Reply to Should so called “thanksgiving” be a national day of mourning?

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Reply to "Should so called “thanksgiving” be a national day of mourning?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America. [/quote]

So maybe we shouldn’t have based this holiday on the myth about “pilgrims and Indians”.  [/quote]

Schools are dropping any mention of Indians at all. It's not just turkeys and Pilgrims. Sounds like that ought to make some people happy, everyone will just forget about them.[/quote]

Yup. They want to pretend like it never happened. Or the people aren’t still suffering today.

Revisionist history to the max. [/quote]

Not so much revisionist as irrelevant. People are moving forward, why should they dwell on the past when it has nothing to do with them? Obviously the people who were hurt feel differently, but they aren't making much of an impact convincing anyone else to put their needs first. Everyone has their own problems these days.[/quote]

Why do we bother to learn any history at all? It all happened in the past. Why dwell on any of it?  :lol:

Maybe if we don’t sugar coat history just to make white people feel comfortable then we can learn from our mistakes and do better in the future. 
[/quote]

Ha, as if white people are only bad.  So do the Plymouth protestors also cover the section in history where native Americans own African slaves? Yes, it really existed:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

Let's also not even get into the entire violent and oppressive histories all across Asia, the Arab slave trade, etc.  It's almost as if everyone's history is filled with oppression.

Go crawl under a rock and cry about it, because it will never end.[/quote]

Strawman. We are talking about *our* history and treatment of indigenous people.

Yes, enslaving people is bad. Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong.

Why is it so difficult for some people to acknowledge that? 
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Indigenous history is our history.  They owned slaves.  Why are we whitewashing native American history?  They were slave owners.[/quote]

Right. The Asian and Arab slave trade is not our history.  :roll:

As I already said, yes, enslaving people is bad. No one has claimed otherwise.

Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong. Wouldn’t you agree? 
[/quote]

Sure oppressing people is wrong.  Germany is wrong for killing millions of Jews.  Japan is wrong for killing millions during WW2 too.  I don't think Germany and Japan need to be forced to 'mourn' or have a day of 'repenting' for what they did. History is history.[/quote]

Germany and Japan each paid massive reparations and we do have memorial days. ??

These are people living within our country. Our responsibility continues. Acknowledging their loss is the least we should do. 
[/quote]

We already have Indigenous Peoples' Day. And yet, that's not good enough even thought that's what you're asking for. So, what do you really want to happen?[/quote]

I’m not personally asking for anything.

On Thanksgiving, I do think we, the people in the US, should acknowledge the reality/perspective of the other people who were at this feast of our lore. If we are reflecting on all that we have, we can acknowledge there was also a massive human cost behind it.

Outside this holiday, we, the people of the US, should fix the wrongs that still persist today. 
[/quote]

Exactly how would you like people to acknowledge the human cost? Should Grandma say "I'm sorry for the Trail of Tears, but thankful for my health" every year? What does that accomplish exactly? Say whatever you like at your table but the performative aspect of what you are suggesting is ridiculous. And until you give up your home and property to fix the wrongs you're a hypocrite. We also means you.
[/quote]

We could acknowledge it in public schools. Include multiple perspectives of history.

In addition to pardoning turkeys, the POTUS could host a function for tribal leaders. Broadcast between football games.

If they are part of “the story”, include their voice. [/quote]

Cool, you get on that PSA. Your average person isn't going to tune into a function for tribal leaders. And they will be using the restroom between football games. Are you always this ineffective at change? Lot of lip service with no real impact. Embarrassing. Are you an actual adult?[/quote]

Yes, many Americans are indifferent and willfully choose ignorance. 
[/quote]

Please share with us what you have done to right this wrong? Flowery statements acknowledging the history do nothing, what actual things have you done to make a tiny bit of difference? Put your money where your mouth is.[/quote]

How exactly can I make millions of Americans less indifferent or ignorant? That’s a tough one. 
[/quote]

You’re a hypocrite. As expected. All bark and no bite.[/quote]

Yup. And terminally, terminally smug and boring. No one’s going to give her and her attitude the time of day. Such a turnoff.[/quote]

Uh, we're discussing issues, not particular peoples' personalities. A turnoff is someone trying to engage in an intellectual exchange who resorts to shallow insults like the ones above. Sheesh, up your game, PPs.[/quote]

I guess the PPs don’t have much substance behind their argument that Americans should be indifferent and ignorant about Native American history. 
[/quote]

DP here.

:roll:  Of course I regret colonization and the mass slaughter of Native Americans. And I can probably speak for everybody else here that they do, too.

On a much smaller scale, though, I regret performative bs like histrionics and insults on DCUM that accomplish nothing. Hypocrisy doesn’t further any cause, it undermines it. [/quote]

There is nothing “hypocritical” about wanting more public awareness of the real Native American story around Thanksgiving or wanting broader changes to make things right. 
[/quote]

Of course, and I agree.

But, there's everything "hypocritical" about ranting on DCUM yet doing nothing IRL to further the change you want. DCUM rants are worth squat.[/quote]

That’s not hypocritical. I haven’t said people should do anything I don’t do myself.

And you are making assumptions about what I do - or don’t do - IRL. [/quote]

So what DO you do? [/quote]

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