I'm Jewish. Ask me anything.
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Anonymous
| And of course, atheist jewish people aren't the only exclusionary group in the US. But they are the ones I least understand despite having been surrounded by atheist jews all through life. Other than their common bond because of the holocaust., I've never been given a reason for their exclusiveness. |
Anonymous
| To the pp who stated that they did not know of neighborhoods that excluded Jews...really? There were entire TOWNS that did not allow Jews to buy property up until the 50s. Chevy Chase...west of Beach drive in west DC and in MD Jews and blacks were not allowed...that is why they built up Colonial Village and Shepherd Park. Kennilworth, IL also did not allow Jews for decades. Those are two off of the top of my head. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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As far as I can tell, you have hijacked this thread by becoming the new OP. Please answer the question on why they still have such a strong bond if they're atheist? Since you needed proof of the percentage, below is are some articles for your reading pleasure. This quote sums up what I see among jewish friends I've known MY ENTIRE LIFE.
"They go because they want some kind of ethnic identity," Magid said. "They don't care about the prayers. It allows them to feel a sense of Jewishness, but has little to do with religion." http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsdontbelieve/ http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/new-poll-shows-atheism-on-rise-with-jews-found-to-be-least-religious-1.459477 http://davidduke.com/another-duke-podcast-today-zionism-is-simply-the-latest-expression-of-judaism/ http://tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/154532/david-silverman-atheist http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-09-26/jew-atheist-god/50553958/1 |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
Even assuming those percentages to be true -- what's the difference? Does every Christian sitting in church believe 100% in the church's teachings? You also have (as the writers of some of those articles had) a bit of a misconception about the purpose of Jewish prayer and Jewish attendance in synagogue. Unlike Christianity, Judaism does not mandate religious attendance except for certain holidays. Most Jewish religious practices take place in the home, such as keeping kosher, observing the Sabbath, wearing special clothing, etc. There are Orthodox Jews (mostly women) who rarely step foot in a synagogue, and no one thinks the worse of them. It is not a requirement to attend weekly or even monthly, although of course there are many people who want to do so. I would also disagree that saying prayers has little to do with religion. No one who is truly atheist would bother going or saying the prayers. They would feel uncomfortable, just as I would feel uncomfortable reciting the Lord's Prayer when I am not Christian. But it's true that many Jews who go to synagogue probably don't believe 100% in what they are reciting. It is ritual and comfort because they grew up with it, and their parents grew up with it, and their grandparents, etc. Let me compare it to Thanksgiving. Does every American sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner pause to remember the Pilgrims? I doubt it. It's evolved -- many people say what they are thankful for in their modern lives. Some people don't say anything and just sit down to a turkey dinner. But it is still a shared cultural experience, and would feel odd to most people to miss it. Or take Christmas as another example. There are many non-religious people who celebrate Christmas. There are threads on DCUM every year arguing that Christmas is a secular holiday. Should people who don't go to church on Christmas be banned from celebrating it in a different way, with a tree or presents or whatever? I am not sure why you feel such hostility to Jews, but I suggest you do some hard thinking about why you may judge them differently from other groups and why you are so hung up on their religious or cultural practices. |
Anonymous
You are not even reading what I wrote at this point. I don't judge them more harshly than other groups that are exclusive. This is an AMA forum about being jewish. I just believe a lot of jews are shallowly joining behind their heritage and over the years I've lost respect for their clannish behavior. On the prayers I said that I felt uncomfortable about someone being so open in a public space with their religion but at least I understood them a bit after getting to know them and seeing how fervently they believed in their religion. You say you were mistreated by Christians and Catholics. Do you have any examples? As some examples on my behalf, I grew up where the jewish kids would take some of my more open jewish friends away to tell them secrets, none of which had anything to do with jewish religion or culture. They would talk about which families their parents preferred, which jewish boy they wanted to marry, they would comment how none of the jewish boys were open to me because I wasn't jewish. Up to 3rd grade some of them brought in matzoh, but then that ended and most didn't celebrate any holidays. They said this, not me. Even in their houses such as for passover. I thought perhaps this was just the way the kids were in my town, but then I went off to a highly selective college and during the first year there was a sorority rush. There were two known jewish sororities in addition to many sororities that were about half jewish, one with a reputation of having many jewish American princesses and one with more devout and nicer jews. I had gotten to know some of the nicer jewish people in the 2nd sorority. I went into rush believing I probably would not be picked for either sorority, but thought perhaps I could get to know these nicer jews better and could possibly enjoy being in that sorority. They each had pledge classes of 40 women plus. At the first sorority, I was immediately asked my name, where I lived, and my major. The person made a face at me and then took me around to about ten other people introducing me with just that information over and over in a derogatory way. No one asked me any other questions and eventually the person I was with moved on to talk to someone else leaving me alone. At the nicer sorority I was in a group of 3 sisters and 3 pledges and the 3 sisters asked the other two jewish pledges questions and basically ignored me although they were nice and offered me food. I don't think in these cases, I was being the antisemetic one. They were being antichristian. The saddest part was that they had the power to reject me anyway, but used their 15 minutes to make me feel uncomfortable instead of at least trying to be friendly. |
Anonymous
| Lest I confuse you further, these were not proclaimed jewish sororities. They just didn't let anyone in who wasn't jewish and usually they even excluded jews who lived in places like VA. |
Anonymous
Why does it matter to you whether Jews bond with each other over the actual religion or not? People are free to bond with others because they feel compatible. Because their world view is similar. Because the way they grew up is similar...Shul or no Shul, eating Jewish foods, not celebrating Christmas and feeling left out of a Christian society, a sense of shared history. Also because...guess what? Jews make up 2% of the US population and 0.02% of the world population. Maybe, just maybe, Jews feel some safety in numbers. |
Anonymous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk You will probably never undestand ethnic Judaism, and I don't think those of us here answering questions in a religious forum can really speak for ethnic Jews who are atheists anyway. But your level of obsession is odd. Indeed, if you had such negative experiences with "clannishness" why did you rush a mostly Jewish sorority (by the way my dad belonged to a Jewish frat, but that was back when most non-Jewish frats excluded Jews, and he was not an atheist, though not particularly pious either) |
Anonymous
| Why does it bother me that they're exclusive to other people? Do you realize how absurd that comment is coming from a group that complains it's been excluded for centuries? I don't care about bonding - you can bond with others about vegetarian foods, but when you start to exclude people on a regular basis for areas of life that are not related to whatever the bond revolves around, you are acting in an exclusive behavior. About 12% of Montgomery County residents are jewish and where I grew up it was 14% for the county. Certain areas in Montgomery County and the town I grew up in are significantly higher. In these areas, it's not a small population where there's only one other girl or boy in a class with the same cultural roots. Muslims make up a lesser percentage of the US. Should they just live clannishly as well? Should we exclude them in return? The US was also mean to many immigrant cultures, in particular Asian Americans and American Indians. Should they be exclusive to others too? If the US is a salad bowl instead of a melting pot, what is the benefit of having all these cultures together? Do we share and learn from other cultures or just keep our culture exclusive to ourselves and shun other people who are not like us? |
Anonymous
You had to visit all of the sororities to start and then they would cut you. That's how it worked. Being that they had the upper hand, it was appalling that they couldn't even be civil for 15 minutes especially considering they were talking to women who were attending the same college as they were and would be possibly in similar classes. |
Anonymous
You are right I don't understand ethnic Judaism which is why I posed the question. I have tried all my life even taking jewish classes in school however and still have many jewish friends. I just think they're a bit shallow in this regard. The OP said she wasn't religious, so I don't know why I was being so out of line. No one has given me any reason for understanding ethnic jews who aren't religious which was my only question to begin with. |
Anonymous
I think people have tried to give you lots of ideas and information, but have met with an argumentative, accusatory, hostile, and aggrieved tone. That is not conducive to learning. Nor to getting along with people, whether "clannish" or not. |