Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Not the PP, but my kids who did not do SAT prep (too busy with many extracurriculars) attended colleges in the top 25 list and were accepted to many top schools with offers of substantial merit scholarships (not based on financial need, just the strength of their records).

SAT prep helps some kids, but once you're over 2100 or so, the colleges really don't care, so it can be a waste of time and money for kids who are getting those scores without prep. PSAT gives you an idea of where their scores will shake out without prep, so parents can make a good decision for their own families whether it's worth it or not.

To add on to this post, once an applicant has a high GPA with a rigorous course load and an SAT north of about 2100 (or ACT better than about 32), colleges start to look at what else the student was doing in high school. If a kid spends very little time on outside activities, or has a laundry list of the type of club that meets once a week or once a month, the admissions counselors start to think that he needed all his time to devote to his studies. Colleges want kids who can maintain a high GPA while being highly involved in one or two activities. Spending time on SAT prep just takes time away from activities that are far more worthwhile in terms of enhancing a child's all around education. Colleges are looking for students who add something to the campus; kids who only have time for studying don't have time to be involved in activities that serve to benefit the college as a whole.

In general, a child who is scoring in the 200s or higher on the PSAT as a ninth or tenth grader will be likely to score similarly or higher on the SAT without any outside intervention. Sometimes schools offer free practice testing. These can be worthwhile but watch out for the scoring: they tend to use harder questions so the kids get a lower score so parents will sign their kids up for SAT prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests.

Anonymous wrote:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

well Duh, isn't that the whole point?

Right, and the point of the quote is to show what is considered inappropriate in this context.

[Anonymous]

very few people score super high on magnet entrance tests and the like without a track record of preparation and hard work....simply ask Peyton and Chief Justice Roberts

preparation and hard work does not equal a 6-week or overnight test-prep course with stolen materials!!


Even a physical or mental jock knows this.

.... Matthew, an 8-year-old, to all the cheating, short cut taking, pill popping, face-lifting and tummy tucking silicon society afraid of a little sweat and tears

[Anonymous]

Well, good luck with the SAT next year. And I can assure you that while I sadly bow to selfishness and vanity on occasion, I am not lying. It bothered me too that my son didn't want to take a prep class like most kids seem to now. But he's stubborn, so there was little I could do. Fortunately, he was right in his assessments. As were his friends. As others on these forums have noted despite the lemming-like insistence that you have to prep for the SAT, I think if you're a certain kind of kid who would score on the higher end anyway, it really doesn't matter.

And no, I don't know where the 3 are going to college yet, as early decision aps are only due tomorrow.

Does it bother you that others prep for the SAT? If not, what's your point, if it bothered you your son "didn't want to take a prep class". I bet your son stole the College Board Blue Book/Barons/Princeton/ SAT on-line review to prep for the test but you like most of your lying and deceiving kind strategically left that course of action out of this discussion. Well, he may not have stolen the test material. He may have borrowed it from the public library or bought the guides online or from the bookstore. I am also sure you will deny those materials are not in your home and your children never prepped with the stolen or commercial review materials ? Go ahead, and humor us.

We know you can prep by taking practice SAT tests without taking a "prep class" as you conveniently write (Blue Book, enclosed practice test with registration packet, Princeton, Baron, MCPS and FCPS on-line SAT practise test reviews, etc, etc,).

Your son is well aware of the myriad of ways to prep. Perhaps Martians will believe your stories.

[Anonymous]

NP: I once was in the home of a mom who bragged her children did not prep for SAT or ACT but the worn and thick dog eared SAT review book I caught a glimpse of gave her secret away. As I left her home one evening I asked her why she and her husband, in their mid-40s, were taking practice SAT tests. Her facial expression was cut short in the silence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, good luck with the SAT next year. And I can assure you that while I sadly bow to selfishness and vanity on occasion, I am not lying. It bothered me too that my son didn't want to take a prep class like most kids seem to now. But he's stubborn, so there was little I could do. Fortunately, he was right in his assessments. As were his friends. As others on these forums have noted despite the lemming-like insistence that you have to prep for the SAT, I think if you're a certain kind of kid who would score on the higher end anyway, it really doesn't matter.

And no, I don't know where the 3 are going to college yet, as early decision aps are only due tomorrow.

Does it bother you that others prep for the SAT? If not, what's your point, if it bothered you your son "didn't want to take a prep class". I bet your son stole the College Board Blue Book/Barons/Princeton/ SAT on-line review to prep for the test but you like most of your lying and deceiving kind strategically left that course of action out of this discussion. Well, he may not have stolen the test material. He may have borrowed it from the public library or bought the guides online or from the bookstore. I am also sure you will deny those materials are not in your home and your children never prepped with the stolen or commercial review materials ? Go ahead, and humor us.

We know you can prep by taking practice SAT tests without taking a "prep class" as you conveniently write (Blue Book, enclosed practice test with registration packet, Princeton, Baron, MCPS and FCPS on-line SAT practise test reviews, etc, etc,).

Your son is well aware of the myriad of ways to prep. Perhaps Martians will believe your stories.[/quote]

I find it hard to believe any reasonably prudent person in their right mind would not at least take a look at the type of questions that are going to be asked on a test that will so greatly affect one's life.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Most mature students with their eye on university, the SAT or a job interview will generally prepare for impending engagements. That's been my experience over the years with scores of serious students. Those that don't usually deserve their fate.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Most mature students with their eye on university, the SAT or a job interview will generally prepare for impending engagements. That's been my experience over the years with scores of serious students. Those that don't usually deserve their fate.

Those few professed students, who do not prepare for engagements affecting their lives and livelihoods downstream (e.g., SAT, college), are generally the gifted sons and daughters of underemployed divorced parents surfing the DCUM boards.

[Anonymous]

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

I guess it's ok to "prepare" for CogAT if you do not use the "exact form" of the CogAT being administered by the meat heads at FCPS.

Fairfax County will budget for a CogAT goon squad to sweep the County looking for materials (physical and digital) resembling the "exact form" of the CogAT test. Teachers and parents throughout the County are finally pleased to learn this squad will screen the classrooms and homes for any teaching or mentoring which could be construed as "preparing" with "the exact form" of GocAT.

FCPS is also organizing a committee to define what prepare means in the classroom and educational context and to define the educational boundaries parents and teachers must not cross as applied to the CogAT test for AAP.

Students guilty of crossing the preparation threshold for GocAT will be expelled from FCPS and not allowed to reenter the system for 2 years. The FCPS superintendent is confident this approach will close the achievement gap between our County children.

So far, support for this new initiative from the Fairfax urban moms and dads is overwhelming. The teachers in the County are panicking because of uncertainty of what to strip from their existing bare bone elementary curriculum to be in compliance.

The CEO of Aristotle is skipping all the way to the bank at the prospect of the new emerging black market sure to triple the cost for her services in future.

[Anonymous]

I find it hard to believe any reasonably prudent person in their right mind would not at least take a look at the type of questions that are going to be asked on a test that will so greatly affect one's life.

Here is where the confusion lies. The SAT just does not have that huge effect on a person's life in the U.S. It is only one of many aspects of a college application, and not by any means considered the single most important one. Many schools have made SAT/ACT scores an optional part of the application package. Lots of schools don't even require the applicant to send in their scores.
Colleges are looking at lots of factors: GPA, rigorousness of curriculum, involvement in extracurricular activities, essays, and sometimes interviews. Test scores are only one part of the picture and in no way are they determinative of anyone's future. Go to college admissions sessions and one will hear that SAT/ACT scores are not the sole factor in any student's acceptance or denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

I guess it's ok to "prepare" for CogAT if you do not use the "exact form" of the CogAT being administered by the meat heads at FCPS.

Fairfax County will budget for a CogAT goon squad to sweep the County looking for materials (physical and digital) resembling the "exact form" of the CogAT test. Teachers and parents throughout the County are finally pleased to learn this squad will screen the classrooms and homes for any teaching or mentoring which could be construed as "preparing" with "the exact form" of GocAT.

FCPS is also organizing a committee to define what prepare means in the classroom and educational context and to define the educational boundaries parents and teachers must not cross as applied to the CogAT test for AAP.

Students guilty of crossing the preparation threshold for GocAT will be expelled from FCPS and not allowed to reenter the system for 2 years. The FCPS superintendent is confident this approach will close the achievement gap between our County children.

So far, support for this new initiative from the Fairfax urban moms and dads is overwhelming. The teachers in the County are panicking because of uncertainty of what to strip from their existing bare bone elementary curriculum to be in compliance.

The CEO of Aristotle is skipping all the way to the bank at the prospect of the new emerging black market sure to triple the cost for her services in future.

You know, no one is required to live in Fairfax County. If you dislike their policies so much and feel such a high degree of paranoia about them, there are many other very nice places to live around here, many of which are less expensive than Fairfax. You clearly have nothing but contempt and disdain for the school system, its policies, and its employees. It's called "voting with your feet" and you can let FCPS know how you feel about them by moving to a nearby county.

Why exactly do you care so much about a test for first and second graders? You don't have to let it affect you. If you have children that age or younger, you can move to a school system you like better. If you don't have young children, it has no effect on you, so why write these odd posts about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I find it hard to believe any reasonably prudent person in their right mind would not at least take a look at the type of questions that are going to be asked on a test that will so greatly affect one's life.

Here is where the confusion lies. The SAT just does not have that huge effect on a person's life in the U.S. It is only one of many aspects of a college application, and not by any means considered the single most important one. Many schools have made SAT/ACT scores an optional part of the application package. Lots of schools don't even require the applicant to send in their scores.
Colleges are looking at lots of factors: GPA, rigorousness of curriculum, involvement in extracurricular activities, essays, and sometimes interviews. Test scores are only one part of the picture and in no way are they determinative of anyone's future. Go to college admissions sessions and one will hear that SAT/ACT scores are not the sole factor in any student's acceptance or denial.

sorry but this is misleading as hell. So many good posts on these various threads about college admission and they all agree the GPA and SAT are the main criteria. You need those two to make the cut for further consideration at most competitive schools. After that, the other things you mention come into play. But of you fuck up your SAT it will limit your college admissions options and, yes, your life will be affected. Is it a death knell? No, but it will affect your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I find it hard to believe any reasonably prudent person in their right mind would not at least take a look at the type of questions that are going to be asked on a test that will so greatly affect one's life.

Here is where the confusion lies. The SAT just does not have that huge effect on a person's life in the U.S. It is only one of many aspects of a college application, and not by any means considered the single most important one. Many schools have made SAT/ACT scores an optional part of the application package. Lots of schools don't even require the applicant to send in their scores.
Colleges are looking at lots of factors: GPA, rigorousness of curriculum, involvement in extracurricular activities, essays, and sometimes interviews. Test scores are only one part of the picture and in no way are they determinative of anyone's future. Go to college admissions sessions and one will hear that SAT/ACT scores are not the sole factor in any student's acceptance or denial.

sorry but this is misleading as hell. So many good posts on these various threads about college admission and they all agree the GPA and SAT are the main criteria. You need those two to make the cut for further consideration at most competitive schools. After that, the other things you mention come into play. But of you fuck up your SAT it will limit your college admissions options and, yes, your life will be affected. Is it a death knell? No, but it will affect your life.

if

[Anonymous]

Here is where the confusion lies. The SAT just does not have that huge effect on a person's life in the U.S. It is only one of many aspects of a college application, and not by any means considered the single most important one. Many schools have made SAT/ACT scores an optional part of the application package. Lots of schools don't even require the applicant to send in their scores.
Colleges are looking at lots of factors: GPA, rigorousness of curriculum, involvement in extracurricular activities, essays, and sometimes interviews. Test scores are only one part of the picture and in no way are they determinative of anyone's future. Go to college admissions sessions and one will hear that SAT/ACT scores are not the sole factor in any student's acceptance or denial.

I guess that explains why so many students take these exams so many times and it represents a billion dollar industry to the College Board and ACT organizations. I'll take your advice and tell my rising high schoolers not to worry about it. It's the unimportant small part of the picture (like GoCAT for AAP, SSAT for private school (Big 3) , MCAT for medical school, LSAT for law school, and GMAT for business school.

The US News and World Report every year publishes the median SAT scores for their matriculants. For at least many of the leading institutions throughout the land (Ivies, MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech, LACs and so forth) the mean scores are north of 700 (on a 800 scale). If you are a student applying today to some of these schools (assuming you have top grades and fine recommendations and deep extracurricular activities) will you leave to chance the SAT knowing how your competition is performing? There is a reason why testing is a billion dollar industry. Smart kids will not take your advice regarding not sweeping clean re: SAT/ACT. Colleges recognize the testing monopoly and what it has created but they haven't quite banned it from consideration in the admission process. Guess what, I'll advise my kids to aim to hit the SAT out of the park. The 12 year-old is well en route with 700 on Math for the Duke TIP talent search (you will surprised to learn that there are well over 1000 twelve year-olds capable of this (no sweat) looking at the yearly performances on the various talent searches around the country (CTY, NMATS etc). Do not leave it the chance until the schools completely do away with it. My kids recognise the test score is intrinsically unimportant and meaningless but that's not the issue. If you are not a legacy, rich , or the chosen one you had better take care of what you have control over...certainly in America given its longstanding history on the educational front for certain people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Here is where the confusion lies. The SAT just does not have that huge effect on a person's life in the U.S. It is only one of many aspects of a college application, and not by any means considered the single most important one. Many schools have made SAT/ACT scores an optional part of the application package. Lots of schools don't even require the applicant to send in their scores.
Colleges are looking at lots of factors: GPA, rigorousness of curriculum, involvement in extracurricular activities, essays, and sometimes interviews. Test scores are only one part of the picture and in no way are they determinative of anyone's future. Go to college admissions sessions and one will hear that SAT/ACT scores are not the sole factor in any student's acceptance or denial.

I guess that explains why so many students take these exams so many times and it represents a billion dollar industry to the College Board and ACT organizations. I'll take your advice and tell my rising high schoolers not to worry about it. It's the unimportant small part of the picture (like GoCAT for AAP, SSAT for private school (Big 3) , MCAT for medical school, LSAT for law school, and GMAT for business school.

The US News and World Report every year publishes the median SAT scores for their matriculants. For at least many of the leading institutions throughout the land (Ivies, MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech, LACs and so forth) the mean scores are north of 700 (on a 800 scale). If you are a student applying today to some of these schools (assuming you have top grades and fine recommendations and deep extracurricular activities) will you leave to chance the SAT knowing how your competition is performing? There is a reason why testing is a billion dollar industry. Smart kids will not take your advice regarding not sweeping clean re: SAT/ACT. Colleges recognize the testing monopoly and what it has created but they haven't quite banned it from consideration in the admission process. Guess what, I'll advise my kids to aim to hit the SAT out of the park. The 12 year-old is well en route with 700 on Math for the Duke TIP talent search (you will surprised to learn that there are well over 1000 twelve year-olds capable of this (no sweat) looking at the yearly performances on the various talent searches around the country (CTY, NMATS etc). Do not leave it the chance until the schools completely do away with it. My kids recognise the test score is intrinsically unimportant and meaningless but that's not the issue. If you are not a legacy, rich , or the chosen one you had better take care of what you have control over...certainly in America given its longstanding history on the educational front for certain people.

I say exactly the same to my kids. Look, this isn't the world I would have created but it is what it is. Colleges take this shit seriously so you should to.