOD friends that are much happier with divorced parents than parents that were together and miserable.

following to add - i think there is comorbidity with these traits (narcist, mental illness, etc) and failures to maintain a happy healthy marriage or be a proper engaged and respectful parent, so there is probably some correlation happening ... but it isn't the divorce itself that's the problem, it's the parents and their mental state

It does stem from their problem mental conditions, but the divorce brings in multiple locations, multiple homes, and potentially a lot of new people in a way that these other things don't necessarily do. When your parents get old and you have to deal with their downsizing, two homes and two locations makes it much harder. You can deal with two people with all these problem traits in one house, or the same two people with problem traits in two houses with new partners who also likely have problem traits. Two nuts or four, which is easier?

It’s amazing how divorced people will twist themselves in knots trying to tell us that no, the logistics of two divorced parents in different homes is truly not harder. Did the kids all get magic carpets at the divorce settlement or some secret to the universe that allows us to be present simultaneously in multiple places?

I fly Amicable Divorce Airlines-- if your parents lie and say they get along, you get two trips for the price of one. I'm also on the Divorced Aging Parents schedule at work where I get twice as much vacation time, but still get paid enough to help my parents afford their separate assisted living suites. Anyone who doesn't have these perks is a selfish martyr!

[Anonymous]

I’m an ACOD and sorry but some of us act so entitled and dramatic. “My kids have to split time with three sets of grandparents? The horror! My selfish mother/father should have lived in misery forever.”

Divorce does sometimes, actually frequently, have a long-lasting, negative emotional impact on the kids which can impact marriages as adults. But really, a happy divorce is 100 times better than a miserable home life. Adults who divorce can and should make the effort to be the bigger person and have the most conflict-free divorce possible, and never say anything bad about their ex. If you do that, it might be an overall negative but it’s unlikely. And all the whining about holiday logistics is just something to ignore.

Marriage is hard for everybody and just because an ACOD has a hard time with it doesn’t mean it’s his parent’s fault. Everybody has to manage their own shit at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an ACOD and sorry but some of us act so entitled and dramatic. “My kids have to split time with three sets of grandparents? The horror! My selfish mother/father should have lived in misery forever.”

Divorce does sometimes, actually frequently, have a long-lasting, negative emotional impact on the kids which can impact marriages as adults. But really, a happy divorce is 100 times better than a miserable home life. Adults who divorce can and should make the effort to be the bigger person and have the most conflict-free divorce possible, and never say anything bad about their ex. If you do that, it might be an overall negative but it’s unlikely. And all the whining about holiday logistics is just something to ignore.

Marriage is hard for everybody and just because an ACOD has a hard time with it doesn’t mean it’s his parent’s fault. Everybody has to manage their own shit at some point.

I think most of the complaints come from ACOD of unhappy divorces and unhappy remarriages. It's a lot to impose on your children and grandchildren of you're just going to end up as miserable as you were before.

[Anonymous]

+1 to posters saying that married in-laws aren’t necessarily better. The first time I met my MIL she made snarky, self-righteous comment about her not being divorced unlike my parents. But my husband has issues likely caused by his parents’ crappy marriage, plus they really aren’t easy to be around because they bicker all the time. I like my in-laws generally but it’s not the case that I have more baggage than my husband.

And neither of us really blames our parents for some of our issues. Our issues might not be our fault but we are the ones responsible for dealing with them.