Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WC Profile Writer -- thanks for your insights. Do you follow the British Royal Family? Could you please give me your take on Kate Middleton (raised UMC) and Meghan Markle (raised MC/WC). Even though they are royals now, you have implied in previous posts that a person never changes from the class in which they were raised.

I have only recently started following the BRF since we now have a black American princess. I have a lot of connection to Europe and some time immersed in British culture. So I can answer questions about British class, but place less confidence in these insights.

No one can change their class. But hot women, who are intelligent and highly socially aware, can fake it til they make it. In fact, being a hot woman with a messy upbringing is its own form of sexy to the very rich man, who feels slighted and misunderstood in spite of the world being at his feet. My prediction is that between KM and MM, MM will be more popular and have more gravitas bc she is more authentic, which the rich love. KM is a good con artist.

Oh and MM is not middle class. She is WC like me. WC people, esp those with dysfunction and trauma in their upbringing, can practically see through walls when it comes to receptiveness. So she will pick up on way more than UMC KM. And she will be much more adaptive in mimicking what she sees. Ask me how I know, haha.

I disagree. Are you unaware of how MM is being received in the UK currently?

Many of the qualities which served MM well as an actress (self-promoter, overly enthusiastic, emotionally expressive) in Hollywood are not helping her case with the British public. MM may be well-intention-ed, but she does not seem to understand how her actions are contributing to her negative press coverage and how she is being perceived. She is in dire need of a new PR strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

You are a great writer. Do you also do the name threads and I'll tell you about yourself? Let me know when the book comes out

[Anonymous]

I disagree. Are you unaware of how MM is being received in the UK currently?

Many of the qualities which served MM well as an actress (self-promoter, overly enthusiastic, emotionally expressive) in Hollywood are not helping her case with the British public. MM may be well-intention-ed, but she does not seem to understand how her actions are contributing to her negative press coverage and how she is being perceived. She is in dire need of a new PR strategy.

As I cautioned, I would place less confidence in anything I say about the UK vs America. However, I don't believe that the initial reception of a disruptive character is a reliable indicator of their eventual acceptance. The UK is in the midst of an identity crisis, and part of that crisis is the emergence of values that are typically American (individualism, self reliance). I think this puts MM in the Royal Family at a unique moment in history. There are also a lot of indications that the BRF actually wants MM to be different. The engagement photo is the best evidence of this.

MM is very disruptive, and will face strong opposition for a few years to come. If there is any truth to the rumor that Will is sleeping with Kate's bff, this could accelerate MM's road to acceptance.

MM's background gives her many distinct advantages over KM. MM will more readily perceive class-oriented differences in behavior than KM. This means that she will also learn how to correctly break the rules of her adopted class. Unlike UMC Kate, WC MM knows that to achieve native level fluency in her adopted class, she has to push the boundaries, which will make her more interesting, more daring, and ultimately more beloved by a nation struggling to find its own sea legs in a changing Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are a great writer. Do you also do the name threads and I'll tell you about yourself? Let me know when the book comes out

Thanks! I don't do the name theads but consider the person who does to be a kindred soul. I am a transplant to DC and don't know the ins and outs of all the suburbs and neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clothes look just generally expensive, not labels just... quality.

The things they complain about. My neighbor is quietly super rich and he came back from an international flight in business class and complained that the fact that there was one customs guy at Logan was gonna make the country look bad. I mean, maybe true but tree kind of thing only a rich person would be in a place to notice.

Really? I do this all the time (not Logan, just generally). Wondering if it's annoying as you make it sound

LOL, I make $60K a year but have a job with insane amounts of travel (in business class internationally) and everyone complains about lines in customs. It's not a indicator of wealth or anything else.

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile on the money board, the OP is getting roasted for saying her in laws are not rich with a few million in the bank.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Our family friends are horse trainers/handlers for some of these billionaire American families whose daughters are show jumpers. They don't even breed the horses; they just train, care for, and transport the horses to these events on behalf of the owners.

They own 5 homes due to the insane amounts of money they make in this line of business - Malibu, Palm Springs, a ranch in Colorado, a house in West Palm, etc. They follow their clientele around the world and make ungodly sums of money doing so. They don't appear to have any equity stakes in these horses, they just give these families their time, knowledge, and expertise. And get highly compensated for doing so.

There's so many other billionaire and 9-figure families in the US (and around the world) that we haven't even heard of. So many of their daughters are trying to become show jumpers and their boys are trying to play polo. It's ridiculous and they have the cash to burn.

What do you think someone like Eve Jobs spends on her show jumping career on a yearly basis? I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be constantly riding at events all over the world. She's also currently studying at Stanford, but she seems to barely spend any time at the school. There's a bunch of tech tycoon kids at Stanford right now doing the same - jetting off to St Barthes, Vail, or Europe every weekend.

The primary way money is made in horse showing is on sales commissions and "flipping" horses. Top people can make a ton of money that way and be completely above board because the horses cost millions of dollars. In many other cases, you would not believe the unethical shit that happens. I'm amazed over and over at how many otherwise smart and competent people never bother to sit down with the other party and sign a proper bill of sale, and don't realize how many pockets are being lined or who lied about price, and that's before you even get into horses getting younger, lying about soundness, etc. The horse you bought for $125k was probably $15k off the boat three weeks ago, which is fine, but people get terrible advice. The obvious solution would be to treat horses like the Jockey Club does or like Real Estate where every sale price is recorded, but I honestly think if they did that the whole horse show industry would collapse.

You sound insufferable. Oh, Dear.

DP. Why? Someone above asked her for exactly this kind of dirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WC Profile Writer -- thanks for your insights. Do you follow the British Royal Family? Could you please give me your take on Kate Middleton (raised UMC) and Meghan Markle (raised MC/WC). Even though they are royals now, you have implied in previous posts that a person never changes from the class in which they were raised.

I have only recently started following the BRF since we now have a black American princess. I have a lot of connection to Europe and some time immersed in British culture. So I can answer questions about British class, but place less confidence in these insights.

No one can change their class. But hot women, who are intelligent and highly socially aware, can fake it til they make it. In fact, being a hot woman with a messy upbringing is its own form of sexy to the very rich man, who feels slighted and misunderstood in spite of the world being at his feet. My prediction is that between KM and MM, MM will be more popular and have more gravitas bc she is more authentic, which the rich love. KM is a good con artist.

DP. Does anybody remember that brief hiatus Will and Kate took before getting back together and getting engaged? For some weird reason I remember the British UC snarking about Kate being middle class. I particularly remember (because I have a Barbour jacket) someone snarking that “Kate knows how to wear her Barbour jacket just right, but she’ll never be one of us.” Ouch.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

I didn't weigh in on dog shows. But I've got to put my foot down about Portugal as not being de rigueur among the rich.

Who said de rigueur? It’s just that you wrote like the UC wouldn’t be caught dead there, and that’s just not true.

Not at all. I said surely some rich travel there. But that as a class marker, if someone talks about their recent trip to Portugal, they are likely UMC.

You said “de rigueur” right above. Anyway, you need to drop this one. The UC loves its sherry before dinner, and Jerez is a definitely a destination.

[Anonymous]

I think people are confusing signs of extreme wealth with signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are confusing signs of extreme wealth with signs of class

Definitely. There’s a big difference.

I do wonder, though, if the definition of “class” itself is changing or needs to change. We’re using a definition of “UC” that refers back to WASPS a century ago. I fall into that group (people are amazed by my antiques), so this isn’t sour grapes or something. But with all the tech wealth, times are changing. The people with money these days aren’t telling the staff not to use Pledge on the antiques. A lot of them do seem to have similar values—they love the outdoors even more than WASPs, not all of them are into conspicuous consumption and many drive more humble electric cars, etc.... But there are differences, like they don’t hesitate to buy that large, 1990s pseudo-Italian house in Pali Alto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Our family friends are horse trainers/handlers for some of these billionaire American families whose daughters are show jumpers. They don't even breed the horses; they just train, care for, and transport the horses to these events on behalf of the owners.

They own 5 homes due to the insane amounts of money they make in this line of business - Malibu, Palm Springs, a ranch in Colorado, a house in West Palm, etc. They follow their clientele around the world and make ungodly sums of money doing so. They don't appear to have any equity stakes in these horses, they just give these families their time, knowledge, and expertise. And get highly compensated for doing so.

There's so many other billionaire and 9-figure families in the US (and around the world) that we haven't even heard of. So many of their daughters are trying to become show jumpers and their boys are trying to play polo. It's ridiculous and they have the cash to burn.

What do you think someone like Eve Jobs spends on her show jumping career on a yearly basis? I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be constantly riding at events all over the world. She's also currently studying at Stanford, but she seems to barely spend any time at the school. There's a bunch of tech tycoon kids at Stanford right now doing the same - jetting off to St Barthes, Vail, or Europe every weekend.

The primary way money is made in horse showing is on sales commissions and "flipping" horses. Top people can make a ton of money that way and be completely above board because the horses cost millions of dollars. In many other cases, you would not believe the unethical shit that happens. I'm amazed over and over at how many otherwise smart and competent people never bother to sit down with the other party and sign a proper bill of sale, and don't realize how many pockets are being lined or who lied about price, and that's before you even get into horses getting younger, lying about soundness, etc. The horse you bought for $125k was probably $15k off the boat three weeks ago, which is fine, but people get terrible advice. The obvious solution would be to treat horses like the Jockey Club does or like Real Estate where every sale price is recorded, but I honestly think if they did that the whole horse show industry would collapse.

You sound insufferable. Oh, Dear.

DP. Why? Someone above asked her for exactly this kind of dirt.

She just used her whole bonus to buy a Children's Hunter and/or bought a small pony that "can't do the step" even though THAT'S RIDICULOUS YOU GUYS IT'S A FREAKING TINY PONY AND A TINY CHILD JUST ADD AND LET'S ALL GO TO LUNCH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

I didn't weigh in on dog shows. But I've got to put my foot down about Portugal as not being de rigueur among the rich.

Who said de rigueur? It’s just that you wrote like the UC wouldn’t be caught dead there, and that’s just not true.

Not at all. I said surely some rich travel there. But that as a class marker, if someone talks about their recent trip to Portugal, they are likely UMC.

You said “de rigueur” right above. Anyway, you need to drop this one. The UC loves its sherry before dinner, and Jerez is a definitely a destination.

I won't relent. Portugal is a UMC destination. By the way, Jerez is in Spain, not Portugal.

[Anonymous]

if the interior of the closets are wallpapered

[Anonymous]

Also (WC profile writer here), I haven't weighed in on any of the horse show stuff, but I love the person writing it. Horse person, you should make a reality show about billionaire horse people and the hustlers who swindle them by overcharging for horses. Make sure to emphasize the cocaine. I'd binge watch that.