Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

What happened to the OCD poster who kept insisting this was all a "straight" lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current 4th grade parent. Last year, they screened everyone. We eventually got a letter saying that our kid was put into the "pool" as "eligible" for the CES, but he was not drawn for a spot. We know lots of people in the same situation, and a few whose eligible kids WERE drawn in the lottery and subsequently went to the CES.

At our elementary, there was a substantial enough cohort of kids that were eligible but not drawn in the lottery that the school is now running a self-contained Enriched Literacy Curriculum class for 4th graders. From what we were told, it's the same curriculum used for literacy at the CES. It's definitely a big step up from what my kid was getting last year (virtually) and feels appropriately challenging for bright 4th graders.

THis is exactly what is suppose to happen going forward, minus the lottery. The CES should be a program for those that don’t have a big enough cohort at their own school. Otherwise, the cohort at home schools could utilize the Enriched Literacy and Math curriculum s.

I support this thinking as long s there is recognition that there are some schools where there is NOT a cohort and that kids art those schools should have a solution (central magnet or option to go to nearby school with enough cohort). Some people use PP’s thinking to excuse getting rid of the magnets entirely and that would really leave some kids out to dry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like they greatly expanded the "considered" pool for the lottery in order to get their desired demographics. For the CESes they considered 11,446 students. Isn't that almost every child in that grade? The same goes for middle schools where the "considered" pool was almost double what it was in previous years. Does anyone have an explanation for how this happened and why this was done in such secrecy?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/schoolchoice/210818%20CES%20Secondary%20App%20Prog%20Admission%20Results.pdf

It wasn't done in secrecy, though. MCPS was transparent about the cut-off for the lottery, any anyone who was paying attention would be aware that the criteria would lead to a larger pool.

[Anonymous]

They went way beyond that PP.

[Anonymous]

I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS:
Parents have a right to see see the average grades, and test scores for the kids who made the lottery versus previous years. They have a right to understand who was in the lottery pool, what cut offs were used, and why the decision to use whatever criteria they used was chosen, and why the decision was made without public discussion.

When other school districts made similar changes to their magnet programs there were forums, even virtual ones, where parents and other stakeholders could discuss and debate and there could be transparency.

Why is MCPS, a public entity funded by our taxpayer dollars, allowed to act in such secrecy and without any oversight?

Any interested parent can write a MPIA request for this information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

Even Harvard doesn’t do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

You keep repeating the same argument over and over again. No, people won't "cheat." What other districts have done and what is becoming the norm is that there is a formula that helps level the playing field. Test scores, grades all of that count but if you have ever been FARMS or ESOL you get extra points to make up for disadvantages in schooling, home life, broader societal discrimination. If you look at the data this has helped increase the percentage of minority students by a whole lot.

I support universal screening. I support giving an advantage to kids who have been disadvantaged. What I think is very wrong is the lack of public debate on the issue and the lack of transparency on the data. They have also failed to adequately address concerns from the Asian American community that what they are doing is discriminatory. I don't know enough to say it is or not but I think they owe the community more information. You can't just ignore a whole racial group like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

You keep repeating the same argument over and over again. No, people won't "cheat." What other districts have done and what is becoming the norm is that there is a formula that helps level the playing field. Test scores, grades all of that count but if you have ever been FARMS or ESOL you get extra points to make up for disadvantages in schooling, home life, broader societal discrimination. If you look at the data this has helped increase the percentage of minority students by a whole lot.

I support universal screening. I support giving an advantage to kids who have been disadvantaged. What I think is very wrong is the lack of public debate on the issue and the lack of transparency on the data. They have also failed to adequately address concerns from the Asian American community that what they are doing is discriminatory. I don't know enough to say it is or not but I think they owe the community more information. You can't just ignore a whole racial group like that.

I agree that a public debate and transparency on the data is needed.

I personally think that enriched/advanced curriculum should be available at all schools and ALL students should be screened for advanced programs.

I try not to get frustrated with the parents in this county but sometimes it is difficult. People are so selfish and competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

You keep repeating the same argument over and over again. No, people won't "cheat." What other districts have done and what is becoming the norm is that there is a formula that helps level the playing field. Test scores, grades all of that count but if you have ever been FARMS or ESOL you get extra points to make up for disadvantages in schooling, home life, broader societal discrimination. If you look at the data this has helped increase the percentage of minority students by a whole lot.

I support universal screening. I support giving an advantage to kids who have been disadvantaged. What I think is very wrong is the lack of public debate on the issue and the lack of transparency on the data. They have also failed to adequately address concerns from the Asian American community that what they are doing is discriminatory. I don't know enough to say it is or not but I think they owe the community more information. You can't just ignore a whole racial group like that.

I honestly don't think that public debate would be useful here. Look at what happened when MCPS tried to organize public debates on a boundary study - angry white dudes ended up screaming in the faces of children of color, and lots of folks stood up and said frankly racist things about kids who were in the room.

Parents are going to advocate for their own children, but MCPS is charged with looking out for the entire community, not an individual child or family. We elect the school board to hold MCPS accountable to that goal, and if we don't like the job they are doing, we can run for office or support someone with different ideals/values/politics. But what we can't and shouldn't do is foster a system whereby MCPS is forced to design policies only to service the loudest parents with the most free time.

As for concerns from Asian American families, I'm sympathetic to the charge that MCPS is changing the rules just as those families had become successful within the system. However, the metrics on the old system were really bad, with white and Asian students absolutely dominating the magnet process in a district that is majority Black and Hispanic. In 2021, that's just not acceptable anymore. More to the point, the old system left a lot of talent on the table, because it was bad at identifying gifted students of color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

You keep repeating the same argument over and over again. No, people won't "cheat." What other districts have done and what is becoming the norm is that there is a formula that helps level the playing field. Test scores, grades all of that count but if you have ever been FARMS or ESOL you get extra points to make up for disadvantages in schooling, home life, broader societal discrimination. If you look at the data this has helped increase the percentage of minority students by a whole lot.

I support universal screening. I support giving an advantage to kids who have been disadvantaged. What I think is very wrong is the lack of public debate on the issue and the lack of transparency on the data. They have also failed to adequately address concerns from the Asian American community that what they are doing is discriminatory. I don't know enough to say it is or not but I think they owe the community more information. You can't just ignore a whole racial group like that.

I honestly don't think that public debate would be useful here. Look at what happened when MCPS tried to organize public debates on a boundary study - angry white dudes ended up screaming in the faces of children of color, and lots of folks stood up and said frankly racist things about kids who were in the room.

Parents are going to advocate for their own children, but MCPS is charged with looking out for the entire community, not an individual child or family. We elect the school board to hold MCPS accountable to that goal, and if we don't like the job they are doing, we can run for office or support someone with different ideals/values/politics. But what we can't and shouldn't do is foster a system whereby MCPS is forced to design policies only to service the loudest parents with the most free time.

As for concerns from Asian American families, I'm sympathetic to the charge that MCPS is changing the rules just as those families had become successful within the system. However, the metrics on the old system were really bad, with white and Asian students absolutely dominating the magnet process in a district that is majority Black and Hispanic. In 2021, that's just not acceptable anymore. More to the point, the old system left a lot of talent on the table, because it was bad at identifying gifted students of color.

MCPS is majority hispanic/latino and white-non-hispanic. Give it a few years, and demographics will be even more pronounced with an even larger percentage of hispanic students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know what people want from MCPS.

There is no world in which the district does a straight "top 100 test scorers" approach. There is always going to be some nuance in admissions, with the goal of admitting a group of kids who for whatever reason would not have their needs met at their home school.

If MCPS explains the exact formula, people will immediately work to subvert and cheat the system (which is what happened when folks found out the exact tests being used).

You keep repeating the same argument over and over again. No, people won't "cheat." What other districts have done and what is becoming the norm is that there is a formula that helps level the playing field. Test scores, grades all of that count but if you have ever been FARMS or ESOL you get extra points to make up for disadvantages in schooling, home life, broader societal discrimination. If you look at the data this has helped increase the percentage of minority students by a whole lot.

I support universal screening. I support giving an advantage to kids who have been disadvantaged. What I think is very wrong is the lack of public debate on the issue and the lack of transparency on the data. They have also failed to adequately address concerns from the Asian American community that what they are doing is discriminatory. I don't know enough to say it is or not but I think they owe the community more information. You can't just ignore a whole racial group like that.

I honestly don't think that public debate would be useful here. Look at what happened when MCPS tried to organize public debates on a boundary study - angry white dudes ended up screaming in the faces of children of color, and lots of folks stood up and said frankly racist things about kids who were in the room.

Parents are going to advocate for their own children, but MCPS is charged with looking out for the entire community, not an individual child or family. We elect the school board to hold MCPS accountable to that goal, and if we don't like the job they are doing, we can run for office or support someone with different ideals/values/politics. But what we can't and shouldn't do is foster a system whereby MCPS is forced to design policies only to service the loudest parents with the most free time.

As for concerns from Asian American families, I'm sympathetic to the charge that MCPS is changing the rules just as those families had become successful within the system. However, the metrics on the old system were really bad, with white and Asian students absolutely dominating the magnet process in a district that is majority Black and Hispanic. In 2021, that's just not acceptable anymore. More to the point, the old system left a lot of talent on the table, because it was bad at identifying gifted students of color.

This is the most undemocractic thing to come out of someone whose last name does not end in Trump.
Just because white and Asian students dominate a program doesn't make it "bad" just like having an NBA and an NFL that has few Asian players - disproportionate than they are in the country - is "bad." This is your problem and the MCPS problem. They need to find a way to serve all communities but it's so discriminatory and frankly racist to assume that just because Asians are doing well in something that it's necessarily bad.

What's wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

What is distressing is that it's politically correct on this board and in MCPS in general to say racist things about Asian Americans cheating and taking advantage of the system but not about other minority groups. It's really painful to see how our neighbors think.

[Anonymous]

Jill Ortman-Fouse to Asian American parents: "“Your pursuit of the American dream is not necessarily everyone's pursuit of the American dream."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What happened to the OCD poster who kept insisting this was all a "straight" lottery?

You mean the crazy person who was insisting it was a weighted lottery when they expressly said it was a lottery.