If you are someone who "warns" people of the dangers of COVID on social media

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They are riding high on the moral ground that COVID gives them to look down on anyone who doesn't agree with them. "I'm such a good person! I wear my mask! I do whatever the cdc tells me to do. If Fauci says boost, I say shoot me up!"

Thankfully this forum isn't real life. No one cares irl.

It differs from place to place. My in laws live in a community full of Trumpsters and nearly everyone is unmasked and few are fully vaccinated let alone boosted. Although many of their neighbors and coworkers have had Covid more than once or are struggling with long Covid, they can’t deviate from what the people around them do. Yet they are shocked when Grandma dies or Junior is hospitalized.

Both are wrong. COVID purity moralizing is extremely off putting. Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior. If you are just literally posting about rising case rates or your personal experience with long COVID, I do think that can be valuable. But if you are just shouting into the abyss about people not taking COVID seriously enough, you're not achieving anything.

Please take your admonishment that "Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior" to heart. People have picked their sides at this point. Thinking of people on the other side of the line from you as psychopaths and P.O.S. isn't helping sway them to your side, and I don't think it's healthy mentally for the person who's doing it, either.

I don't think of "people on the other side of the line" are psychopaths and P O Ss. I think there are some pro mask/lockdown posters who behave horribly/dishonestly on these boards who are P O Ss and psychopaths. These are people who post falsehoods repeatedly and ignore when someone posts proof that they are wrong. People who say any child's mental illness was caused by their parents. I've seen that gem a lot. People who insist than anyone who isn't masking right now didn't make any sacrifices in 2020-21 - also a common talking point. Those posters are psychopaths.

Everyone on the pro-masking side will eventually give up masks. In other words, the people in favor of normalcy will "win." It's truly crazy that people are planning on giving up normal socialization for themselves and their children indefinitely. Lack of normal socializing will also cause changes to the brain and remodeling of circuitry...

It’s been almost 3 years. When will people give up masks exactly? Most of the families at our daycare are still masking their 2-4yos even though not required anymore and I truly don’t get what the endgame is. Masks are mostly a joke in that environment anyway but clearly they think the minimal benefit is worth it. For how long though?

Why not ask them? The endgame for them is to probably limit Covid infections in their chidren, but I can't read their minds. That's our reason to mask our school age kids.

DP you know exactly why we don't ask. Because anyone who questions masking, even toddler masking, gets accused of causing mass death/disability (see the first page of this thread). Even our therapist, who indicated privately to me that DD's in-school therapy would be easier without masks (and in fact once they dropped the mask requirement for everyone suddenly we saw a lot of progress) did not want to come out and say that to the teachers. It had been a struggle to get them to even allow the therapist into the school, so it was a very calculated decision.

What this really comes down to is for how long should the general population make sacrifices to prevent death/disability in a small (but definitely significant) percentage of people. And how do we decide which sacrifices are worth it? What I see a lot on these boards is that folks do not think masking (of toddlers or older children and adults) or avoiding indoor activities is a sacrifice at all, and that COVID precautions don't cause any significant harm. Many of us did change our behavior significantly in 2020-2021 because we do recognize that COVID is serious. By the time 2022 rolled around, it became clear that the cost to ourselves and our child was too much. These precautions are fine for short periods of time. When they are in place for years, for many of us the harms build up. Maybe you haven't experienced that in your family and that's great. But we have and the harms are real. It's a risk though, to say this publicly, because those that haven't had the issues we have deny that they even exist and think of us as murderers. No thanks. The risk is not worth the benefit of such a conversation. I will stick to the people in my life who recognize that different people have different priorities and priorities other than COVID are valid.

Of course our kids have experienced Covid related frustrations. It's not fun to be the only kid sitting outside for lunch, or any number of situations that they deal with. And I don't know anyone who would prefer to wear masks if there were zero perceived threat. People approach risk differently. If you child is able to receive maskless therapy right now, that's great and I hope it continues. I don't think forcing toddlers to mask is fair either, despite all the assumptions made about me because I mask. If mandates ever came back, I would support exceptions for small children and certain other children. Just don't judge parents who do mask their toddlers. They aren't your enemy.

We aren't giving up the masks in our house because we have found workarounds. We try to live a full life, but to us, the risk of infection is high to long term quality of life. If that calculus changes, so will our behavior. I certainly hope it does, but for now that's where we are at.

I could not care less if parents at DD's daycare mask their child. It doesn't affect me, so I definitely don't think they are my enemy. The masks rarely cover their nose and often don't cover their mouths either so it's more of a chin strap anyway. Which does make me wonder why they do it. Doesn't mean I need to confront them about it. What could possibly be the benefit of that?

To be fair, you posted asking why they still do it. It sounded to me like it bothered you on some level, but I guess not.

DP- you aren't curious why parents would force their kids to wear something that's so obviously ineffective and interferes with social interactions/communication? Like what is the point? I mean, I don't really care either except that teachers at our daycare felt pressured to mask up again because so many parents continued to send their kids wearing masks half-a$$.

As someone who masks in an area where usually NO ONE else does (military base), I don't think you can blame other parents for teachers who mask. They are adults and if masks are optional, they are making a choice to do it. If I had a younger kid, I would want to protect them from all the circulating viruses, but I don't think cloth masks do enough (it's not nothing, but it's minimal). It would depend on what the kid could manage and was appropriate for them, and I'd probably not be in a group childcare setting right now if I could help it.

We actually have a quite few people masking this week as they are sick of getting sick before the holidays. Seems a sensible reaction to current conditions.

This. I can tell you that most kids (and adults) at our preschool are still wearing masks and the viruses are still going around anyway, including Covid outbreaks. Those we know with vulnerable family members moved to nannyshares or SAH.

YMMV We have a very vulnerable friend and her child goes to school in person. Child and husband got COVID recently and thankfully she didn't get it. Many vulnerable people do take the risk, for a variety of reasons.

FWIW, “school” as in K-12, is a bit easier to navigate than preschool/daycare, for several reasons. The risks can be mitigated a bit more (speaking from personal experience)

Their kid still got COVID though. Since the beginning of the pandemic we've known young kids are less likely to spread COVID than older ones, so I am not sure your risk assessment is correct.

That analysis was proven wrong.

Not really. Young children are still less likely to get COVID and when they do it is more likely to be asymptomatic, which is less likely to spread. Viral shedding increases with age. The problem is when they do get a symptomatic infection, it is more likely to spread within the household because mitigation strategies within a household with an infected child are very difficult. It's easier though if a lower risk parent can care for the child and the higher risk parent can distance from them.

This is from Harvard:

Most children who become infected with the COVID-19 virus have no symptoms, or they have milder symptoms such as low-grade fever, fatigue, and cough. Early studies suggested that children do not contribute much to the spread of coronavirus. But more recent studies indicate that children are capable of spreading the infection.

Though the studies varied in their methods, their findings were similar: infected children had as much, or more, coronavirus in their upper respiratory tracts as infected adults. And a November 2021 study conducted by Harvard researchers again confirmed that children carry live virus capable of infecting others.

The amount of virus found in children — their viral load — was not correlated with the severity of their symptoms. In other words, a child with mild or no symptoms may have just as many viral particles in their nose and mouth as a child that has more severe symptoms. So, the presence of a high viral load in infected children increases the likelihood that children, even those without symptoms, could readily spread the infection to others.

The bottom line? Public health measures are as important for kids and teens as they are for adults.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are riding high on the moral ground that COVID gives them to look down on anyone who doesn't agree with them. "I'm such a good person! I wear my mask! I do whatever the cdc tells me to do. If Fauci says boost, I say shoot me up!"

Thankfully this forum isn't real life. No one cares irl.

It differs from place to place. My in laws live in a community full of Trumpsters and nearly everyone is unmasked and few are fully vaccinated let alone boosted. Although many of their neighbors and coworkers have had Covid more than once or are struggling with long Covid, they can’t deviate from what the people around them do. Yet they are shocked when Grandma dies or Junior is hospitalized.

Both are wrong. COVID purity moralizing is extremely off putting. Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior. If you are just literally posting about rising case rates or your personal experience with long COVID, I do think that can be valuable. But if you are just shouting into the abyss about people not taking COVID seriously enough, you're not achieving anything.

Please take your admonishment that "Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior" to heart. People have picked their sides at this point. Thinking of people on the other side of the line from you as psychopaths and P.O.S. isn't helping sway them to your side, and I don't think it's healthy mentally for the person who's doing it, either.

I don't think of "people on the other side of the line" are psychopaths and P O Ss. I think there are some pro mask/lockdown posters who behave horribly/dishonestly on these boards who are P O Ss and psychopaths. These are people who post falsehoods repeatedly and ignore when someone posts proof that they are wrong. People who say any child's mental illness was caused by their parents. I've seen that gem a lot. People who insist than anyone who isn't masking right now didn't make any sacrifices in 2020-21 - also a common talking point. Those posters are psychopaths.

Everyone on the pro-masking side will eventually give up masks. In other words, the people in favor of normalcy will "win." It's truly crazy that people are planning on giving up normal socialization for themselves and their children indefinitely. Lack of normal socializing will also cause changes to the brain and remodeling of circuitry...

It’s been almost 3 years. When will people give up masks exactly? Most of the families at our daycare are still masking their 2-4yos even though not required anymore and I truly don’t get what the endgame is. Masks are mostly a joke in that environment anyway but clearly they think the minimal benefit is worth it. For how long though?

Why not ask them? The endgame for them is to probably limit Covid infections in their chidren, but I can't read their minds. That's our reason to mask our school age kids.

DP you know exactly why we don't ask. Because anyone who questions masking, even toddler masking, gets accused of causing mass death/disability (see the first page of this thread). Even our therapist, who indicated privately to me that DD's in-school therapy would be easier without masks (and in fact once they dropped the mask requirement for everyone suddenly we saw a lot of progress) did not want to come out and say that to the teachers. It had been a struggle to get them to even allow the therapist into the school, so it was a very calculated decision.

What this really comes down to is for how long should the general population make sacrifices to prevent death/disability in a small (but definitely significant) percentage of people. And how do we decide which sacrifices are worth it? What I see a lot on these boards is that folks do not think masking (of toddlers or older children and adults) or avoiding indoor activities is a sacrifice at all, and that COVID precautions don't cause any significant harm. Many of us did change our behavior significantly in 2020-2021 because we do recognize that COVID is serious. By the time 2022 rolled around, it became clear that the cost to ourselves and our child was too much. These precautions are fine for short periods of time. When they are in place for years, for many of us the harms build up. Maybe you haven't experienced that in your family and that's great. But we have and the harms are real. It's a risk though, to say this publicly, because those that haven't had the issues we have deny that they even exist and think of us as murderers. No thanks. The risk is not worth the benefit of such a conversation. I will stick to the people in my life who recognize that different people have different priorities and priorities other than COVID are valid.

Of course our kids have experienced Covid related frustrations. It's not fun to be the only kid sitting outside for lunch, or any number of situations that they deal with. And I don't know anyone who would prefer to wear masks if there were zero perceived threat. People approach risk differently. If you child is able to receive maskless therapy right now, that's great and I hope it continues. I don't think forcing toddlers to mask is fair either, despite all the assumptions made about me because I mask. If mandates ever came back, I would support exceptions for small children and certain other children. Just don't judge parents who do mask their toddlers. They aren't your enemy.

We aren't giving up the masks in our house because we have found workarounds. We try to live a full life, but to us, the risk of infection is high to long term quality of life. If that calculus changes, so will our behavior. I certainly hope it does, but for now that's where we are at.

I could not care less if parents at DD's daycare mask their child. It doesn't affect me, so I definitely don't think they are my enemy. The masks rarely cover their nose and often don't cover their mouths either so it's more of a chin strap anyway. Which does make me wonder why they do it. Doesn't mean I need to confront them about it. What could possibly be the benefit of that?

To be fair, you posted asking why they still do it. It sounded to me like it bothered you on some level, but I guess not.

DP- you aren't curious why parents would force their kids to wear something that's so obviously ineffective and interferes with social interactions/communication? Like what is the point? I mean, I don't really care either except that teachers at our daycare felt pressured to mask up again because so many parents continued to send their kids wearing masks half-a$$.

As someone who masks in an area where usually NO ONE else does (military base), I don't think you can blame other parents for teachers who mask. They are adults and if masks are optional, they are making a choice to do it. If I had a younger kid, I would want to protect them from all the circulating viruses, but I don't think cloth masks do enough (it's not nothing, but it's minimal). It would depend on what the kid could manage and was appropriate for them, and I'd probably not be in a group childcare setting right now if I could help it.

We actually have a quite few people masking this week as they are sick of getting sick before the holidays. Seems a sensible reaction to current conditions.

This. I can tell you that most kids (and adults) at our preschool are still wearing masks and the viruses are still going around anyway, including Covid outbreaks. Those we know with vulnerable family members moved to nannyshares or SAH.

YMMV We have a very vulnerable friend and her child goes to school in person. Child and husband got COVID recently and thankfully she didn't get it. Many vulnerable people do take the risk, for a variety of reasons.

FWIW, “school” as in K-12, is a bit easier to navigate than preschool/daycare, for several reasons. The risks can be mitigated a bit more (speaking from personal experience)

Their kid still got COVID though. Since the beginning of the pandemic we've known young kids are less likely to spread COVID than older ones, so I am not sure your risk assessment is correct.

That analysis was proven wrong.

Not really. Young children are still less likely to get COVID and when they do it is more likely to be asymptomatic, which is less likely to spread. Viral shedding increases with age. The problem is when they do get a symptomatic infection, it is more likely to spread within the household because mitigation strategies within a household with an infected child are very difficult. It's easier though if a lower risk parent can care for the child and the higher risk parent can distance from them.

This is from Harvard:

Most children who become infected with the COVID-19 virus have no symptoms, or they have milder symptoms such as low-grade fever, fatigue, and cough. Early studies suggested that children do not contribute much to the spread of coronavirus. But more recent studies indicate that children are capable of spreading the infection.

Though the studies varied in their methods, their findings were similar: infected children had as much, or more, coronavirus in their upper respiratory tracts as infected adults. And a November 2021 study conducted by Harvard researchers again confirmed that children carry live virus capable of infecting others.

The amount of virus found in children — their viral load — was not correlated with the severity of their symptoms. In other words, a child with mild or no symptoms may have just as many viral particles in their nose and mouth as a child that has more severe symptoms. So, the presence of a high viral load in infected children increases the likelihood that children, even those without symptoms, could readily spread the infection to others.

The bottom line? Public health measures are as important for kids and teens as they are for adults.

And yet amore recent study finds lower respiratory from kids: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/23/health/respiratory-emissions-lower-in-children-than-adults/index.html

Nothing has been "disproven". There are numerous studies with mixed results but many do show evidence that younger kids may transmit less. And the youngest kids have consistently shown to have lower case rates than older age groups.

[Anonymous]

And here is an article showing asymptomatic people are less likely to spread COVID than symptomatic people:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210826170205.htm

Not every scientific finding that is contrary to your world view is right-wing propaganda, fyi

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They are riding high on the moral ground that COVID gives them to look down on anyone who doesn't agree with them. "I'm such a good person! I wear my mask! I do whatever the cdc tells me to do. If Fauci says boost, I say shoot me up!"

Thankfully this forum isn't real life. No one cares irl.

It differs from place to place. My in laws live in a community full of Trumpsters and nearly everyone is unmasked and few are fully vaccinated let alone boosted. Although many of their neighbors and coworkers have had Covid more than once or are struggling with long Covid, they can’t deviate from what the people around them do. Yet they are shocked when Grandma dies or Junior is hospitalized.

Both are wrong. COVID purity moralizing is extremely off putting. Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior. If you are just literally posting about rising case rates or your personal experience with long COVID, I do think that can be valuable. But if you are just shouting into the abyss about people not taking COVID seriously enough, you're not achieving anything.

Please take your admonishment that "Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior" to heart. People have picked their sides at this point. Thinking of people on the other side of the line from you as psychopaths and P.O.S. isn't helping sway them to your side, and I don't think it's healthy mentally for the person who's doing it, either.

I don't think of "people on the other side of the line" are psychopaths and P O Ss. I think there are some pro mask/lockdown posters who behave horribly/dishonestly on these boards who are P O Ss and psychopaths. These are people who post falsehoods repeatedly and ignore when someone posts proof that they are wrong. People who say any child's mental illness was caused by their parents. I've seen that gem a lot. People who insist than anyone who isn't masking right now didn't make any sacrifices in 2020-21 - also a common talking point. Those posters are psychopaths.

Everyone on the pro-masking side will eventually give up masks. In other words, the people in favor of normalcy will "win." It's truly crazy that people are planning on giving up normal socialization for themselves and their children indefinitely. Lack of normal socializing will also cause changes to the brain and remodeling of circuitry...

It’s been almost 3 years. When will people give up masks exactly? Most of the families at our daycare are still masking their 2-4yos even though not required anymore and I truly don’t get what the endgame is. Masks are mostly a joke in that environment anyway but clearly they think the minimal benefit is worth it. For how long though?

Why not ask them? The endgame for them is to probably limit Covid infections in their chidren, but I can't read their minds. That's our reason to mask our school age kids.

DP you know exactly why we don't ask. Because anyone who questions masking, even toddler masking, gets accused of causing mass death/disability (see the first page of this thread). Even our therapist, who indicated privately to me that DD's in-school therapy would be easier without masks (and in fact once they dropped the mask requirement for everyone suddenly we saw a lot of progress) did not want to come out and say that to the teachers. It had been a struggle to get them to even allow the therapist into the school, so it was a very calculated decision.

What this really comes down to is for how long should the general population make sacrifices to prevent death/disability in a small (but definitely significant) percentage of people. And how do we decide which sacrifices are worth it? What I see a lot on these boards is that folks do not think masking (of toddlers or older children and adults) or avoiding indoor activities is a sacrifice at all, and that COVID precautions don't cause any significant harm. Many of us did change our behavior significantly in 2020-2021 because we do recognize that COVID is serious. By the time 2022 rolled around, it became clear that the cost to ourselves and our child was too much. These precautions are fine for short periods of time. When they are in place for years, for many of us the harms build up. Maybe you haven't experienced that in your family and that's great. But we have and the harms are real. It's a risk though, to say this publicly, because those that haven't had the issues we have deny that they even exist and think of us as murderers. No thanks. The risk is not worth the benefit of such a conversation. I will stick to the people in my life who recognize that different people have different priorities and priorities other than COVID are valid.

Of course our kids have experienced Covid related frustrations. It's not fun to be the only kid sitting outside for lunch, or any number of situations that they deal with. And I don't know anyone who would prefer to wear masks if there were zero perceived threat. People approach risk differently. If you child is able to receive maskless therapy right now, that's great and I hope it continues. I don't think forcing toddlers to mask is fair either, despite all the assumptions made about me because I mask. If mandates ever came back, I would support exceptions for small children and certain other children. Just don't judge parents who do mask their toddlers. They aren't your enemy.

We aren't giving up the masks in our house because we have found workarounds. We try to live a full life, but to us, the risk of infection is high to long term quality of life. If that calculus changes, so will our behavior. I certainly hope it does, but for now that's where we are at.

I could not care less if parents at DD's daycare mask their child. It doesn't affect me, so I definitely don't think they are my enemy. The masks rarely cover their nose and often don't cover their mouths either so it's more of a chin strap anyway. Which does make me wonder why they do it. Doesn't mean I need to confront them about it. What could possibly be the benefit of that?

To be fair, you posted asking why they still do it. It sounded to me like it bothered you on some level, but I guess not.

DP- you aren't curious why parents would force their kids to wear something that's so obviously ineffective and interferes with social interactions/communication? Like what is the point? I mean, I don't really care either except that teachers at our daycare felt pressured to mask up again because so many parents continued to send their kids wearing masks half-a$$.

As someone who masks in an area where usually NO ONE else does (military base), I don't think you can blame other parents for teachers who mask. They are adults and if masks are optional, they are making a choice to do it. If I had a younger kid, I would want to protect them from all the circulating viruses, but I don't think cloth masks do enough (it's not nothing, but it's minimal). It would depend on what the kid could manage and was appropriate for them, and I'd probably not be in a group childcare setting right now if I could help it.

We actually have a quite few people masking this week as they are sick of getting sick before the holidays. Seems a sensible reaction to current conditions.

This. I can tell you that most kids (and adults) at our preschool are still wearing masks and the viruses are still going around anyway, including Covid outbreaks. Those we know with vulnerable family members moved to nannyshares or SAH.

YMMV We have a very vulnerable friend and her child goes to school in person. Child and husband got COVID recently and thankfully she didn't get it. Many vulnerable people do take the risk, for a variety of reasons.

FWIW, “school” as in K-12, is a bit easier to navigate than preschool/daycare, for several reasons. The risks can be mitigated a bit more (speaking from personal experience)

Their kid still got COVID though. Since the beginning of the pandemic we've known young kids are less likely to spread COVID than older ones, so I am not sure your risk assessment is correct.

That analysis was proven wrong.

Not really. Young children are still less likely to get COVID and when they do it is more likely to be asymptomatic, which is less likely to spread. Viral shedding increases with age. The problem is when they do get a symptomatic infection, it is more likely to spread within the household because mitigation strategies within a household with an infected child are very difficult. It's easier though if a lower risk parent can care for the child and the higher risk parent can distance from them.

We also don't know the longterm effects of repeated "mild" infections in young kids. Not interested in being part of that experiment, but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are riding high on the moral ground that COVID gives them to look down on anyone who doesn't agree with them. "I'm such a good person! I wear my mask! I do whatever the cdc tells me to do. If Fauci says boost, I say shoot me up!"

Thankfully this forum isn't real life. No one cares irl.

It differs from place to place. My in laws live in a community full of Trumpsters and nearly everyone is unmasked and few are fully vaccinated let alone boosted. Although many of their neighbors and coworkers have had Covid more than once or are struggling with long Covid, they can’t deviate from what the people around them do. Yet they are shocked when Grandma dies or Junior is hospitalized.

Both are wrong. COVID purity moralizing is extremely off putting. Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior. If you are just literally posting about rising case rates or your personal experience with long COVID, I do think that can be valuable. But if you are just shouting into the abyss about people not taking COVID seriously enough, you're not achieving anything.

Please take your admonishment that "Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior" to heart. People have picked their sides at this point. Thinking of people on the other side of the line from you as psychopaths and P.O.S. isn't helping sway them to your side, and I don't think it's healthy mentally for the person who's doing it, either.

I don't think of "people on the other side of the line" are psychopaths and P O Ss. I think there are some pro mask/lockdown posters who behave horribly/dishonestly on these boards who are P O Ss and psychopaths. These are people who post falsehoods repeatedly and ignore when someone posts proof that they are wrong. People who say any child's mental illness was caused by their parents. I've seen that gem a lot. People who insist than anyone who isn't masking right now didn't make any sacrifices in 2020-21 - also a common talking point. Those posters are psychopaths.

Everyone on the pro-masking side will eventually give up masks. In other words, the people in favor of normalcy will "win." It's truly crazy that people are planning on giving up normal socialization for themselves and their children indefinitely. Lack of normal socializing will also cause changes to the brain and remodeling of circuitry...

It’s been almost 3 years. When will people give up masks exactly? Most of the families at our daycare are still masking their 2-4yos even though not required anymore and I truly don’t get what the endgame is. Masks are mostly a joke in that environment anyway but clearly they think the minimal benefit is worth it. For how long though?

Why not ask them? The endgame for them is to probably limit Covid infections in their chidren, but I can't read their minds. That's our reason to mask our school age kids.

DP you know exactly why we don't ask. Because anyone who questions masking, even toddler masking, gets accused of causing mass death/disability (see the first page of this thread). Even our therapist, who indicated privately to me that DD's in-school therapy would be easier without masks (and in fact once they dropped the mask requirement for everyone suddenly we saw a lot of progress) did not want to come out and say that to the teachers. It had been a struggle to get them to even allow the therapist into the school, so it was a very calculated decision.

What this really comes down to is for how long should the general population make sacrifices to prevent death/disability in a small (but definitely significant) percentage of people. And how do we decide which sacrifices are worth it? What I see a lot on these boards is that folks do not think masking (of toddlers or older children and adults) or avoiding indoor activities is a sacrifice at all, and that COVID precautions don't cause any significant harm. Many of us did change our behavior significantly in 2020-2021 because we do recognize that COVID is serious. By the time 2022 rolled around, it became clear that the cost to ourselves and our child was too much. These precautions are fine for short periods of time. When they are in place for years, for many of us the harms build up. Maybe you haven't experienced that in your family and that's great. But we have and the harms are real. It's a risk though, to say this publicly, because those that haven't had the issues we have deny that they even exist and think of us as murderers. No thanks. The risk is not worth the benefit of such a conversation. I will stick to the people in my life who recognize that different people have different priorities and priorities other than COVID are valid.

Of course our kids have experienced Covid related frustrations. It's not fun to be the only kid sitting outside for lunch, or any number of situations that they deal with. And I don't know anyone who would prefer to wear masks if there were zero perceived threat. People approach risk differently. If you child is able to receive maskless therapy right now, that's great and I hope it continues. I don't think forcing toddlers to mask is fair either, despite all the assumptions made about me because I mask. If mandates ever came back, I would support exceptions for small children and certain other children. Just don't judge parents who do mask their toddlers. They aren't your enemy.

We aren't giving up the masks in our house because we have found workarounds. We try to live a full life, but to us, the risk of infection is high to long term quality of life. If that calculus changes, so will our behavior. I certainly hope it does, but for now that's where we are at.

I could not care less if parents at DD's daycare mask their child. It doesn't affect me, so I definitely don't think they are my enemy. The masks rarely cover their nose and often don't cover their mouths either so it's more of a chin strap anyway. Which does make me wonder why they do it. Doesn't mean I need to confront them about it. What could possibly be the benefit of that?

To be fair, you posted asking why they still do it. It sounded to me like it bothered you on some level, but I guess not.

DP- you aren't curious why parents would force their kids to wear something that's so obviously ineffective and interferes with social interactions/communication? Like what is the point? I mean, I don't really care either except that teachers at our daycare felt pressured to mask up again because so many parents continued to send their kids wearing masks half-a$$.

As someone who masks in an area where usually NO ONE else does (military base), I don't think you can blame other parents for teachers who mask. They are adults and if masks are optional, they are making a choice to do it. If I had a younger kid, I would want to protect them from all the circulating viruses, but I don't think cloth masks do enough (it's not nothing, but it's minimal). It would depend on what the kid could manage and was appropriate for them, and I'd probably not be in a group childcare setting right now if I could help it.

We actually have a quite few people masking this week as they are sick of getting sick before the holidays. Seems a sensible reaction to current conditions.

This. I can tell you that most kids (and adults) at our preschool are still wearing masks and the viruses are still going around anyway, including Covid outbreaks. Those we know with vulnerable family members moved to nannyshares or SAH.

YMMV We have a very vulnerable friend and her child goes to school in person. Child and husband got COVID recently and thankfully she didn't get it. Many vulnerable people do take the risk, for a variety of reasons.

FWIW, “school” as in K-12, is a bit easier to navigate than preschool/daycare, for several reasons. The risks can be mitigated a bit more (speaking from personal experience)

Their kid still got COVID though. Since the beginning of the pandemic we've known young kids are less likely to spread COVID than older ones, so I am not sure your risk assessment is correct.

That analysis was proven wrong.

Not really. Young children are still less likely to get COVID and when they do it is more likely to be asymptomatic, which is less likely to spread. Viral shedding increases with age. The problem is when they do get a symptomatic infection, it is more likely to spread within the household because mitigation strategies within a household with an infected child are very difficult. It's easier though if a lower risk parent can care for the child and the higher risk parent can distance from them.

We also don't know the longterm effects of repeated "mild" infections in young kids. Not interested in being part of that experiment, but you do you.

Ok, will do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They are riding high on the moral ground that COVID gives them to look down on anyone who doesn't agree with them. "I'm such a good person! I wear my mask! I do whatever the cdc tells me to do. If Fauci says boost, I say shoot me up!"

Thankfully this forum isn't real life. No one cares irl.

It differs from place to place. My in laws live in a community full of Trumpsters and nearly everyone is unmasked and few are fully vaccinated let alone boosted. Although many of their neighbors and coworkers have had Covid more than once or are struggling with long Covid, they can’t deviate from what the people around them do. Yet they are shocked when Grandma dies or Junior is hospitalized.

Both are wrong. COVID purity moralizing is extremely off putting. Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior. If you are just literally posting about rising case rates or your personal experience with long COVID, I do think that can be valuable. But if you are just shouting into the abyss about people not taking COVID seriously enough, you're not achieving anything.

Please take your admonishment that "Nobody who doesn't already agree with you is going to be convinced to change their behavior" to heart. People have picked their sides at this point. Thinking of people on the other side of the line from you as psychopaths and P.O.S. isn't helping sway them to your side, and I don't think it's healthy mentally for the person who's doing it, either.

I don't think of "people on the other side of the line" are psychopaths and P O Ss. I think there are some pro mask/lockdown posters who behave horribly/dishonestly on these boards who are P O Ss and psychopaths. These are people who post falsehoods repeatedly and ignore when someone posts proof that they are wrong. People who say any child's mental illness was caused by their parents. I've seen that gem a lot. People who insist than anyone who isn't masking right now didn't make any sacrifices in 2020-21 - also a common talking point. Those posters are psychopaths.

Everyone on the pro-masking side will eventually give up masks. In other words, the people in favor of normalcy will "win." It's truly crazy that people are planning on giving up normal socialization for themselves and their children indefinitely. Lack of normal socializing will also cause changes to the brain and remodeling of circuitry...

It’s been almost 3 years. When will people give up masks exactly? Most of the families at our daycare are still masking their 2-4yos even though not required anymore and I truly don’t get what the endgame is. Masks are mostly a joke in that environment anyway but clearly they think the minimal benefit is worth it. For how long though?

Why not ask them? The endgame for them is to probably limit Covid infections in their chidren, but I can't read their minds. That's our reason to mask our school age kids.

DP you know exactly why we don't ask. Because anyone who questions masking, even toddler masking, gets accused of causing mass death/disability (see the first page of this thread). Even our therapist, who indicated privately to me that DD's in-school therapy would be easier without masks (and in fact once they dropped the mask requirement for everyone suddenly we saw a lot of progress) did not want to come out and say that to the teachers. It had been a struggle to get them to even allow the therapist into the school, so it was a very calculated decision.

What this really comes down to is for how long should the general population make sacrifices to prevent death/disability in a small (but definitely significant) percentage of people. And how do we decide which sacrifices are worth it? What I see a lot on these boards is that folks do not think masking (of toddlers or older children and adults) or avoiding indoor activities is a sacrifice at all, and that COVID precautions don't cause any significant harm. Many of us did change our behavior significantly in 2020-2021 because we do recognize that COVID is serious. By the time 2022 rolled around, it became clear that the cost to ourselves and our child was too much. These precautions are fine for short periods of time. When they are in place for years, for many of us the harms build up. Maybe you haven't experienced that in your family and that's great. But we have and the harms are real. It's a risk though, to say this publicly, because those that haven't had the issues we have deny that they even exist and think of us as murderers. No thanks. The risk is not worth the benefit of such a conversation. I will stick to the people in my life who recognize that different people have different priorities and priorities other than COVID are valid.

Of course our kids have experienced Covid related frustrations. It's not fun to be the only kid sitting outside for lunch, or any number of situations that they deal with. And I don't know anyone who would prefer to wear masks if there were zero perceived threat. People approach risk differently. If you child is able to receive maskless therapy right now, that's great and I hope it continues. I don't think forcing toddlers to mask is fair either, despite all the assumptions made about me because I mask. If mandates ever came back, I would support exceptions for small children and certain other children. Just don't judge parents who do mask their toddlers. They aren't your enemy.

We aren't giving up the masks in our house because we have found workarounds. We try to live a full life, but to us, the risk of infection is high to long term quality of life. If that calculus changes, so will our behavior. I certainly hope it does, but for now that's where we are at.

I could not care less if parents at DD's daycare mask their child. It doesn't affect me, so I definitely don't think they are my enemy. The masks rarely cover their nose and often don't cover their mouths either so it's more of a chin strap anyway. Which does make me wonder why they do it. Doesn't mean I need to confront them about it. What could possibly be the benefit of that?

To be fair, you posted asking why they still do it. It sounded to me like it bothered you on some level, but I guess not.

DP- you aren't curious why parents would force their kids to wear something that's so obviously ineffective and interferes with social interactions/communication? Like what is the point? I mean, I don't really care either except that teachers at our daycare felt pressured to mask up again because so many parents continued to send their kids wearing masks half-a$$.

As someone who masks in an area where usually NO ONE else does (military base), I don't think you can blame other parents for teachers who mask. They are adults and if masks are optional, they are making a choice to do it. If I had a younger kid, I would want to protect them from all the circulating viruses, but I don't think cloth masks do enough (it's not nothing, but it's minimal). It would depend on what the kid could manage and was appropriate for them, and I'd probably not be in a group childcare setting right now if I could help it.

We actually have a quite few people masking this week as they are sick of getting sick before the holidays. Seems a sensible reaction to current conditions.

This. I can tell you that most kids (and adults) at our preschool are still wearing masks and the viruses are still going around anyway, including Covid outbreaks. Those we know with vulnerable family members moved to nannyshares or SAH.

YMMV We have a very vulnerable friend and her child goes to school in person. Child and husband got COVID recently and thankfully she didn't get it. Many vulnerable people do take the risk, for a variety of reasons.

FWIW, “school” as in K-12, is a bit easier to navigate than preschool/daycare, for several reasons. The risks can be mitigated a bit more (speaking from personal experience)

Their kid still got COVID though. Since the beginning of the pandemic we've known young kids are less likely to spread COVID than older ones, so I am not sure your risk assessment is correct.

That analysis was proven wrong.

Not really. Young children are still less likely to get COVID and when they do it is more likely to be asymptomatic, which is less likely to spread. Viral shedding increases with age. The problem is when they do get a symptomatic infection, it is more likely to spread within the household because mitigation strategies within a household with an infected child are very difficult. It's easier though if a lower risk parent can care for the child and the higher risk parent can distance from them.

We also don't know the longterm effects of repeated "mild" infections in young kids. Not interested in being part of that experiment, but you do you.

Ok, will do.

+1 I do know social isolation has been terrible for my child, so I will prioritize dealing with the issues she does have (which require exposing her to other people), not the ones random people on the internet think she might develop.

[Anonymous]

When there is more than one issue to deal with, some of us just multitask. But okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When there is more than one issue to deal with, some of us just multitask. But okay.

And some of us are honest about trade-offs. But you do you.

[Anonymous]

It's been interesting to watch the warnings about covid morph over time. At first it was about becoming extremely ill or even dying. Once we had vaccinations that was wasn't really a threat for most people anymore, so the messaging switched to the fear of long covid. Then we all saw nearly everyone we know get covid in the last year and not have any long term impact, so it switched to next time you're infected you'll get long covid, which doesn't really make sense. Now we have people suggesting that we need to be afraid that something is secretly wrong in healthy appearing people that will rear it's head in the future because covid.

Maybe at some point you should consider stepping off the covid train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's been interesting to watch the warnings about covid morph over time. At first it was about becoming extremely ill or even dying. Once we had vaccinations that was wasn't really a threat for most people anymore, so the messaging switched to the fear of long covid. Then we all saw nearly everyone we know get covid in the last year and not have any long term impact, so it switched to next time you're infected you'll get long covid, which doesn't really make sense. Now we have people suggesting that we need to be afraid that something is secretly wrong in healthy appearing people that will rear it's head in the future because covid.

Maybe at some point you should consider stepping off the covid train.

I totally agree with your first paragraph.

But long COVID and death from COVID are real so it is worth it to take practical steps to reduce transmission to protect the small percentage (but large number) of people that will be impacted in these ways. Indefinite masking and avoiding indoor activities is not practical. Staying home and/or masking when sick or during surges is practical.

But when people are flooded with fearmongering about long COVID that is very clearly false, they of course say f7ck it, I'm going to "step off the COVID train". So, congrats folks, look what you've done. I do often wonder if these long COVID alarmists are actually right-wing trolls. If so, they're very clever.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but the actions of people who are not taking precautions and infecting others with covid are simply not the fault of people who are taking precautions or warning about the potential long term health risks of covid.

It's been everyone for themselves for a while now. Someone else's bad behavior is their own fault, and not the fault of people who are warning others to be more careful. That's a neat trick! But since you don't want mask mandates and want people to be responsible for their own behavior, you also have to accept that people actually are responsible for their behavior. So strange for you to blame the careful people for the mass infection of others sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been interesting to watch the warnings about covid morph over time. At first it was about becoming extremely ill or even dying. Once we had vaccinations that was wasn't really a threat for most people anymore, so the messaging switched to the fear of long covid. Then we all saw nearly everyone we know get covid in the last year and not have any long term impact, so it switched to next time you're infected you'll get long covid, which doesn't really make sense. Now we have people suggesting that we need to be afraid that something is secretly wrong in healthy appearing people that will rear it's head in the future because covid.

Maybe at some point you should consider stepping off the covid train.

I totally agree with your first paragraph.

But long COVID and death from COVID are real so it is worth it to take practical steps to reduce transmission to protect the small percentage (but large number) of people that will be impacted in these ways. Indefinite masking and avoiding indoor activities is not practical. Staying home and/or masking when sick or during surges is practical.

But when people are flooded with fearmongering about long COVID that is very clearly false, they of course say f7ck it, I'm going to "step off the COVID train". So, congrats folks, look what you've done. I do often wonder if these long COVID alarmists are actually right-wing trolls. If so, they're very clever.

I don’t think that makes any material difference. People warning about long Covid haven’t made any significant impact on peoples’ behavior. Even if couched differently, most people would not change their behavior. Most think it won’t impact them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but the actions of people who are not taking precautions and infecting others with covid are simply not the fault of people who are taking precautions or warning about the potential long term health risks of covid.

It's been everyone for themselves for a while now. Someone else's bad behavior is their own fault, and not the fault of people who are warning others to be more careful. That's a neat trick! But since you don't want mask mandates and want people to be responsible for their own behavior, you also have to accept that people actually are responsible for their behavior. So strange for you to blame the careful people for the mass infection of others sheesh.

It’s on brand. If there is long term damage, prepare to be demonized for escaping infection. You probably “knew”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but the actions of people who are not taking precautions and infecting others with covid are simply not the fault of people who are taking precautions or warning about the potential long term health risks of covid.

It's been everyone for themselves for a while now. Someone else's bad behavior is their own fault, and not the fault of people who are warning others to be more careful. That's a neat trick! But since you don't want mask mandates and want people to be responsible for their own behavior, you also have to accept that people actually are responsible for their behavior. So strange for you to blame the careful people for the mass infection of others sheesh.

Let’s be clear, by bad behavior, you mean not masking, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been interesting to watch the warnings about covid morph over time. At first it was about becoming extremely ill or even dying. Once we had vaccinations that was wasn't really a threat for most people anymore, so the messaging switched to the fear of long covid. Then we all saw nearly everyone we know get covid in the last year and not have any long term impact, so it switched to next time you're infected you'll get long covid, which doesn't really make sense. Now we have people suggesting that we need to be afraid that something is secretly wrong in healthy appearing people that will rear it's head in the future because covid.

Maybe at some point you should consider stepping off the covid train.

I totally agree with your first paragraph.

But long COVID and death from COVID are real so it is worth it to take practical steps to reduce transmission to protect the small percentage (but large number) of people that will be impacted in these ways. Indefinite masking and avoiding indoor activities is not practical. Staying home and/or masking when sick or during surges is practical.

But when people are flooded with fearmongering about long COVID that is very clearly false, they of course say f7ck it, I'm going to "step off the COVID train". So, congrats folks, look what you've done. I do often wonder if these long COVID alarmists are actually right-wing trolls. If so, they're very clever.

I don’t think that makes any material difference. People warning about long Covid haven’t made any significant impact on peoples’ behavior. Even if couched differently, most people would not change their behavior. Most think it won’t impact them.

Sadly, I know many 20-30 somethings, the kind of people immersed in social media and Twitter, who are deathly afraid of long covid and still don’t date/socialize normally due to the fear.