Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$135k in “just the basics” utilities, mortgage, gas, car?!

No. You have decided that luxuries are “basics.” You have bought a home in an expensive area and leased an expensive car. When luxuries become necessities, you do start to feel poor.

You’re clueless. Expensive area in DC means anywhere without a TERRIBLE commute and horrible schools. A middle class style house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$135k in “just the basics” utilities, mortgage, gas, car?!

No. You have decided that luxuries are “basics.” You have bought a home in an expensive area and leased an expensive car. When luxuries become necessities, you do start to feel poor.

I said that's my entire planned budget. That includes everything that I plan for - including food for 5 people, medical bills, household items, etc. By far the largest expense is $3800 (PITI) for my mortgage. Yes, I opted to live somewhere close to work with decent public schools. Could I knock this down by $1000/month by living much further out - yes. My quality of life would suffer in ways that aren't worth the savings to me. The best money allocated in that budget is about $5K a year for a cleaning lady. I'd cut lots of other stuff before that.

If my $23,000 Kia is an expensive car, I guess I'm doing something wrong.

I also never said I feel poor. I just said I don't feel as rich as I thought I would making over $300K a year.

Amen. PP is clueless if he doesn’t see how someone driving a Kia and living in a smallish house doesn’t feel RICH. Besides that this all requires 2 salaries to drive the Kia. This is America. Not Nigeria.

[Anonymous]

The ONLY way I’d say you can claim to be middleclass on a top 5% income, is if it costs you most of your income paying for required medical expenses. Since having cancer, or a special needs child, etc... is generally not something you can control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ONLY way I’d say you can claim to be middleclass on a top 5% income, is if it costs you most of your income paying for required medical expenses. Since having cancer, or a special needs child, etc... is generally not something you can control.

What about requiring childhood for twins? This is around $4-5k per month if you aren’t willing to use an illegal daycare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$135k in “just the basics” utilities, mortgage, gas, car?!

No. You have decided that luxuries are “basics.” You have bought a home in an expensive area and leased an expensive car. When luxuries become necessities, you do start to feel poor.

You’re clueless. Expensive area in DC means anywhere without a TERRIBLE commute and horrible schools. A middle class style house.

Not PP and you’re the clueless one, the fact is, is that 95% of the rest of the people in the country would HAVE to live somewhere with a terrible commute and horrible schools if they wanted a house in the D.C. area, and even then most still couldn’t afford it.

If you can buy a house in one of the most expensive and desirable housing markets in the country, where there are good schools and a small commute, then yeah your rich. Not Bezos rich but to everyone else in the country you are rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ONLY way I’d say you can claim to be middleclass on a top 5% income, is if it costs you most of your income paying for required medical expenses. Since having cancer, or a special needs child, etc... is generally not something you can control.

What about requiring childhood for twins? This is around $4-5k per month if you aren’t willing to use an illegal daycare.

I personally don’t consider daycare a required expense. Unless you have no family in the country besides your children.
A lot of people move to be closer to grandparents, or, (god forbid!) one of the parents take a break from their career until kids get old enough to be home alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ONLY way I’d say you can claim to be middleclass on a top 5% income, is if it costs you most of your income paying for required medical expenses. Since having cancer, or a special needs child, etc... is generally not something you can control.

What about requiring childhood for twins? This is around $4-5k per month if you aren’t willing to use an illegal daycare.

I personally don’t consider daycare a required expense. Unless you have no family in the country besides your children.
A lot of people move to be closer to grandparents, or, (god forbid!) one of the parents take a break from their career until kids get old enough to be home alone.

You mean a parent gives up their career. Let’s be honest for a lot of people you just can’t step away for a few years. You get a “mom gig” later on once kids are in school.

But oh clueless one, the working poor usually requires both parents working to get by. But you’re right those kids are generally not in nice daycares so don’t worry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ONLY way I’d say you can claim to be middleclass on a top 5% income, is if it costs you most of your income paying for required medical expenses. Since having cancer, or a special needs child, etc... is generally not something you can control.

What about requiring childhood for twins? This is around $4-5k per month if you aren’t willing to use an illegal daycare.

I personally don’t consider daycare a required expense. Unless you have no family in the country besides your children.
A lot of people move to be closer to grandparents, or, (god forbid!) one of the parents take a break from their career until kids get old enough to be home alone.

Interesting that you think grandparents should just provide free childcare. Both my parents still work. We’d never be able to find jobs where ILs live but they are older and I’d never dream of imposing on them like that anyway. You’re not suggesting young children should be left alone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$135k in “just the basics” utilities, mortgage, gas, car?!

No. You have decided that luxuries are “basics.” You have bought a home in an expensive area and leased an expensive car. When luxuries become necessities, you do start to feel poor.

You’re clueless. Expensive area in DC means anywhere without a TERRIBLE commute and horrible schools. A middle class style house.

No. The middle class cannot afford your house. How do you earn so much with such little common sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$135k in “just the basics” utilities, mortgage, gas, car?!

No. You have decided that luxuries are “basics.” You have bought a home in an expensive area and leased an expensive car. When luxuries become necessities, you do start to feel poor.

You’re clueless. Expensive area in DC means anywhere without a TERRIBLE commute and horrible schools. A middle class style house.

Not PP and you’re the clueless one, the fact is, is that 95% of the rest of the people in the country would HAVE to live somewhere with a terrible commute and horrible schools if they wanted a house in the D.C. area, and even then most still couldn’t afford it.

If you can buy a house in one of the most expensive and desirable housing markets in the country, where there are good schools and a small commute, then yeah your rich. Not Bezos rich but to everyone else in the country you are rich.

You people are idiots. Are you even from here? Are you posting from your parents basement in Cedar Rapids? This isn’t Iowa. Everything is expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in NW DC and this article is basically about us. We are more like $310K a year and I can account for our budget differences in property taxes, childcare, and food. But otherwise it's not that far off from what we spend. Our mortgage payment plus taxes is about the same as the mortgage payment here.

That said, we are 40, keep a liquid cash savings cushion of about 40K, have just shy of 1M in 401k, are on a path to retire around 60 and have about 75% of kids college in the bank by the time they get there. So we're comfortable, but we're driving non-flashy cars, living in a 3 bedroom house, going to public school, and living what's otherwise a pretty non-rich person lifestyle.

So what are you spending money on? Vacation, clothes, eating out, activities?

1M retirement savings is good but not where the majority of your money is going.

Not PP but I’d assume

- college savings (is over $1k per month per kid)
- childcare (at least 3k per month for 2 kids)
- mortgage for a home where kids can attend public school.

I’m a little bit higher of an income and calculated that 85% of my 450k HHI goes towards savings, taxes, mortgage, college savings and childcare.

Savings are not expenses. You may have earmarked that money for a specific purpose, but you did not spend it. It is not gone. You still have that money.

So you’re saying that retirement savings aren’t a requirement to be middle class? You can be middle class and not save for retirement? My definition of middle class is eventually retiring.

The middle class is not saving enough. So often on DCUM I see the suggestion to “max out your 401k” before anything else. The middle class is not doing this. They are probably contributing enough to get the employer match.

So for those that are fretting because they make over $300k but don’t “feel” any different than those making $100k, hang in there. You’ll see the difference in retirement. You’ll have a nice retirement account, were able to pay for college in full, your million dollar house will be paid off and you can cash it out and move somewhere cheaper. You probably still won’t feel rich enough for your liking, but compared to the millions of American retirees living on the edge, you’ll be comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Agree atrongly with the above. The median HHi in the US is $65K and the median retirement balance is disgustingly low (like less than $200K for people in their 60s)

The difference between relatively wealthy DCUM’ers (myself included) who make great money but don’t live a “rich person” type of lifestyle is that for the most part those who don’t feel rich are saving much more than the rest of America which is just plain poor and undrrsaved for retirement. DCUMers are saving for their kids college. Many Americans buy a degree of little real value and it sends them into lots of debt.

Fully funding college and retirement feel like “necessities” but are actually luxuries that few people do. The value of making $300K isn’t to drive a new Benz, it’s the fact that with 401k, match, and mortgage amortization most are saving more in a year than the masses save in a decade. You don’t really feel the benefit of that now (other than the joy of watching the balances go higher).

Avoidance of disaster and decrepitude is rich in a US and global context, both today and historically. If you’re throwing $38K in the 401k getting $20K of match, servicing an $800K low interest mortgage, and have dough left over to save beyond that l, you’re going to be better off than almost everyone in the world and the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestreet.com/amp/retirement/average-retirement-savings-14881067

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in NW DC and this article is basically about us. We are more like $310K a year and I can account for our budget differences in property taxes, childcare, and food. But otherwise it's not that far off from what we spend. Our mortgage payment plus taxes is about the same as the mortgage payment here.

That said, we are 40, keep a liquid cash savings cushion of about 40K, have just shy of 1M in 401k, are on a path to retire around 60 and have about 75% of kids college in the bank by the time they get there. So we're comfortable, but we're driving non-flashy cars, living in a 3 bedroom house, going to public school, and living what's otherwise a pretty non-rich person lifestyle.

So what are you spending money on? Vacation, clothes, eating out, activities?

1M retirement savings is good but not where the majority of your money is going.

Not PP but I’d assume

- college savings (is over $1k per month per kid)
- childcare (at least 3k per month for 2 kids)
- mortgage for a home where kids can attend public school.

I’m a little bit higher of an income and calculated that 85% of my 450k HHI goes towards savings, taxes, mortgage, college savings and childcare.

Savings are not expenses. You may have earmarked that money for a specific purpose, but you did not spend it. It is not gone. You still have that money.

So you’re saying that retirement savings aren’t a requirement to be middle class? You can be middle class and not save for retirement? My definition of middle class is eventually retiring.

The middle class is not saving enough. So often on DCUM I see the suggestion to “max out your 401k” before anything else. The middle class is not doing this. They are probably contributing enough to get the employer match.

So for those that are fretting because they make over $300k but don’t “feel” any different than those making $100k, hang in there. You’ll see the difference in retirement. You’ll have a nice retirement account, were able to pay for college in full, your million dollar house will be paid off and you can cash it out and move somewhere cheaper. You probably still won’t feel rich enough for your liking, but compared to the millions of American retirees living on the edge, you’ll be comfortable.

This is very true. Over 400k HHi and I feel like my entire HHI is going towards taxes, retirement savings, childcare, mortgage.

But I’ll eventually have a fully paid off house in a (hopefully) extremely liquid housing market. The steep childcare costs will keep me employed at a company that provides a great pension in retirement. In addition we receive high 401k matches.

So maybe it’s that those at this income level feel like they are living a middle class life NOW. But in the future when their kids attend a fully paid for private college without taking loans and they no longer have to pay for a mortgage, childcare or college savings they will feel a lot wealthier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ONLY way I’d say you can claim to be middleclass on a top 5% income, is if it costs you most of your income paying for required medical expenses. Since having cancer, or a special needs child, etc... is generally not something you can control.

What about requiring childhood for twins? This is around $4-5k per month if you aren’t willing to use an illegal daycare.

I personally don’t consider daycare a required expense. Unless you have no family in the country besides your children.
A lot of people move to be closer to grandparents, or, (god forbid!) one of the parents take a break from their career until kids get old enough to be home alone.

Interesting that you think grandparents should just provide free childcare. Both my parents still work. We’d never be able to find jobs where ILs live but they are older and I’d never dream of imposing on them like that anyway. You’re not suggesting young children should be left alone?

+1. Many posters from flyover country seem to think we should all just have our parents watch our kids. Most of our parents can’t afford to live in DC. They are often still working in another part of the country. It’s extremely unusual to have retired parents living nearby who are available to watch our kids.

[Anonymous]

Another thing is that while social security is very progressive, high earners, will (for now at least) get much more in social security than their low earning counterparts. I think my parents are about to get something like $3k/month each after long good careers. My single mother in law is set to get $1000 o something after a bit so long or good career. This is another element of “you don’t feel rich now, but you are way better off than most”. That might change with cuts and or increased progressivism