Why don't you believe in God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

Are you of the jewish faith? Don't they believe that death is the end?

Is the only way you have meaning and hope in your life is through a religion and a belief in the afterlife? That's sad.

Don't some theists believe that some who die go burn in hell for eternity? That's even worse. Do you remember before you were conceived? It wasn't that bad then was it? Same concept. And we live for this life, rather then pining for an afterlife. If anything, that gives even more meaning and hope to the here and now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

Are you of the jewish faith? Don't they believe that death is the end?

Is the only way you have meaning and hope in your life is through a religion and a belief in the afterlife? That's sad.

Don't some theists believe that some who die go burn in hell for eternity? That's even worse. Do you remember before you were conceived? It wasn't that bad then was it? Same concept. And we live for this life, rather then pining for an afterlife. If anything, that gives even more meaning and hope to the here and now.

Hmmm...except for the child rapists who don't get caught. In their case, there is a lot less meaning and hope.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP who recommended the short story "A Good Man is Hard to Find," by Flannery O'Connor, as an excellent complement to this thread. I just finished another of her short stories, "The Lame Shall Enter First," and I have chills. It was even more illuminating on these topics. What a gifted writer. Mind-blowing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All fine and good. I agree that simulating OBEs makes it less likely that people are really leaving their body and having experiences. I thought the folks posting the link were attempting to prove that real OBEs could be induced, which would be mind blowing. The OBE that happened this one time at band camp doesn't prove anything, in my view.

On another note, I appear to have won the argument over unicorns.

Nah, you missed it, you lost the argument. Right here: "You can't just make stuff up. The reason has to be something that's part of the ordinary understanding of the thing."

By your rules of evidence, God is made up of whole cloth. That's the sum total of "the ordinary understanding of the thing." Argumentum ad populum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, the link discusses NDEs, not OBEs.

Sorry, I'm not well-versed enough in pseudo-science to understand the difference. could you fill me in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

In what sense? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved. Why is the fact that we get one bite at the apple--a bite that is, when taken in context, so completely improbable--so sad? I can't imagine squandering your opportunity by focusing on "the next life". To me, there's nothing sadder than that.

Anyway, setting all that aside, I'm not sure "you should believe in God because it makes your life more hopeful" is the best argument. A world with a tangible Santa Clause in it is arguably more hopeful than one without. So what? It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe your internal experience of redness is the same as my experience of a low piano note.

That's called synesthesia, and it exists.

Sure, in extremely rare cases. PP was talking about as a general rule. Some people are schizophrenics, too. Others are color-blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All fine and good. I agree that simulating OBEs makes it less likely that people are really leaving their body and having experiences. I thought the folks posting the link were attempting to prove that real OBEs could be induced, which would be mind blowing. The OBE that happened this one time at band camp doesn't prove anything, in my view.

On another note, I appear to have won the argument over unicorns.

Aside from the unicorn part, you are making a false distinction. OBE's aren't simulated. They are induced. Do you really think people are floating around outside of their bodies? IT's a feeling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?



Death is the end of life. I don't believe in any afterlife. It's just final and inevitable. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the life I am living or love the people I love. It's just an end, not hopeless.

Interesting. That idea makes bad people very, very powerful, because then there is no such thing as justice.

Say that a clever man spends his entire adulthood raping and torturing and killing little children. Even if he is caught before he dies, there is nothing anyone could do to him that would get justice for what he did. He is only one man. He has already lived well, unlike his victims, who are just extinguished. And the worst thing we can do to him is extinguish him. Not so bad. He will just cease to be. He won't even know he is gone.

The injustice against the children is permanent and total. Evil wins, every time.

Now I'm depressed.

Ah, in that case, God must exist.

[Anonymous]

HIV/AIDS and tarantulas are just two of the reasons that I don't believe in God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HIV/AIDS and tarantulas are just two of the reasons that I don't believe in God.

Ah, but with the "God is evil" hypothesis, these things make total sense. Still haven't heard a compelling counter to that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

In what sense? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved. Why is the fact that we get one bite at the apple--a bite that is, when taken in context, so completely improbable--so sad? I can't imagine squandering your opportunity by focusing on "the next life". To me, there's nothing sadder than that.

Anyway, setting all that aside, I'm not sure "you should believe in God because it makes your life more hopeful" is the best argument. A world with a tangible Santa Clause in it is arguably more hopeful than one without. So what? It is what it is.

Better to have stolen, lied, cheated, oppressed and lived like a master of the universe than to have been a sucker. If you only get one bite at the apple, better make the most of it. I can't imagine squandering the opportunity to live well when there are no consequences to stepping on people to get what you want, if you are smart enough to not get caught. To me, there is nothing sadder than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

In what sense? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved. Why is the fact that we get one bite at the apple--a bite that is, when taken in context, so completely improbable--so sad? I can't imagine squandering your opportunity by focusing on "the next life". To me, there's nothing sadder than that.

Anyway, setting all that aside, I'm not sure "you should believe in God because it makes your life more hopeful" is the best argument. A world with a tangible Santa Clause in it is arguably more hopeful than one without. So what? It is what it is.

Better to have stolen, lied, cheated, oppressed and lived like a master of the universe than to have been a sucker. If you only get one bite at the apple, better make the most of it. I can't imagine squandering the opportunity to live well when there are no consequences to stepping on people to get what you want, if you are smart enough to not get caught. To me, there is nothing sadder than that.

Hmm. You must live a spiritually impoverished life, in that, without a god, "there are no consequences to stepping on people to get what you want". Frankly, most people aren't sociopathic douchebags, and prefer to be decent to one another. With or without a deity.

Go ahead and eat your neighbor's children, there's no god. What's that? Not interested? Feh, I thought you wanted to enjoy life.

God some of these theist arguments really do get inane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

In what sense? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved. Why is the fact that we get one bite at the apple--a bite that is, when taken in context, so completely improbable--so sad? I can't imagine squandering your opportunity by focusing on "the next life". To me, there's nothing sadder than that.

Anyway, setting all that aside, I'm not sure "you should believe in God because it makes your life more hopeful" is the best argument. A world with a tangible Santa Clause in it is arguably more hopeful than one without. So what? It is what it is.

Better to have stolen, lied, cheated, oppressed and lived like a master of the universe than to have been a sucker. If you only get one bite at the apple, better make the most of it. I can't imagine squandering the opportunity to live well when there are no consequences to stepping on people to get what you want, if you are smart enough to not get caught. To me, there is nothing sadder than that.

Oh, just to add: I'm glad there's the convincing illusion of a deity to keep folks like you in line. I guess some people really do need a Universal Ref to keep them from going apeshit on the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you non-believers all think when you die, that is it? What a hopeless life. If you lose a child, you believe it is just lights out and you'll never see him again?

In what sense? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved. Why is the fact that we get one bite at the apple--a bite that is, when taken in context, so completely improbable--so sad? I can't imagine squandering your opportunity by focusing on "the next life". To me, there's nothing sadder than that.

Anyway, setting all that aside, I'm not sure "you should believe in God because it makes your life more hopeful" is the best argument. A world with a tangible Santa Clause in it is arguably more hopeful than one without. So what? It is what it is.

Better to have stolen, lied, cheated, oppressed and lived like a master of the universe than to have been a sucker. If you only get one bite at the apple, better make the most of it. I can't imagine squandering the opportunity to live well when there are no consequences to stepping on people to get what you want, if you are smart enough to not get caught. To me, there is nothing sadder than that.

Hmm. You must live a spiritually impoverished life, in that, without a god, "there are no consequences to stepping on people to get what you want". Frankly, most people aren't sociopathic douchebags, and prefer to be decent to one another. With or without a deity.

Go ahead and eat your neighbor's children, there's no god. What's that? Not interested? Feh, I thought you wanted to enjoy life.

God some of these theist arguments really do get inane.

I'm not worried about me. Luckily, I am not a sociopath.

I am worried about the sociopath who kidnaps, rapes, tortures, and kills one of my kids and is not apprehended by law enforcement. Actually, even if he were apprehended, tried, convicted, and locked up forever, it wouldn't be justice.

But I guess we are all just cosmic dust, and life isn't fair. I'll comfort myself with that cold, hard truth.