Top undergrad feeders for T14 Law, T25 Medical School, PhD programs, Silicon Valley and Wall Street

[Anonymous]

This is a great list, and destroys the constant pernicious myth that undergrad doesn't matter but rather "it's your last degree that matters", "it's your first job that matters", "graduate schools don't care about undergraduate college", "medical schools don't care about where you went for undergrad", etc. that people tell themselves to feel better.

The simple fact is the top students tend to go to top schools (including the well-regarded state flagships for those with financial constraints), where they receive more rigorous instruction, more competitive colleagues, more academic opportunities, etc. and ergo stand out more.

The prestige and reputation of the university only helps them stand out to graduate/medical/law schools and employers even more.

Of course this doesn't mean that one should go $350k in debt for a name brand school. But it does mean that students should do the best they can do and join the best college they can afford (including fit).

Some of the lists are arbitrary - tech and engineering companies have no distinction. Top PhD programs makes no sense - top in what sense? Top 25 medical schools is not a thing, any more than top 20 or top 15, why choose top 25? Where are the M7 MBA's? What are the top startups?

But it's still very useful for students who go to college for practical concerns - employment and career advancement - far more than the arbitrary ranking criteria of US News.

[Anonymous]

OP doesn't understand how T14 law admission works, and accordingly, is confusing a lot of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't understand how T14 law admission works, and accordingly, is confusing a lot of people.

So please tell us about your understanding of how T14 law admission works!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really interesting thread. But what makes these the "T15" tech companies? Where's Amazon, Facebook and Paypal — even Snapchat, Square, and Uber? Maybe the list remains the same but maybe not. I assume San Jose State is missing from the colleges, too, which makes me wary of this ranking.

T15 Tech Companies (Adobe, AirBnB, Apple, DocuSign, Github, Google, HubSpot, LinkedIn, Lyft, Microsoft, Netflix, NVIDIA, SalesForce, Slack, and Twitter), adjusted for undergrad enrollment.
1. CMU
2. Stanford
3. Caltech
4. Harvey Mudd
5. Columbia
6. MIT
7. Georgia Tech
8. USC
9. Rice
10. Duke
11. Princeton
12. Berkeley
13. Cornell
14. Brown
15. Penn
16. Harvard
17. University of Washington
18. Santa Clara
19. Northwestern
20. Northeastern
21. Swarthmore
22. Yale
23. UCSD
24. UIUC
25. WashU - St. Louis

San Jose State is ranked #22 on the list of raw numbers, above schools like Duke, Brown, Harvard, and UVA.

Notice the city in the school name?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Odd omissions on the tech front, and it's not as if those are hard to source as every kid updates their LinkedIn immediately after getting an internship and FT offer. Maybe someone can email the website to ask them about it.

And I know T14 law is a thing but is T25 medical school? I've never heard of that, seems arbitrary, and puts the finger on the scale of schools with an alleged T25 medical school because often the top feeder is the university's own undergrad. Getting into any of the 200 or so US medical schools is considered a feat, I don't see the point is cutting that off at T25. I mean GWU is considered #60 medical school, is any parent going to be upset their kid only got into GWU medical school? Of course not.

Yes, getting into any accredited medical school is an accomplishment and you can do fine. T25 may do better getting academic positions, but if that is not of interest, it doesn't make that much difference career-wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a great list, and destroys the constant pernicious myth that undergrad doesn't matter but rather "it's your last degree that matters", "it's your first job that matters", "graduate schools don't care about undergraduate college", "medical schools don't care about where you went for undergrad", etc. that people tell themselves to feel better.

The simple fact is the top students tend to go to top schools (including the well-regarded state flagships for those with financial constraints), where they receive more rigorous instruction, more competitive colleagues, more academic opportunities, etc. and ergo stand out more.

The prestige and reputation of the university only helps them stand out to graduate/medical/law schools and employers even more.

Of course this doesn't mean that one should go $350k in debt for a name brand school. But it does mean that students should do the best they can do and join the best college they can afford (including fit).

Some of the lists are arbitrary - tech and engineering companies have no distinction. Top PhD programs makes no sense - top in what sense? Top 25 medical schools is not a thing, any more than top 20 or top 15, why choose top 25? Where are the M7 MBA's? What are the top startups?

But it's still very useful for students who go to college for practical concerns - employment and career advancement - far more than the arbitrary ranking criteria of US News.

I don't agree with you on a number of points. Where you go to college has less impact on admissions to top law and medical schools, which are number driven. The reason why selective schools dominate on a per capita basis is largely that they have a higher percentage of students that are capable of getting a high score on the LSAT or MCAT and getting top grades. Top PhD programs does make sense because you will be more employable as an academic, but I don't think that data is really for top PhD program placement. It is the per capita production of undergraduates that go on to get PhDs at any U.S. school. Top tech firms do pay more, but what a list like this will miss is that significant percentages of kids from schools like Stanford, Berkeley, etc. are going to go to companies that are closer to start-up phase.

There are other areas where the school will help you. If you want to work on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley, attending a school that is recruited and is a feeder will give you a leg up. Attending a school nearby will also help as you can be more available for interviews, internships, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway from these lists is that the "top" public universities, Vandy, Northwestern, and UChicago are quite overrated. And also, Northwestern alums control newsrooms where these rankings and their methodologies are tweaked. Nobody in real life thinks Northwestern undergrad is "elite".

+1.

Public universities admit applicants by major, and it's often next to impossible to switch majors. If one normalizes by the number of students in the related majors, it will be a total different story.

Many don't admit by major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't understand how T14 law admission works, and accordingly, is confusing a lot of people.

So please tell us about your understanding of how T14 law admission works!

T14 law school admission is almost entirely LSAT and college GPA combined. Plus URM hook, if applicable.

[Anonymous]

All of these may be misleading if you just look at it by adjusting for undergraduate enrollment. Take a look at the medical school list. Hopkins ranks just ahead of Harvard. The two schools have approximately the same number of undergraduates. But if you look at the actual number of applicants in the AAMC document below, you can see Hopkins had 455 applicants vs. 226 at Harvard, almost exactly twice as many. Hopkins is almost certainly higher solely because a much larger percentage of graduates are applying to medical school compared to Harvard.

https://www.aamc.org/media/9636/download

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't understand how T14 law admission works, and accordingly, is confusing a lot of people.

So please tell us about your understanding of how T14 law admission works!

T14 law school admission is almost entirely LSAT and college GPA combined. Plus URM hook, if applicable.

If the median LSAT score is in the high 160s/low 170s for most of these schools, does the simple combination of LSAT and college GPA really provide enough of a differentiation? Just by the enrollment numbers, isn't is reasonable to think that it's at least easier to get into Yale Law from Yale and Chicago Law from Chicago? As people note, there are plenty of smart people going to plenty of colleges. It just seems that you would not see a consistent preference for the same few undergraduate institutions if this is all that is involved.

otherwise, you should definitely attend Yale or Harvard because the grade inflation is so awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway from these lists is that the "top" public universities, Vandy, Northwestern, and UChicago are quite overrated. And also, Northwestern alums control newsrooms where these rankings and their methodologies are tweaked. Nobody in real life thinks Northwestern undergrad is "elite".

Obnoxious much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't understand how T14 law admission works, and accordingly, is confusing a lot of people.

So please tell us about your understanding of how T14 law admission works!

T14 law school admission is almost entirely LSAT and college GPA combined. Plus URM hook, if applicable.

If the median LSAT score is in the high 160s/low 170s for most of these schools, does the simple combination of LSAT and college GPA really provide enough of a differentiation? Just by the enrollment numbers, isn't is reasonable to think that it's at least easier to get into Yale Law from Yale and Chicago Law from Chicago? As people note, there are plenty of smart people going to plenty of colleges. It just seems that you would not see a consistent preference for the same few undergraduate institutions if this is all that is involved.

otherwise, you should definitely attend Yale or Harvard because the grade inflation is so awesome.

Grade inflation is pretty big everywhere, but yes, particularly at elite schools. Certainly there are other factors in admission, but these schools are significantly numbers driven due to rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway from these lists is that the "top" public universities, Vandy, Northwestern, and UChicago are quite overrated. And also, Northwestern alums control newsrooms where these rankings and their methodologies are tweaked. Nobody in real life thinks Northwestern undergrad is "elite".

Obnoxious much?

Oh, trust me, dear, you just pissed off the HYPSM prestige defense squad again!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway from these lists is that the "top" public universities, Vandy, Northwestern, and UChicago are quite overrated. And also, Northwestern alums control newsrooms where these rankings and their methodologies are tweaked. Nobody in real life thinks Northwestern undergrad is "elite".

Obnoxious much?

Oh, trust me, dear, you just pissed off the HYPSM prestige defense squad again!

+1. They are already upset at how HYPSM is not T5 in every ranking but rather went to schools like Duke, Caltech, JHU, Columbia, Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore, Penn, and Northwestern. Brace yourselves for a major sh*tstorm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't understand how T14 law admission works, and accordingly, is confusing a lot of people.

So please tell us about your understanding of how T14 law admission works!

T14 law school admission is almost entirely LSAT and college GPA combined. Plus URM hook, if applicable.

If the median LSAT score is in the high 160s/low 170s for most of these schools, does the simple combination of LSAT and college GPA really provide enough of a differentiation? Just by the enrollment numbers, isn't is reasonable to think that it's at least easier to get into Yale Law from Yale and Chicago Law from Chicago? As people note, there are plenty of smart people going to plenty of colleges. It just seems that you would not see a consistent preference for the same few undergraduate institutions if this is all that is involved.

otherwise, you should definitely attend Yale or Harvard because the grade inflation is so awesome.

Grade inflation is pretty big everywhere, but yes, particularly at elite schools. Certainly there are other factors in admission, but these schools are significantly numbers driven due to rankings.

It's not just grade inflation, it's the sort of go-getter ambitious teens who sought out an elite college when they were 17 y/o also obsess over their GPA and are laser-focused on post-college goals. They realize how important GPA is for those goals, while the average college freshman really doesn't. The average college freshman doesn't sweat a B here and there or even a C. They're partying that first semester, letting loose and letting the GPA slack a bit. While the freshman go-getter is using test banks, obsessing over certain sections taught by certain professors, starting study groups with like-minded peers, things like that. Not just striving for not just a "good" GPA but a perfect GPA. Those sort of kids also exist at the state schools but nowhere near the % of each class is like that.

And let's be honest, all things being equal, elite law schools are giving the nod to the applicant from the more elite undergrad. Elitists are elitists, after all.