So, what is wrong with Hardy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

[Anonymous]

You're full of sh!t, to put it bluntly.

You talk like you have some knowledge. You have none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

Is that what they did at Deal? (Spoiler alert: no.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

The reference to the 50% FARM share comes from one , I say just one study , which was made in a setting so different from hardy.... Just to mention one, the study samples did not have any differentiation such as honors classes, or accelerated math (Hardy has both).

I am confident that my DC (IB, advanced) will not be "damaged" (to use PP's word choice) by the relatively high FARM rate. DC will thrive academically and socially, while learning to appreciate diversity and "privilege".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

They don't have to. Everyone knows they are trying to push neighborhood schools. They are not going to reduce the enrollment at Hardy for the purpose of reducing OOB kids (cause that would be so blatant, and would get huge pushback) but I don't think there is going to be huge protests as the OOB declines slowly with the growth in IB enrollment. Especially if they put resources into EOTP and EOTR middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're full of sh!t, to put it bluntly.

You talk like you have some knowledge. You have none.

A well-reasoned response.

If you are so sure of yourself, go ahead, enroll your kids and help improve the school. Your efforts will surely be rewarded...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

The reference to the 50% FARM share comes from one , I say just one study , which was made in a setting so different from hardy.... Just to mention one, the study samples did not have any differentiation such as honors classes, or accelerated math (Hardy has both).

I am confident that my DC (IB, advanced) will not be "damaged" (to use PP's word choice) by the relatively high FARM rate. DC will thrive academically and socially, while learning to appreciate diversity and "privilege".

Would you please cite that one and only study, PP.

I think you misunderstand my point, though, PP. If you are comfortable with the current FARMs rate at Hardy and its impact on the academic offerings, then it probably won't bother you if enrollment increases to make more spots available in the OOB lottery.

The point I made is that it is unrealistic to think that IB enrollment will swell and "squeeze out" OOB families, as several PPs have suggested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

Is that what they did at Deal? (Spoiler alert: no.)

Please enlighten us, PP.

What was the process by which Deal grew to be almost 1,250 kids, yet still 30% OOB (and 21% FARMs)?

How is Hardy insulated from a similar, but potentially much worse, outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

They don't have to. Everyone knows they are trying to push neighborhood schools. They are not going to reduce the enrollment at Hardy for the purpose of reducing OOB kids (cause that would be so blatant, and would get huge pushback) but I don't think there is going to be huge protests as the OOB declines slowly with the growth in IB enrollment. Especially if they put resources into EOTP and EOTR middle schools.

DCPS has been putting resources into EOTP schools for years with limited success. What has changed to make that strategy successful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

The reference to the 50% FARM share comes from one , I say just one study , which was made in a setting so different from hardy.... Just to mention one, the study samples did not have any differentiation such as honors classes, or accelerated math (Hardy has both).

I am confident that my DC (IB, advanced) will not be "damaged" (to use PP's word choice) by the relatively high FARM rate. DC will thrive academically and socially, while learning to appreciate diversity and "privilege".

Would you please cite that one and only study, PP.

I think you misunderstand my point, though, PP. If you are comfortable with the current FARMs rate at Hardy and its impact on the academic offerings, then it probably won't bother you if enrollment increases to make more spots available in the OOB lottery.

The point I made is that it is unrealistic to think that IB enrollment will swell and "squeeze out" OOB families, as several PPs have suggested.

Here is the study. http://tcf.org/assets/downloads/tcf-Schwartz.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

Is that what they did at Deal? (Spoiler alert: no.)

Please enlighten us, PP.

What was the process by which Deal grew to be almost 1,250 kids, yet still 30% OOB (and 21% FARMs)?

How is Hardy insulated from a similar, but potentially much worse, outcome?

I think you missed the point: that there is no reason that Hardy can't become just as good as Deal. The only thing keeping it from being that good is the refusal of IB parents to send their children there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're full of sh!t, to put it bluntly.

You talk like you have some knowledge. You have none.

A well-reasoned response.

If you are so sure of yourself, go ahead, enroll your kids and help improve the school. Your efforts will surely be rewarded...

I did, and mine were! Worked out great for my kid and was a rewarding experience for the whole family!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they know that the OOB numbers will increase right along with the IB numbers.

If DCPS were truly interested in Hardy becoming a predominantly IB school, they would reduce enrollment to give the grass roots IB recruitment effort a shot at succeeding.

The Hardy proposition is a bait-and-switch for IB families.

It's not a bait and switch - it's a prisoner's dilemma. If IB parents send their children to Hardy, they will crowd out OOB families, just like they did at Deal. Then IB families will have what they want - an almost-all-IB school. But if they don't come, then of course OOB families will attend. DCPS cannot and should not let the school sit empty in case IB families decide to show. There is no nefarious plot or mysterious game at play. If IB families want an IB school, all they have to do is send their kids to that school.

Mann parent here. I agree with this assessment. If IB attend, OOB will be squeezed out and it will be an IB school. While IB students stay away, the school can and should be filled.

No, it's not a prisoner's dilemma. It's a bait-and-switch.

DCPS plans to admit, via the lottery, as many OOB kids into Hardy as can be accommodated without hurting the school. As has been argued before, one measure of "hurting the school" is the FARMs rate. FARMs rates much higher than 50% hurt schools. An increase in the size of (non-FARM) IB enrollment will allow DCPS to admit more (mostly FARM) OOB kids through the lottery.

Many Hardy supporters have a vision of a high-functioning MS of 350 or so kids, mostly IB, that rivals Deal and has the scores to prove it, largely due to a reduction in the FARMs rate to 20% or so, all while being only 1/4 the size of Deal.

That is an unlikely outcome. More likely is an MS approaching 600 kids that remains lackluster compared to Deal because, despite recruiting many IB families, the FARMs rate was kept at 50% by DCPS.

If Hardy were to gain popularity among IB families, how could DCPS justify not growing enrollment until the building is bursting at the seams?

The reference to the 50% FARM share comes from one , I say just one study , which was made in a setting so different from hardy.... Just to mention one, the study samples did not have any differentiation such as honors classes, or accelerated math (Hardy has both).

I am confident that my DC (IB, advanced) will not be "damaged" (to use PP's word choice) by the relatively high FARM rate. DC will thrive academically and socially, while learning to appreciate diversity and "privilege".

Would you please cite that one and only study, PP.

I think you misunderstand my point, though, PP. If you are comfortable with the current FARMs rate at Hardy and its impact on the academic offerings, then it probably won't bother you if enrollment increases to make more spots available in the OOB lottery.

The point I made is that it is unrealistic to think that IB enrollment will swell and "squeeze out" OOB families, as several PPs have suggested.

Of course I am. My kid will be placed in classes of his same level for math & English in 6th grade. If he'll do well ( which I trust he will) he will go on in the accelerated pre- algebra , and algebra in 7th grade with the other advanced kids (IB, OB, FARM) .

[Anonymous]

If Hardy has tracked classes with an advanced level, why on earth is it not as good or better than deal? Totally honest question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Hardy has tracked classes with an advanced level, why on earth is it not as good or better than deal? Totally honest question.

What some of us have been trying to say for ages is that for advanced kids, it is as good or better than Deal. The reply to that is aways "But the test scores." And the answer to that is that the test scores measure demography, not school quality.