South Asian male applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.

Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.

OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.

Unless their next-door neighbor is first gen or URM, that probably isn't true. You said less accomplishment, so eliminate athletes. An unhooked white male has the same chance of getting in as an unhooked South Asian male- virtually zero. White numbers look better because of hooked students, but the unhooked ones have the same impossible odds.

you want to cry over unhooked white applicants - look to athletes, legacies and donors. All white.

This is factually untrue. There are plenty of non-white athletes who are recruited. Look at the rosters of sports teams at the elite schools. Is it a sea to sea of white faces? No. Far from it. Same for legacies and donors. There are more and more non-white legacies every year because the elite colleges diversified over time. And there are rich non-white donors and children of politically connected people (cough cough Obama girls cough cough).

You’re wrong. All three categories are about 70% white. Because you can name check Obama doesn’t mean anything.

43% of all white admits to Harvard were athletes, legacy or donors. But we don’t talk about that much do we.

So that means that the most discriminated against group is unhooked white kids?

[Anonymous]

I have two kids at HYPS and to be honest I would not want them at a school that was purely merit based on scores and standard ECs.

The lack of diversity would turn the school experience into a grind-y no fun experience preparing for med school admission or engineering jobs at Facebook or Google. Boring!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.

Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?

Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?

OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.

When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.

Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.

And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.

Sports in the US mean the student is well rounded and a team player. This has concept has been valued in US colleges for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Here is some advice you can actually use. Forget HYPSM and most of the ivies, except maybe Cornell maybe. Don't count on these schools or waste your ED/SCEA card on them. You will most probably come up empty and frustrated

If you are able to
1) flag that you don't need aid. It makes a difference even if everybody tells you it doesn't. Once you get in, you can apply for aid for years 2-4. and reveal your real need. You are going to have to eat the first year cost to boost your chances. Don't submit any aid forms or Fafsa or anything else.
2) Target one of the following schools during the ED round: WashU, Emory, Vanderbilt, Uchicago, Duke, CMU, NYU but don't count on it
3) Avoid showing that your child wants to do CS, Econ, Engineering, business, pre-med. If possible tailor your app to highlight another major with his EC's
4) Have a backup plan for the state flagship. That's probably where he will most probably land.

Sorry. But that's the reality for the South Asian male today. It sucks, but it's what it is

#1 - What?!? If you don’t apply for financial aid at time of admission, particularly a need-aware college may choose not to consider any future aid requests for institutional grants, barring a significant change in circumstances. That’s a risky move that the colleges have already thought through. You still might get federal aid. But then what’s the point of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Here is some advice you can actually use. Forget HYPSM and most of the ivies, except maybe Cornell maybe. Don't count on these schools or waste your ED/SCEA card on them. You will most probably come up empty and frustrated

If you are able to
1) flag that you don't need aid. It makes a difference even if everybody tells you it doesn't. Once you get in, you can apply for aid for years 2-4. and reveal your real need. You are going to have to eat the first year cost to boost your chances. Don't submit any aid forms or Fafsa or anything else.
2) Target one of the following schools during the ED round: WashU, Emory, Vanderbilt, Uchicago, Duke, CMU, NYU but don't count on it
3) Avoid showing that your child wants to do CS, Econ, Engineering, business, pre-med. If possible tailor your app to highlight another major with his EC's
4) Have a backup plan for the state flagship. That's probably where he will most probably land.

Sorry. But that's the reality for the South Asian male today. It sucks, but it's what it is

#1 - What?!? If you don’t apply for financial aid at time of admission, particularly a need-aware college may choose not to consider any future aid requests for institutional grants, barring a significant change in circumstances. That’s a risky move that the colleges have already thought through. You still might get federal aid. But then what’s the point of this?

Certainly false at need blind colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Here is some advice you can actually use. Forget HYPSM and most of the ivies, except maybe Cornell maybe. Don't count on these schools or waste your ED/SCEA card on them. You will most probably come up empty and frustrated

If you are able to
1) flag that you don't need aid. It makes a difference even if everybody tells you it doesn't. Once you get in, you can apply for aid for years 2-4. and reveal your real need. You are going to have to eat the first year cost to boost your chances. Don't submit any aid forms or Fafsa or anything else.
2) Target one of the following schools during the ED round: WashU, Emory, Vanderbilt, Uchicago, Duke, CMU, NYU but don't count on it
3) Avoid showing that your child wants to do CS, Econ, Engineering, business, pre-med. If possible tailor your app to highlight another major with his EC's
4) Have a backup plan for the state flagship. That's probably where he will most probably land.

Sorry. But that's the reality for the South Asian male today. It sucks, but it's what it is

#1 - What?!? If you don’t apply for financial aid at time of admission, particularly a need-aware college may choose not to consider any future aid requests for institutional grants, barring a significant change in circumstances. That’s a risky move that the colleges have already thought through. You still might get federal aid. But then what’s the point of this?

Aid decisions are made fresh every year based on Fafsa and college specific application. If you don't submit any docs first year, they willl make a fresh decision based on what you submit during Spring/Summer of freshman year for next year. That's how it's done in need blind colleges. They don't deny you aid one year because you didn't ask for aid the previous year. The key is not to submit any financial docs first year, if you are willing to eat the cost for a year to boost admission chances

[Anonymous]

I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

When you say things like "Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality", it's difficult to believe anything else you say. It makes it seem more likely that one or more of the adjectives you're using to describe your DS (excellent, top, rigorous, prestigious, great) is overly optimistic. This isn't at all meant to be belittling, just to point out that many parents of all backgrounds are rightly proud of their children's accomplishments but don't realize how many other students have a similar list.

There are 36k US students in the top 1% graduating every year. And there are 200k to 250k international students ENROLLING in US universities every year, with probably half being just as capable as that 36k from the US. Let's say it's only 64k of the international students, making 100k extremely capable students competing for many fewer spots than that at the most selective colleges. This leads to many, many very strong students (perhaps including your undoubtedly highly talented and intelligent son, although there's still time) who aren't offered admission to the most well-known universities.

Like you said, because they're so talented and ambitious, though, they'll be fine wherever they end up. Penn State, Michigan, Maryland, etc. are at least as capable of giving your son a bight future in STEM as any of the Ivies or Duke or Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.

Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.

OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.

Unless their next-door neighbor is first gen or URM, that probably isn't true. You said less accomplishment, so eliminate athletes. An unhooked white male has the same chance of getting in as an unhooked South Asian male- virtually zero. White numbers look better because of hooked students, but the unhooked ones have the same impossible odds.

you want to cry over unhooked white applicants - look to athletes, legacies and donors. All white.

This is factually untrue. There are plenty of non-white athletes who are recruited. Look at the rosters of sports teams at the elite schools. Is it a sea to sea of white faces? No. Far from it. Same for legacies and donors. There are more and more non-white legacies every year because the elite colleges diversified over time. And there are rich non-white donors and children of politically connected people (cough cough Obama girls cough cough).

You’re wrong. All three categories are about 70% white. Because you can name check Obama doesn’t mean anything.

43% of all white admits to Harvard were athletes, legacy or donors. But we don’t talk about that much do we.

So that means that the most discriminated against group is unhooked white kids?

No, it means that the single largest beneficiaries of non academic based preferences are whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.

Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.

OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.

Unless their next-door neighbor is first gen or URM, that probably isn't true. You said less accomplishment, so eliminate athletes. An unhooked white male has the same chance of getting in as an unhooked South Asian male- virtually zero. White numbers look better because of hooked students, but the unhooked ones have the same impossible odds.

you want to cry over unhooked white applicants - look to athletes, legacies and donors. All white.

This is factually untrue. There are plenty of non-white athletes who are recruited. Look at the rosters of sports teams at the elite schools. Is it a sea to sea of white faces? No. Far from it. Same for legacies and donors. There are more and more non-white legacies every year because the elite colleges diversified over time. And there are rich non-white donors and children of politically connected people (cough cough Obama girls cough cough).

You’re wrong. All three categories are about 70% white. Because you can name check Obama doesn’t mean anything.

43% of all white admits to Harvard were athletes, legacy or donors. But we don’t talk about that much do we.

So that means that the most discriminated against group is unhooked white kids?

No, it means that the single largest beneficiaries of non academic based preferences are whites.

Both can be true. The majority of white applicants are not legacies or athletes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.

Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.

OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.

This PP posts their website often. It is likely more about finding opportunities to share their (business?) with forum readers than relevancy to the topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.

Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?

Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?

OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.

When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.

PP -- this Hackathon, national competion-winning applicant (and his parents) likely needed to broaden his view of "excellent" colleges -- go beyond the Top 20 US News National Universities. Post-pandemic admissions means that everyone needs to shift what could be the appropriate fit. Expect the worst in this process but be happy when it pleasantly surprises you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

Troll.

Why do you write "Troll" to this PP? Other than the provocative "lying on the application" aspect, I see nothing unusual about this PPs post. I have worked with many South Asian students. I have not seen the unethical lying, but otherwise the rest of the PPs post makes sense to me based on my experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

Troll.

Why do you write "Troll" to this PP? Other than the provocative "lying on the application" aspect, I see nothing unusual about this PPs post. I have worked with many South Asian students. I have not seen the unethical lying, but otherwise the rest of the PPs post makes sense to me based on my experience.

I have heard stories about the lying on applications from my non-SA kids - saying that the SA kids themselves say that their parents and prep programs urge this on them - but have been dismissing it as “just talk” by teenagers. Guess that I need to have more faith in my kids.