Mandatory vaccines for teachers/staff and eligible students

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

Governments, from the president down to mayors, are going to take increasingly coercive measures to force people to get vaccinated. It's already happening elsewhere, and it's only a matter of time before it comes to D.C. as well. Bowser is a mayor who leads from behind -- once lots of other political leaders do something, then she will find the courage to copy whatever they decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are confused about Weingarten’s statement, apparently made on a TV show. unclear what AFT’s position actually is about mandatory vax.

https://mobile.twitter.com/crampell/status/1424392084472094722

Only you are confused. As I just said, the AFT supports negotiating mandates. This has been the case all along.

A mandate involves more than just shots in arms. What are the ramifications for those who can't or won't vaccinate? Will vaccination status be made public? Will sick leave be allowed for anyone who suffers from vaccine side effects? Will the mandate apply to potential booster shots? Etc. etc. All of that has to be worked out.

But a mandate is black and white, there should be zero negotiation. If you can’t or won’t get vaccinated, you no longer have employment in education. By throwing in “… we’ll what about people that…” isn’t a mandate, it’s a choice. And considering that teachers in this area were pushed to the front of the line in February, if they don’t have vaccines now, they need to drop everything and get a shot -CVS, Walgreens etc.- are open very late, some open 24 hours. Get it now or get your resume together because you will no longer be employed.

Sadly for you, I guess, life is a bit more complex than your imagination. In reality, some folks have medical reasons not to be vaccinated. Moreover, employment contracts cannot simply be broken on a whim. Thankfully, both the Bowser administration and the WTU took a more serious approach than what you are advocating and were able to reach a mutually-acceptable agreement.

Hi Jeff. Can we get some sources on your assertions? Can you point us to the specific language in WTU's collective bargaining agreement that prevents the city from imposing a vaccine mandate on teachers? Also, doctors will tell you that almost no one has a valid medical reason for not getting vaccinated. Those are rare.

I am quite sure that the DC government could have imposed a mandate. I am similarly sure that if the mandate included penalties affecting employment, it would have been challenged in court and would have been essentially worthless. But, not having a copy of the contract on hand, I can't provide you the specific language. This reality has been clear to anyone paying attention to the ongoing discussions.

I have no idea how common medical exemptions are and I really don't care. Nor do I care about religious exemptions which I personally find even more absurd. But just about every mandate includes such exemptions so there is no reason for DC to be different. If those claiming exemptions want to get tested weekly for the indefinite future, that's their choice I guess. Personally, I'd do a different cost-benefit analysis.

copying this from another thread, because it seems relevant:

I work in HR and see the exemption requests from the vaccine mandates. There’s a lot of people with extreme religious beliefs that relate to vaccines generally or this vaccine more specifically because of the testing on the fetal cell line. (I’m always curious if these people also reject medicine tested on those lines.). There seems to be a large overlap with those people believing conspiracy theories about the vaccine because they also often cite inaccurate info about the supposed risks that they got off questionable internet sites.

There are also people with medical requests that are fairly vague but similar to the lady above who said autoimmune, heart or clotting issues, etc. I sort of wonder about the doctors signing off on these requests but they are out there.

TL;DR: People who still aren't vaccinated are kooks with bizarre theories about vaccines and coronavirus.

It's mostly the wackos and the nutjobs who still aren't vaccinated.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

Governments, from the president down to mayors, are going to take increasingly coercive measures to force people to get vaccinated. It's already happening elsewhere, and it's only a matter of time before it comes to D.C. as well. Bowser is a mayor who leads from behind -- once lots of other political leaders do something, then she will find the courage to copy whatever they decide.

What does that have to do with this topic? The agreement announced today is the agreement we are getting. You can ramble on about irrelevant topics all you want but that's not going to change.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

It's not likely to be painful enough (not physically but from an inconvenience standpoint) to make anyone change their mind, at least not in the beginning. Last year DCPS sent out Fed Ex tests weekly to any school based employees working in person who requested the service (which was opt in and then they just kept coming.) The communication from DCPS to opt in for home delivered weekly tests is likely on its way. This means the pain point will be dropping off the Fed Ex box, and even then it can probably be arranged to be picked up from the school. DCPS probably needs to make the weekly mandated tests inconvenient to actually change behavior. The union probably also agreed to the mandate because DCPS probably agreed to the red carpet COVID testing service. I mean, DC/DCPS is swimming in Fed COVID relief money and Lap Corp and Fed Ex aren't complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

It's not likely to be painful enough (not physically but from an inconvenience standpoint) to make anyone change their mind, at least not in the beginning. Last year DCPS sent out Fed Ex tests weekly to any school based employees working in person who requested the service (which was opt in and then they just kept coming.) The communication from DCPS to opt in for home delivered weekly tests is likely on its way. This means the pain point will be dropping off the Fed Ex box, and even then it can probably be arranged to be picked up from the school. DCPS probably needs to make the weekly mandated tests inconvenient to actually change behavior. The union probably also agreed to the mandate because DCPS probably agreed to the red carpet COVID testing service. I mean, DC/DCPS is swimming in Fed COVID relief money and Lap Corp and Fed Ex aren't complaining.

+1

I was thinking the same thing. The people I know who won’t get the vaccine have really dug in their heels. Testing every week if it’s convenient (as you described) wouldn’t make them get the vaccine. If you made testing more inconvenient they might get the vaccine or they would skip testing for several weeks and get fired. Kind of a win/win for COVID safety in schools either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

It's not likely to be painful enough (not physically but from an inconvenience standpoint) to make anyone change their mind, at least not in the beginning. Last year DCPS sent out Fed Ex tests weekly to any school based employees working in person who requested the service (which was opt in and then they just kept coming.) The communication from DCPS to opt in for home delivered weekly tests is likely on its way. This means the pain point will be dropping off the Fed Ex box, and even then it can probably be arranged to be picked up from the school. DCPS probably needs to make the weekly mandated tests inconvenient to actually change behavior. The union probably also agreed to the mandate because DCPS probably agreed to the red carpet COVID testing service. I mean, DC/DCPS is swimming in Fed COVID relief money and Lap Corp and Fed Ex aren't complaining.

+1

I was thinking the same thing. The people I know who won’t get the vaccine have really dug in their heels. Testing every week if it’s convenient (as you described) wouldn’t make them get the vaccine. If you made testing more inconvenient they might get the vaccine or they would skip testing for several weeks and get fired. Kind of a win/win for COVID safety in schools either way.

Ugh. If it works this way, what a waste of those COVID relief funds. We have real, extreme needs, particularly in Wards 7 & 8, and...to just waste it on accommodating antivaxxers...

I'm hoping it's not true, because it would make me sick.

[Anonymous]

The money is definitely coming from taxpayers to pay for testing.

Employees should be required to pay tor their own testing, then people would get vaccinated. But other citizens should have their taxes pay for the testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

It's not likely to be painful enough (not physically but from an inconvenience standpoint) to make anyone change their mind, at least not in the beginning. Last year DCPS sent out Fed Ex tests weekly to any school based employees working in person who requested the service (which was opt in and then they just kept coming.) The communication from DCPS to opt in for home delivered weekly tests is likely on its way. This means the pain point will be dropping off the Fed Ex box, and even then it can probably be arranged to be picked up from the school. DCPS probably needs to make the weekly mandated tests inconvenient to actually change behavior. The union probably also agreed to the mandate because DCPS probably agreed to the red carpet COVID testing service. I mean, DC/DCPS is swimming in Fed COVID relief money and Lap Corp and Fed Ex aren't complaining.

+1

I was thinking the same thing. The people I know who won’t get the vaccine have really dug in their heels. Testing every week if it’s convenient (as you described) wouldn’t make them get the vaccine. If you made testing more inconvenient they might get the vaccine or they would skip testing for several weeks and get fired. Kind of a win/win for COVID safety in schools either way.

Ugh. If it works this way, what a waste of those COVID relief funds. We have real, extreme needs, particularly in Wards 7 & 8, and...to just waste it on accommodating antivaxxers...

I'm hoping it's not true, because it would make me sick.

This.

Another example of how the pandemic has exposed who among us cares for anyone/anything but themselves.

[Anonymous]

Germany announced that people who refuse the vaccine will pay for their own tests. Make it costly AND inconvenient to keep up with the testing requirements that will lose you your job if you don’t do them and maybe people will choose the free vaccine instead. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/europe/germany-covid-test.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Germany announced that people who refuse the vaccine will pay for their own tests. Make it costly AND inconvenient to keep up with the testing requirements that will lose you your job if you don’t do them and maybe people will choose the free vaccine instead. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/europe/germany-covid-test.html

This is a good idea. We need to make life increasingly difficult for people who refused to get vaccinated. And by now, most of the people who still aren't vaccinated are actively choosing not to get vaccinated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Germany announced that people who refuse the vaccine will pay for their own tests. Make it costly AND inconvenient to keep up with the testing requirements that will lose you your job if you don’t do them and maybe people will choose the free vaccine instead. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/europe/germany-covid-test.html

This is a good idea. We need to make life increasingly difficult for people who refused to get vaccinated. And by now, most of the people who still aren't vaccinated are actively choosing not to get vaccinated.

+1

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the coronavirus epidemic is supposedly serious enough to cancel school for a year and a half, but not serious enough to require teachers to get vaccinated.

As of today, they are required to either get vaccinated or get tested weekly. Realistically, we can't get better than that. A few posters who apparently have authoritarian tendencies think you can bludgeon people into compliance, but it just doesn't work that way.

This is just wrong.

Vaccines have been freely available for months and yet a huge share of adults still aren't vaccinated (the vaccination rate in Ward 8 is 24 percent, which is lower than it is in Mississippi). It's probably safe to assume that by now that the vast majority of people who still aren't vaccinated have decided that they aren't ever going to get vaccinated.

That's why everyone from the White House to the city of New York to the NFL is considering much more drastic measures to get people vaccinated. If we don't crank up the pressure, the mutations of the virus will get ever more dangerous and the pandemic will never end. Wearing a mask and just hoping that it eventually ends is not going to solve anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vaccines-delta/2021/08/05/4359ac76-f567-11eb-a49b-d96f2dac0942_story.html

You are having trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. In your fantasy world, you just have to snap your fingers and everyone complies. In reality, a lot of people don't really care what you do with your fingers. If the Mayor simply told employees that they either had to get vaccinated or be fired, there would be an immediate court challenge. The order would be put on hold while the issue was adjudicated, and we would be no better off than we were yesterday. Your idea that Bowser could use dictatorial powers ignores the realty that Bowser is not a dictator.

But, recognizing that any mandate had to include medical or religious exemptions, and by working with the unions, the Mayor achieved the best result that we were ever going to get (at least in a reasonable time frame). Employees can have all the objections to vaccines that they want to. They can believe that vaccines turn them into zombies (apparently one theory going around). But, they then have to be tested weekly. I predict that it won't be too many weeks before that gets old and vaccines don't look so bad. But, regardless, most will get vaccinated and the rest will be tested. All around, not a bad result.

Governments, from the president down to mayors, are going to take increasingly coercive measures to force people to get vaccinated. It's already happening elsewhere, and it's only a matter of time before it comes to D.C. as well. Bowser is a mayor who leads from behind -- once lots of other political leaders do something, then she will find the courage to copy whatever they decide.

What does that have to do with this topic? The agreement announced today is the agreement we are getting. You can ramble on about irrelevant topics all you want but that's not going to change.

I understood PP’s point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are confused about Weingarten’s statement, apparently made on a TV show. unclear what AFT’s position actually is about mandatory vax.

https://mobile.twitter.com/crampell/status/1424392084472094722

Only you are confused. As I just said, the AFT supports negotiating mandates. This has been the case all along.

A mandate involves more than just shots in arms. What are the ramifications for those who can't or won't vaccinate? Will vaccination status be made public? Will sick leave be allowed for anyone who suffers from vaccine side effects? Will the mandate apply to potential booster shots? Etc. etc. All of that has to be worked out.

But a mandate is black and white, there should be zero negotiation. If you can’t or won’t get vaccinated, you no longer have employment in education. By throwing in “… we’ll what about people that…” isn’t a mandate, it’s a choice. And considering that teachers in this area were pushed to the front of the line in February, if they don’t have vaccines now, they need to drop everything and get a shot -CVS, Walgreens etc.- are open very late, some open 24 hours. Get it now or get your resume together because you will no longer be employed.

Sadly for you, I guess, life is a bit more complex than your imagination. In reality, some folks have medical reasons not to be vaccinated. Moreover, employment contracts cannot simply be broken on a whim. Thankfully, both the Bowser administration and the WTU took a more serious approach than what you are advocating and were able to reach a mutually-acceptable agreement.

Hi Jeff. Can we get some sources on your assertions? Can you point us to the specific language in WTU's collective bargaining agreement that prevents the city from imposing a vaccine mandate on teachers? Also, doctors will tell you that almost no one has a valid medical reason for not getting vaccinated. Those are rare.

I am quite sure that the DC government could have imposed a mandate. I am similarly sure that if the mandate included penalties affecting employment, it would have been challenged in court and would have been essentially worthless. But, not having a copy of the contract on hand, I can't provide you the specific language. This reality has been clear to anyone paying attention to the ongoing discussions.

I have no idea how common medical exemptions are and I really don't care. Nor do I care about religious exemptions which I personally find even more absurd. But just about every mandate includes such exemptions so there is no reason for DC to be different. If those claiming exemptions want to get tested weekly for the indefinite future, that's their choice I guess. Personally, I'd do a different cost-benefit analysis.

copying this from another thread, because it seems relevant:

I work in HR and see the exemption requests from the vaccine mandates. There’s a lot of people with extreme religious beliefs that relate to vaccines generally or this vaccine more specifically because of the testing on the fetal cell line. (I’m always curious if these people also reject medicine tested on those lines.). There seems to be a large overlap with those people believing conspiracy theories about the vaccine because they also often cite inaccurate info about the supposed risks that they got off questionable internet sites.

There are also people with medical requests that are fairly vague but similar to the lady above who said autoimmune, heart or clotting issues, etc. I sort of wonder about the doctors signing off on these requests but they are out there.

TL;DR: People who still aren't vaccinated are kooks with bizarre theories about vaccines and coronavirus.

It's mostly the wackos and the nutjobs who still aren't vaccinated.

Do you think that adults in Wards 7 and 8 are wackos and nut jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are confused about Weingarten’s statement, apparently made on a TV show. unclear what AFT’s position actually is about mandatory vax.

https://mobile.twitter.com/crampell/status/1424392084472094722

Only you are confused. As I just said, the AFT supports negotiating mandates. This has been the case all along.

A mandate involves more than just shots in arms. What are the ramifications for those who can't or won't vaccinate? Will vaccination status be made public? Will sick leave be allowed for anyone who suffers from vaccine side effects? Will the mandate apply to potential booster shots? Etc. etc. All of that has to be worked out.

But a mandate is black and white, there should be zero negotiation. If you can’t or won’t get vaccinated, you no longer have employment in education. By throwing in “… we’ll what about people that…” isn’t a mandate, it’s a choice. And considering that teachers in this area were pushed to the front of the line in February, if they don’t have vaccines now, they need to drop everything and get a shot -CVS, Walgreens etc.- are open very late, some open 24 hours. Get it now or get your resume together because you will no longer be employed.

Sadly for you, I guess, life is a bit more complex than your imagination. In reality, some folks have medical reasons not to be vaccinated. Moreover, employment contracts cannot simply be broken on a whim. Thankfully, both the Bowser administration and the WTU took a more serious approach than what you are advocating and were able to reach a mutually-acceptable agreement.

Hi Jeff. Can we get some sources on your assertions? Can you point us to the specific language in WTU's collective bargaining agreement that prevents the city from imposing a vaccine mandate on teachers? Also, doctors will tell you that almost no one has a valid medical reason for not getting vaccinated. Those are rare.

I am quite sure that the DC government could have imposed a mandate. I am similarly sure that if the mandate included penalties affecting employment, it would have been challenged in court and would have been essentially worthless. But, not having a copy of the contract on hand, I can't provide you the specific language. This reality has been clear to anyone paying attention to the ongoing discussions.

I have no idea how common medical exemptions are and I really don't care. Nor do I care about religious exemptions which I personally find even more absurd. But just about every mandate includes such exemptions so there is no reason for DC to be different. If those claiming exemptions want to get tested weekly for the indefinite future, that's their choice I guess. Personally, I'd do a different cost-benefit analysis.

copying this from another thread, because it seems relevant:

I work in HR and see the exemption requests from the vaccine mandates. There’s a lot of people with extreme religious beliefs that relate to vaccines generally or this vaccine more specifically because of the testing on the fetal cell line. (I’m always curious if these people also reject medicine tested on those lines.). There seems to be a large overlap with those people believing conspiracy theories about the vaccine because they also often cite inaccurate info about the supposed risks that they got off questionable internet sites.

There are also people with medical requests that are fairly vague but similar to the lady above who said autoimmune, heart or clotting issues, etc. I sort of wonder about the doctors signing off on these requests but they are out there.

TL;DR: People who still aren't vaccinated are kooks with bizarre theories about vaccines and coronavirus.

It's mostly the wackos and the nutjobs who still aren't vaccinated.

Do you think that adults in Wards 7 and 8 are wackos and nut jobs?

No they are the acceptable kind of anti-vaxxers.

Man oh jeez can we get some nuance in discussing the issue of the unvaccinated poor Black people in Ward 7 and 8?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Man oh jeez can we get some nuance in discussing the issue of the unvaccinated poor Black people in Ward 7 and 8?

I was just looking at the data on this and the issue is not really adults in those wards, but younger people (especially children). Less than 10% of the 12-15 year olds in those wards are vaccinated. They are over 50% for the 50 year olds and up. Most of the city is doing poorly for 17 year olds and under. The problems that schools are going to face are not unvaccinated teachers, but unvaccinated students.