I’m a liberal democrat horrified by the current Dr Seuss drama and normalization of censorship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr Potatohead
Dr Suess


These are things the GOP puts out there to distract from the insurrection, the Texas/Midwest catastrophe, and the crimes being surfaced from the Trump Administration.

If you are on this thread, then the GOP's strategy is working.

Not if you're on this thread to remind people what the real pressing issues are. They aren't a couple of Dr. Suess books.

You really think anyone on DCUM doesn't read the newspapers? Interesting theory.

This isn't a news site, it's a forum for discussion.

Right, so on a thread consistong mostly of progressives congratulating themselves for not caring about this story becauae it is a GOP distraction, PP shows up to remind that this is a GOP distraction because there is other news, and that's okay with you because this isn't a news site anyway. What did you say the GOP was doing?

Distorting the truth, if not outright lying.

Yes, and is there someone who doesn't do this? It seems that today's political discourse consists solely of pointing out what's wrong with other people. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with that.

Consider the stakes involved, otherwise you're not being intellectually honest about what's going on. One side is pointing out how the other lied about the election, supported an armed insurrection, did not hold the president to account, and is now pretending that it never even happened. That side is super angry that Dr. Seuss' racist caricatures are no longer in print and is blaming the other for censorship (???).

C'mon. Don't both sides this.

[Anonymous]

Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr Potatohead
Dr Suess


These are things the GOP puts out there to distract from the insurrection, the Texas/Midwest catastrophe, and the crimes being surfaced from the Trump Administration.

If you are on this thread, then the GOP's strategy is working.

Not if you're on this thread to remind people what the real pressing issues are. They aren't a couple of Dr. Suess books.

You really think anyone on DCUM doesn't read the newspapers? Interesting theory.

This isn't a news site, it's a forum for discussion.

Right, so on a thread consistong mostly of progressives congratulating themselves for not caring about this story becauae it is a GOP distraction, PP shows up to remind that this is a GOP distraction because there is other news, and that's okay with you because this isn't a news site anyway. What did you say the GOP was doing?

Distorting the truth, if not outright lying.

Yes, and is there someone who doesn't do this? It seems that today's political discourse consists solely of pointing out what's wrong with other people. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with that.

Consider the stakes involved, otherwise you're not being intellectually honest about what's going on. One side is pointing out how the other lied about the election, supported an armed insurrection, did not hold the president to account, and is now pretending that it never even happened. That side is super angry that Dr. Seuss' racist caricatures are no longer in print and is blaming the other for censorship (???).

C'mon. Don't both sides this.

Frankly, I'm well beyond bothsidism and well into the "we are totally screwed" stage. Minor news items have existed since the Stone Age. It's only now in the internet age, when we are actually inundated by minor news items, that people are simple dismissing other people's minor concerns as too minor to notice, therefore it must be something else.

And the fact that you turn straight to my own supposed dishonesty is really the point. You are really assuming bad faith on my part, which is an act of bad faith. We live in a world of bath faith actors calling each other out for bad faith. I have just done it too, because there is no way out, except one. Assume that if people have a concern, that is an actual concern, and it's not something else.

I am concerned about the rise of bad actors, including my reluctant self. You can believe I mean that or not. The choice is yours.

[Anonymous]

Another culture wars non-issue to prop up the failing Republican party and distract from the looting of the middle and working classes and the destruction of the planet for profit.

[Anonymous]

“The real problem is that you think the real problem is whatever you think the real problem is”

You guys are insufferable.

There’s no problem with a publisher deciding it doesn’t want to sell a certain book anymore. Literally happens every day. If you’re concerned that our culture doesn’t value racist stereotypes anymore, then I can’t help you. The world has changed. Consumers don’t want to buy certain things anymore, publishers don’t publish it. That’s how free markets and free speech work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

I disagree. These books should not be made widely available because the damage they do far outweighs any casual right to sell or read them by society at large. No book burnings, just cease publication
Sure scholars should have access to the content, hopefully to study specifically how the author’s own racism and immoral biases are reflected in the pages, but also extended to examining the effects these books have on perpetuating racism in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

I don't think that's what happens when you stock it in the children's picture book section of the book store or library. What happens is that children see racist depictions of minorities and think they are just like funny pictures of his other characters. Two year olds do not engage in literary criticism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

If you are a free individual living in a free society, you must live with and embrace the risk of being offended. Imagine all of the criticisms liberals have aimed at conservatives. Should conservatives when they rise to power declare that they should not be exposed to or worry about being exposed to words and imagery that is offensive to them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

I disagree. These books should not be made widely available because the damage they do far outweighs any casual right to sell or read them by society at large. No book burnings, just cease publication
Sure scholars should have access to the content, hopefully to study specifically how the author’s own racism and immoral biases are reflected in the pages, but also extended to examining the effects these books have on perpetuating racism in America.

You don’t actually disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another culture wars non-issue to prop up the failing Republican party and distract from the looting of the middle and working classes and the destruction of the planet for profit.

At first glance yes, but then you dig deeper into what tenured professors are teaching, what young people feel is important (racial justice) and their advocacy efforts, and some of the proposed solutions to accomplish these goals (ending standardized testing in schools, showing math work is racist, banh mi sandwiches that aren’t authentic enough in university dining halls, Smith college and careers being ruined without sufficient proof of racism, and people write scathing purity tests that shut people down or ostracize them if they don’t conform or bend in every way, or opposing views or general dissent being quashed, or high schools not being allowed to use math tests for entry) I mean i don’t trust most people. I especially don’t after so many votes for Trump. But I also don’t trust people on this. People want simple answers to complex issues. If no one is allowed to critique the so called answers to solving racial equity for fear of being branded racist then what happens? Social discord and entrenchment and all that other dystopian bad sht.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

I don't think that's what happens when you stock it in the children's picture book section of the book store or library. What happens is that children see racist depictions of minorities and think they are just like funny pictures of his other characters. Two year olds do not engage in literary criticism.

What's ironic is that it's not children who are asking for these books to be removed, but adults, the same adults who grew up reading books like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

I don't think that's what happens when you stock it in the children's picture book section of the book store or library. What happens is that children see racist depictions of minorities and think they are just like funny pictures of his other characters. Two year olds do not engage in literary criticism.

Well yeah, that’s why the publisher pulled the book. That’s not assigning the book “to the ash heap”. It’s just taking it out of print.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books and other media with racist or other problematic imagery should definitely be consigned to the ash heap of history. There is zero reason people should be exposed to or worry about being exposed to offensive pictures, words, symbols, etc. The only people crying about this know full well how these and similar content are used to reinforce their undeserved privilege.

That’s not exactly what’s happening. I wouldn’t say burn the books or erase their memory. Just let people decide if they want to sell and study them or not, lol.

There is utility in studying works of literature that embrace problematic themes. I mean what would English Ph.D’s do otherwise?

I disagree. These books should not be made widely available because the damage they do far outweighs any casual right to sell or read them by society at large. No book burnings, just cease publication
Sure scholars should have access to the content, hopefully to study specifically how the author’s own racism and immoral biases are reflected in the pages, but also extended to examining the effects these books have on perpetuating racism in America.

That is some Fahrenheit 451 though control right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“The real problem is that you think the real problem is whatever you think the real problem is”

You guys are insufferable.

There’s no problem with a publisher deciding it doesn’t want to sell a certain book anymore. Literally happens every day. If you’re concerned that our culture doesn’t value racist stereotypes anymore, then I can’t help you. The world has changed. Consumers don’t want to buy certain things anymore, publishers don’t publish it. That’s how free markets and free speech work.

The apparently want to buy these books, so consumer tastes haven't really changed, the publisher decided to change it for them. Why do you even care that people are talking about these books? Were you alive for New Coke? When Coca Cola told people their tastes had changed and people said, "Hell no it didn't!" It was national news for months until it changed back.

And this too is how free speech works. Pretty damn disingenuous to see it's free speech to withdraw a book but not free speech to complain about it.