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DA vs ECNL vs everything else
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Anonymous
Only the “there are more non-ECNL teams in the top 20 than ECNL” Guy seemed to think the rankings have importance. It has been hashed over and agreed that there are good players on many teams several times in this thread so his point was moot other than the academic exercise of seeing if he was right. But claiming other teams to be better misses the point. The leagues simply provide a platform that makes college scouting efficient and easier. Kids with college aspirations seek those platforms out. This doesn’t mean that other teams are not good or have good players but being on a great team is not necessarily the main reason for playing on a DA or ECNL team. |
Anonymous
And imagine how much better the good players would be if they all played on fewer teams and had to actually fight for playing time and their PPs didn't pull them out as soon as they didn't start or even play in a game? |
Anonymous
We need more kids playing overall. Catering to an “elite” 20 kids at 13 is preposterous. Claiming at that age that these 20 kids are the “chosen ones” is as dumb an idea as telling all the other kids that they are not the chosen ones. |
Anonymous
Well DA is about developing players for the pros and national team vs winning now. In theory, you want more players, wider net and more time. Restricting playing time of a player who made the DA team is not what you want to do. |
Anonymous
| ^^bevause so many girls desire to be pro soccer players by 18. Not |
Anonymous
There is a place for your kid to play regardless of level or aspirations. Unless your kid is on the National Team radar your concerns about talent concentration and leagues is pointless. |
Anonymous
And the last two have absolutely nailed the "problem" with soccer in the USA for everyone that works a us soccer headquarters and follows world cups. The USA excels at churning out great athletes with decent skills. But we don't produce enough players with true grit that it takes to compete globally at the highest levels. The men just proved it completely where some used to debate. The women have been caught by the world after a 25 year title 9 head start and are barely hanging on. They still compete because the 30 chosen ones get more resources and time together than any other group on the world. When you don't support fighting for playing time, you misunderstand the idea of time on the field overall in a game versus how having to fight for playing time, and sticking with it to keep fighting when you don't get it, actually DEVELOPS players. Training 3 or 4 times a week is where the playing time is earned. It's not about picking the 20 chosen ones or about getting 40 minutes of playing time. It's about getting the best 50 players in an age group playing for 3 or 4 teams at most, and then only playing against similar teams from other cities. From there, when they all fight and stick with it and learn, you build a culture and can pluck any 20 players for a youth national team and they show up at camp with the right mentality. In America, if a player doesn't start a game, their parents get pissed off at the coach and club and start advocating. In the rest of the world, if a player doesn't start a game, their parents get pissed off at THEM and ask why they didn't earn it in training. Playing time should be the hardest thing about the entire game for any club that says their focus is to develop players. When you can't support that as a club, then your club is actually just providing a competitive, fun place to play for kids. That is absolutely fine. It's what 95% of the clubs actually should be focused on. These DA and ECNL clubs all claim they're developing players. They're mostly not. They providing a more prestigious product and charging accordingly but they have no actual focus on outcomes achieved for their work after your DD leaves the club at 19. CCL 23 thing is actually a cool commitment those clubs make to their alum. It's a start. Too bad DA and ECNL clubs aren't required to do the same as part of membership, though some do field teams. If you really want your DD to develop, stop complaining about playing time when you know she's with a good coach who knows what they're doing and there's an end game. If you want her to feel good about herself all the time and start most games just enjoy the experience, stop driving 60 minutes each way to training. Support your closest decent club, play high school, and save money for college tuition. |
Anonymous
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I've already stated that across 4 age groups within the DMV there are not even 20 national team caliber players to even bother throwing together on a team. it isn't about "playing time". DA subbing rules very quickly make playing time a premium by not allowing players to get back into the game. Forget girls worrying about starting, they are fighting just to stay on the field because they understand there is no 4 minute rest and back in you go.
Your utopia of 20 DMV chosen ones simply isn't a realistic option due to basic logistics and actual talent. We are a HUUUUUGE nation. We simply need more kids playing and receiving the best coaching that they can get. Our US Soccer scouts might need a better eye for talent but the only way we catch the world is through a better understanding of the game and the talent that is actually important and through sheer numbers. The fact that we get so many kids wrong now should indicate that crowning 20 or so 13 year old girls or boys is just simply a dumb approach. What about the 30th kid? How far off are they to be told to go play in your local league and you are essentially done. I guess much of your point depends on your motive. You are either: 1. A parent of a kid in the "top 20" and you simply cant stand her playing with the unwashed, or 2. Your kid is left out and DA and the current ECNL expansion is taking talent from your currently amazing team that competes in State Cup. |
Anonymous
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PP here. The point here is that a top quality player can play on a quality team that is not DA or ECNL. You can't tell me that a girl who lives in Baltimore and whose parents refuse to commute to Bethesda for ECNL or pay $5,000 to the Spirit is going to be hurt by playing for Pipeline and plays against the top ECNL in 4+ showcases each year. UNC, Duke, and UVA will still see her. Sure ECNL and DA are great avenues to top soccer but they are not the only avenues.
DC has too many lemmings that are attracted to the image of being elite. Clubs know this which is why the sell people on this travel soccer at such a young age or elite travel soccer (DA and ECNL). Playing DA will get you access to USNWT coaches, as if a stud player on a non-DA team is not going to get noticed by the powers-that-be. I concede that at the older age categories -- U-15/u-16, probably has the very strong teams at the ECNL but that does not mean you can't reach top soccer playing for a non-ECNL or non-DA team. It might be harder but not impossible. |
Anonymous
So that puts you squarely as the second scenario. The problem is that the Duke coach already acknowledges that kids in ECNL and DA are good. The first stop on the recruiting train will be DA and ECNL showcases. DA and ECNL also have closed off showcases where a college coach can come and watch kids play with and against overall very high level kids. It is very easy for the Duke coach to project out how a player will look in college in this environment in this setting where overall player and team quality is high. Catching your kid's game at a random tourney against perhaps a ECNL team or more likely just a decent NPL or other regional league team is just not the same. Your kid's path is certainly harder to get noticed. Your kid will also need to attend college ID camps, which will also be attended by the same ECNL and DA kids. But then there is the other resume building you need to do like ODP. So if we are actually talking Duke or another Top D1 program, getting there without ECNL or DA is very long shot. If you combine the numbers of ECNL and DA alone you are talking almost 3000 players per age group. So for that size a typical DA or ECNL kid making a top D1 program is also a long shot, but it is somewhat narrowed. |
Anonymous
Is it a good idea to abolish the whole travel league thing say until the kids reach U16? |
Anonymous
no |
Anonymous
| The costs of these programs have been discussed, as well as the "prestige" of being "elite," the level of competition and training, the opportunity to be seen by D1 college scouts, and "pipeline" to the USNTs. Oh, and don't forget the occasional troll mentioning the your little Mia/Messi should go to Europe. As a relatively uneducated parent in NOVA soccer world, I have heard these stories of the next Pele being "discovered" in the alleys of the favelas and getting shipped off to a prestigious European club for training and glory, but how much would a typical European parent pay for their kids to be part of their "elite" clubs, and does our paying 1,000s to get the training as part of a feam drive our expectation as customers that my little Mia will get just as much play time as yours? |
Anonymous
Even Pulisic had to pay his own way when invited to Barcelona in his youth. This is part of the reason they decided Germany would be a better option. But, yes, even if we had a future Pele in this country it’s doubtful any of these idiots would know what to do with one or even identify one. This has been said about Pulisic as well, if he stayed in the US he would barely be getting minutes in the MLS. Play soccer for fun in this country. All of this elite expensive stuff isn’t turning your kid into a star and if you don’t have an EU passport definitely forget it. |
Anonymous
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Very good comparison, especially the factoids at the end of the blog:
http://www.soccerspew.com/elite-club-national-leagueecnl-vs-development-academyusda/ This is for the SW area where HS season is in winter. It is accurate on the costs up to 10K for ECNL or DA, that some on this thread have been bickering over. Just know both are very expensive relative to, e.g., average non-elite NCSL team in Div 1 where you are just looking to play and do a few travel tourneys even if your DC may be good enough to enter DA at U12 or U13. Anyway, thought it gave a good quick overview. |