I'm Jewish. Ask me anything.

[Anonymous]

Oh and just found an article that is in refute of Silverman. What does he say is the primary bond between non-believing jews? Their belief in continuing to identify as jewish as a matter of pride and continuity which is exactly what Silverman's mom was referring to when she said they needed to attend Temple so that Hitler doesn't win. So now on both sides of the issue of whether jews can be athiests, people admit that their fear of being oppressed in some way as a jew is the driving force for keeping them identifying as jewish and supporting other jews. Not any particular value most jews hold or cultural aspect a majority adheres to. Of course, when you are driven by fear, you will act irrationally and will not be open to outsider's friendships.

It will take some time for me to cull all the derogatory names you've called me over the past two days, but I'll try to post those as well in hopes of showing you how much you've been unwilling to consider my viewpoints. As for the names I've given to you? There have been none at least that haven't been in retaliation for your accusations to me.

Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/12/19/dave-silverman-is-wrong-you-can-be-non-religious-and-jewish/

"Though Silverman is welcome to opt out of identifying with that particular family, the fact remains that it exists — and that it has evolved to be much more than just a religion.
How?
I hesitate on this next part, because I know it’s a common belief, if often unspoken, that today’s Jews refer too frequently to our history as victims and the oppressed. (In fact, I’ve seen it said in the comments on this very site!) Still, there’s no denying that the proliferation of anti-Semitism, both then and now, offers a compelling reason, in part, for many of today’s Jews to continue identifying as Jewish, as a matter of pride and continuity."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the pp from Va. I am not religious. I was also pointing out mostly , by example, that not all Jews exclusively hang out with Jews. I did not hijack the thread, but rather came forth into a thread that had new questions for the first time in years.

Why do you think you have to point out to someone over and over even calling names such as antisemetic and reporting posts offensive just to get across that "not all........do .......? Any educated person does not wholly assume that all people of a certain group act the same way. But if the pp is saying that even she was rejected for not acting jewish enough even at a temple, you should be able to believe that it's possible for MANY, not all, jews to practice exclusivity towards non jews. This happens especially when people feel they have a comfortable number of jews around them such as at the temple this woman attended or the school or college I attended. Not in VA where there are no majority jewish neighborhoods to speak of. I know there are some enclaves that jews tend to congregate in VA, but those neighborhoods still aren't anywhere close to being a majority jewish.

To the PP who was understanding. I am actually in awe that they do have such a strong adherence to the culture despite not believing in jeudaism. Most Christians who phone it in at their church, don't really associate much with religious people of that denomination, and those that give up a church entirely often seem very much against the community they once belonged to. I was hoping to get a feel for what drove these people to have such loyalty to other jews, but I guess I'll just have to believe that they're doing it in retaliation for Hitler thinking they are all one race since I've been given no other valid explanation.

What?!! OK. You go ahead and think that. I see plenty of Catholics and other Christians acting exclusively. I spend my entire childhood being treated like an outsider because I was Jewish. This is not something unique to Jews to want to hang out with people they have something in common with. I love hanging out with Jews, but I don't exclude people based on their religion. The reason I think these posts complaining about Jews hanging together to the exclusion of others in "clans" is a very good example of hatred of Jews is because this happens every day with other religions. And the fact is, there are a lot more people in the world who are not Jewish, and there are a lot more people excluding Jews than there are Jews excluding non-Jews. So don't come here and say you aren't a Jew hater when you spew nonsense that Jews are "clannish" and that since Einstein said atheism doesn't comport with Judaism that atheists are fake Jews or whatever crap you posters are spewing about Jews. You hate Jews. It doesn't matter what happens. Jews are the scapegoats for every form of bad behavior. This thread is evidence of that. What a bunch of ignorant fools. Don't come to close to me, my Jewish horns might gore you!

Now you're resorting to threats? You'd think if you were such an outsider growing up you might have more sympathy for others who've been discriminated against. Based on your reaction I'm guessing you're making it up. Most people who've experience discrimination are understanding when it happens to other people even if the other people aren't just like them. Such as jews are supposed to be understanding of other people's discrimination having gone through it so much themselves? You've posted twice now about how much of an outsider you were growing up but never gave one example nor have you ever discussed why you love hanging out with jews and what makes that bond so special. Please elaborate as that was my first and only question.

Of course there are more people excluding jews than jews excluding others. There are more people in the world who aren't jewish. That says nothing about the percentage of jews who act this way. This clannish behavior can even be seen in Israel where people live on a kibbutz. It's not made up as you seem to believe and people aren't out to get jews when they talk about it. Silverman seems to get a bye in your world saying atheist jews aren't jews because he's jewish? Is he anti-semetic too? I'd take your issue up with him if you're that worked up over it. He seems to have more power to influence jews beyond a DC internet message board. You're the one who asked me to post the links because you questioned me of lying about the 50-60 percentage. A simple google search would have brought the same answer. There were more links that came up. I knew nothing of Silverman's or Einstein's views towards atheist jews before. No other religion in the world has 60% of people identifying as both a religious group and as an atheist.

The whole rest of your spew is just ridiculous and adds further name calling. You go ahead and think you're the scapegoat for everything, but until jews actually walk the walk of being more open to other friendships like some of the jews who've posted here actually do, people will continue to feel excluded from jewish groups. The whole fact that you never even gave any recognition to how discriminatory that particular college sponsored sorority was just makes me realize that you always see yourself as the victim and never the offender. To the other pp, sororities are not supposed to be discriminatory because of race and a host of other reasons which I've already posted. Those laws have been in effect at least in most colleges for decades. Gender is the only thing they can be discriminatory toward if they provide housing. They have to sign a letter every year stating that they will be open to considering all college students and there is a PanHellenic council that oversees this. I didn't check the dates of OP's post to realize that this forum was old and that I'd never hear back from the OP, but you knew this and instead of just telling me I wouldn't hear back, went on to pretend that you were the OP and spewed further name calling even when you had nothing to add with your responses.

You are sick.

Wow what an intelligent comment. Is that the best you can do? Yet another name calling to add to the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the pp from Va. I am not religious. I was also pointing out mostly , by example, that not all Jews exclusively hang out with Jews. I did not hijack the thread, but rather came forth into a thread that had new questions for the first time in years.

Why do you think you have to point out to someone over and over even calling names such as antisemetic and reporting posts offensive just to get across that "not all........do .......? Any educated person does not wholly assume that all people of a certain group act the same way. But if the pp is saying that even she was rejected for not acting jewish enough even at a temple, you should be able to believe that it's possible for MANY, not all, jews to practice exclusivity towards non jews. This happens especially when people feel they have a comfortable number of jews around them such as at the temple this woman attended or the school or college I attended. Not in VA where there are no majority jewish neighborhoods to speak of. I know there are some enclaves that jews tend to congregate in VA, but those neighborhoods still aren't anywhere close to being a majority jewish.

To the PP who was understanding. I am actually in awe that they do have such a strong adherence to the culture despite not believing in jeudaism. Most Christians who phone it in at their church, don't really associate much with religious people of that denomination, and those that give up a church entirely often seem very much against the community they once belonged to. I was hoping to get a feel for what drove these people to have such loyalty to other jews, but I guess I'll just have to believe that they're doing it in retaliation for Hitler thinking they are all one race since I've been given no other valid explanation.

What?!! OK. You go ahead and think that. I see plenty of Catholics and other Christians acting exclusively. I spend my entire childhood being treated like an outsider because I was Jewish. This is not something unique to Jews to want to hang out with people they have something in common with. I love hanging out with Jews, but I don't exclude people based on their religion. The reason I think these posts complaining about Jews hanging together to the exclusion of others in "clans" is a very good example of hatred of Jews is because this happens every day with other religions. And the fact is, there are a lot more people in the world who are not Jewish, and there are a lot more people excluding Jews than there are Jews excluding non-Jews. So don't come here and say you aren't a Jew hater when you spew nonsense that Jews are "clannish" and that since Einstein said atheism doesn't comport with Judaism that atheists are fake Jews or whatever crap you posters are spewing about Jews. You hate Jews. It doesn't matter what happens. Jews are the scapegoats for every form of bad behavior. This thread is evidence of that. What a bunch of ignorant fools. Don't come to close to me, my Jewish horns might gore you!

The following link is one person's life growing up jewish in the Klan part of america.

http://davidsalzberg.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-life-in-1975.html

[Anonymous]

PP here. I want to make one thing clear. that is my Blog. (I am identifying myself on this anonymous forum). That is also why I take offense to the broad stroking indictments of any group. If you change the word Jew to Black, the previous posts would be extremely racist.

[Anonymous]

NP here. Maybe I can help clarify: Jews are both a religion and an ethnic group. When I introduce friends who are Indian or Greek, they often have a bond even when first meeting, just because they come from similar upbringings and culture, even if they were raised in America. I don't know why people feel that this same fact among Jews is something to criticize.

I think it's a blessing that our culture brings us strength. I am a religious Jew who isn't particularly "culturally Jewish" but I dont have any hatred for those who are, and I'm glad it brings them pride for their heritage.

Rude people are obviously unfortunate, but I'm not sure anyone expects inclusiveness our of sorority sisters! Please stop and reflect on why Jewish cohesion bothers you so much and why you can't accept that our history and culture has made us a strong ethnic group along with our religion (and despite the fact that we don't all look ethnically similar) and that that's a good and important thing for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Maybe I can help clarify: Jews are both a religion and an ethnic group. When I introduce friends who are Indian or Greek, they often have a bond even when first meeting, just because they come from similar upbringings and culture, even if they were raised in America. I don't know why people feel that this same fact among Jews is something to criticize.

I think it's a blessing that our culture brings us strength. I am a religious Jew who isn't particularly "culturally Jewish" but I dont have any hatred for those who are, and I'm glad it brings them pride for their heritage.

Rude people are obviously unfortunate, but I'm not sure anyone expects inclusiveness our of sorority sisters! Please stop and reflect on why Jewish cohesion bothers you so much and why you can't accept that our history and culture has made us a strong ethnic group along with our religion (and despite the fact that we don't all look ethnically similar) and that that's a good and important thing for us.

While ethnic people can be proud of their heritage, it's another thing for them to want to only associate with their culture in this country. I would feel an Asian who won't befriend anyone else outside of their culture as also acting exclusionary. What I guess I have more respect for though is if the Asian is actually participating in a lot of Asian culture. I was not seeing much participation among my jewish friends other than discussing potential anti-Semitism or something like that. Few cooked ethnic meals, observed holidays even at home, or believed in god. Despite their lack of cultural and religious activities, I've seen the jew bond is very strong and I was wondering why.

You mistakenly assume that I was talking about sorority sisters being completely open to everyone being included in their sisterhood. Maybe you have no experience with sororities, but as noted previously, jews, blacks, etc. were excluded from some sororities in many years past. I don't know the entire history of how things came about, but complaints must have been brought up and colleges started requesting these groups form a PanHellenic council that would make sure no one was discriminated against and have them all work together toward a greater cause for the college. There were actually events throughout the year where sororities worked together on a project for the college. The way our week of rush worked is that the first day, everyone visited all the sororities and this whole program was led by the PanHellenic council, which included sisters from all the sororities although they couldn't reveal which sorority they were from, and they talked in depth about the fact that the people rushing and the sororities should not be discriminatory and keep an open mind. Most sororities had more people requesting to be invited than they had room for, so the first day was really a day where the sorority was putting on a show for many people about why their sorority was special and worthy of college recognition. I think we had over 10 sororities each being able to take in about 30-40 women so there were probably 300-400 women coming through their doors. That's why the actions of those women was so egregious. They were intentionally going against the entire purpose of the PanHellenic council. The last day, the sorority invited only people who they were open to having be sisters, so at that time they could be extremely picky, but not on the first day. Obviously I was not invited back even on the 2nd of 5-6 days.

And someone asked a question of whether I knew whether jews were being discriminatory. Many jews were not discriminatory and would even agree that a particular jew or group of jews were being discriminatory, but would kind of say it as if that's the way things are and that I should just deal with it. And other times, it was the reaction of someone I didn't even know treating me badly or ignoring me the minute they met me and learned my Christian name. I don't go around thinking all jews are discriminatory the minute someone disagrees with me or ignores me especially if they don't do this all the time. And I have no hatred of jews. That's someone's interpretation on this board.

[Anonymous]

To this blog owner. I'm very sorry you had to go through this. It sounds terrible. Obviously the people you encountered were extremely racist. Not just towards jews but toward anyone who was not like them including blacks. Do you really think that a person like myself who attended school with half jews and then went on to college that had 1/3 jews and joined a sorority of half jews is going to be as racist as the people you described? How would I even live my life? I've mentioned several times that I still have many friends who are jewish and so far have not called you a name despite being hurled accusations. Also, at the end you seem to suggest that because the school isn't diverse, it's probably this school is still racist. So you are judging whether a school is racist or not by how diverse the school is and saying that since there are so many whites, it's probable that they will be discriminatory. Can you not imagine the reverse where there is a school of mostly jew, black, Asian, or Spanish where the majority picks on the minority? Are these groups not able to be discriminatory? Of course they can be. That is all I'm saying happened to me and because I didn't see a strong tie between these people I was wondering why they were so hung up on being together all the time.

http://davidsalzberg.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-life-in-1975.html

[Anonymous]

And to the VA person who keeps spewing hate comments, other than the comment on the fact that atheist jews are not chosen because there's no one to choose them, I've found your comments to be extremely against the entire purpose of this thread. If you check the other threads, people have agreed with this assumption too. They think you were in the wrong to ask to lock the thread and didn't think anything was out of line. Out of your request I researched and found that several jews think the main bond between them is their work against anti-Semitism. This is an interesting concept and one that should be allowed to be discussed on an AMA forum.

[Anonymous]

I actually think there was one person rushing who refused to visit or didn't visit all the sororities and she was not allowed to continue with rush. That's how important the group felt about their mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
While ethnic people can be proud of their heritage, it's another thing for them to want to only associate with their culture in this country. I would feel an Asian who won't befriend anyone else outside of their culture as also acting exclusionary. What I guess I have more respect for though is if the Asian is actually participating in a lot of Asian culture..

I am not Asian. Ergo, it is not up to me to judge Asians for whom they choose to befriend, or not befriend, and if their level of participation in their culture is clannish or not.

The USA is barely 2% Jewish. Most of those Jews are either A. religious or otherwise participating deeply in Jewish culture. Or B. Quite willing to befriend nonJews. The number of people in the USA who are Jewish, are atheist and not deeply culturally Jewish, and who do not make non-Jewish freinds is probably less than 1/2 a percent of the whole population. There are plenty of people left for you to be friends with. I do not understand why you are making such a big deal about this. It strikes me as creepy, and either a sign of some other problem you have, or a cover for an agenda of some sort.

You have taken what I think was meant to be a thread to answer a range of different questions about all kinds of details of Jewish life, and turned it into a long debate about your personal experience. I do not think that was the intent, or is desirable.

[Anonymous]

It was not my intent either, but you kept coming back at me with accusations and slander so I had to defend myself before asking the question again which I still feel you just gave lip service to. Basically I heard "we have a long cultural history which is enough to warrant segregation if some jews so want so what's it to you if we decide to exclude others". Your responses were not in the spirit of an AMA forum. No AMA forum I've seen has thrown insults at the people who've asked questions. At this point I do agree the forum should be locked. Not because of anything outrageous that's been asked, but because you have no intention of answering anything thoughtful about jews or judaism and the OP seems to be long gone.

It is interesting though that while writing, it brought me back to the memory that the year of rush was also right after the Crown Heights incident in NY which was definitely talked about on campus. There was quite a bit of animosity among jews and blacks who didn't have much relation to the actual incident and there was exclusion on both sides for little reason as well. I looked up the Crown Heights incident and found that animosity still exists except that it's not noticed as much anymore because the people who lived there are gradually moving away as more hipsters move in. Their main complaint on either side was that the other group didn't seem to trust them or interact with them. So sad, that even after all those years, those two groups couldn't become more amicable. While people can live exclusive lives legally in most aspects, I think it creates a feeling of uneasiness and it is not the type of neighborhood I want my children growing up in. Hopefully parents will allow their children to have an open mind when making friends in this next generation.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/crown-heights-twenty-years-after-the-riots
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/realestate/crown-heights-brooklyn-gets-its-turn.html?_r=0

[Anonymous]

"It strikes me as creepy, and either a sign of some other problem you have, or a cover for an agenda of some sort."

I guess I should defend this accusation as well. I've been writing on this forum for all of two days and asked one question and then a follow up question. I have no cover for an agenda or sign of some other problem. Possibly David Salzberg in writing his blog for everyone to see has a sign of some other problem or an agenda. Asking questions in an AMA forum is hardly creepy and if it's so creepy, you shouldn't even be here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"It strikes me as creepy, and either a sign of some other problem you have, or a cover for an agenda of some sort."

I guess I should defend this accusation as well. I've been writing on this forum for all of two days and asked one question and then a follow up question. I have no cover for an agenda or sign of some other problem. Possibly David Salzberg in writing his blog for everyone to see has a sign of some other problem or an agenda. Asking questions in an AMA forum is hardly creepy and if it's so creepy, you shouldn't even be here.

My only comment was the you started with a broad brush that all jews are insular (my words, not yours). I respond by strongly disagreeing with your premise. For the most part, Jews are not self-isolating. Jewish people do tend to live around other jewish people, just like Italians tend to live near other people of similar descent (ever hear of little Italy).

Now, the reason why jews tend to congregate together is not because we discriminate, but rather 1) we were not allowed to live anywhere until relatively recently, 2) there needs to be a critical mass of jewish people to get things like Matzo for Passover. Furthermore, observant jews (which is the proper word) require at least ten people to pray -- a minion.

But, I do not know anyone (outside of the orthodox community) that limits interactions or friends to jews. There is really no difference in how jews interact with other jews vs. non-jews than, say, Koreans, Indians, AA, Italians, Irish, etc. That was my point.

You came in and tried to isolate jews by making accusations. That is where the antisemitism accusation came in. And multiple posters pointed that out. I am just one of many. You might be surprised to find out how many people you associate with that are jewish.

[Anonymous]

One other comment: the reason why you are heading so many different positions is that Judaism encourages people to question things. Including what it means to be jewish.

There is a joke: once you get 10 people in a town, you have a Shul...once you have 20, there are two shuls. Because everyone has there own idea as to what it means to be jewish.

I do not believe in a personal god, but I do believe in physics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It strikes me as creepy, and either a sign of some other problem you have, or a cover for an agenda of some sort."

I guess I should defend this accusation as well. I've been writing on this forum for all of two days and asked one question and then a follow up question. I have no cover for an agenda or sign of some other problem. Possibly David Salzberg in writing his blog for everyone to see has a sign of some other problem or an agenda. Asking questions in an AMA forum is hardly creepy and if it's so creepy, you shouldn't even be here.

My only comment was the you started with a broad brush that all jews are insular (my words, not yours). I respond by strongly disagreeing with your premise. For the most part, Jews are not self-isolating. Jewish people do tend to live around other jewish people, just like Italians tend to live near other people of similar descent (ever hear of little Italy).

Now, the reason why jews tend to congregate together is not because we discriminate, but rather 1) we were not allowed to live anywhere until relatively recently, 2) there needs to be a critical mass of jewish people to get things like Matzo for Passover. Furthermore, observant jews (which is the proper word) require at least ten people to pray -- a minion.

But, I do not know anyone (outside of the orthodox community) that limits interactions or friends to jews. There is really no difference in how jews interact with other jews vs. non-jews than, say, Koreans, Indians, AA, Italians, Irish, etc. That was my point.

You came in and tried to isolate jews by making accusations. That is where the antisemitism accusation came in. And multiple posters pointed that out. I am just one of many. You might be surprised to find out how many people you associate with that are jewish.


My only comment was.... you've made many comments almost all of which have been accusations and derogatory names. What was that one about how you were going to come after me with your horns? There were even threats. How can you say "my only comment was" when you were even given threats across an internet board? From the beginning you judged me as an anti-Semitic unnecessarily. I don't think in your eyes you ever viewed me as anything other than an anti-semite even from the beginning. I certainly did not start out with a broad brush that all jews are insular. They are not nor did I say they were. As someone said, jews are everywhere. I've repeated many times that I still have many jewish friends, some of which I consider very close friends who I even travel to visit. I said I've met several groups jews who've acted insular in the past and don't believe in god nor do they do much in the way of observing their culture so I wondered what the power was behind their connection and if they still thought they were chosen. I was responding to the OP who said she wasn't religious but still thought she was chosen. You even agreed this was an irrational statement by the OP. If you want to take "many" as "all" you can, but you'd be wrong as I've already written to you over and over. Despite your refute that this rarely happens among jews I will not stand down from my observation. About 50-75% of the jews I've met are pretty insular and still atheist or at least agnositic, but then I've mostly lived around NYC where they can limit their interactions easily and subtly. In NOVA in particular, the jews are not like that at all and people in general are very open to making friends from all over, but that's not where I've spent a lot of my life. As you noted, Florida is a much different place than VA or California. In reading the website of one of the jewish sororities I mentioned, their history reads "Most of the seven had experienced the subtle, but very real, discrimination practiced against religious minorities by many Greek organizations at the time." It says subtle. No one was hitting them or hurling insults for them to start a new sorority. Yet the sisters of the day when I pledged were doing the very thing that these women experienced themselves. You couldn't even acknowledge though that they were practicing discrimination, whereas according to you anyone is anti-sematic just for asking questions. I don't believe it's a good thing to be insular with just your own kind. You can be proud of you heritage, do many things with a particular group or religion without insulating yourself and judging others as less than or not worthy of your time. I don't care if you're jewish, black, white, Asian, republican, liberal, Christian, etc. We're all part of mankind. You seem to think it's ok for an Asian to be like that or at least aren't willing to judge them as being insular, but I think a young Korean in this country is also insular if they conscientiously decide to have only Korean friends. They may have the right to do this, but this action will cause the Korean to be more fearful of others and in turn others will be more fearful of him/her.

I also did not try to isolate jews in any way on this internet forum. How is that even possible to do on an anonymous opinion board? The only person who identified themselves and seems to have a greater agenda is you. "You came in"... sorry I didn't know I had to be invited. You isolated jews all by yourself with your derogatory remarks appearing as an irrational and unintelligent jew. As a worker of SAIC, I thought you'd be able to have a more civil and rational discourse. Lucky for you there are some more intelligent and rational jews on this board willing to be more civil and provide thoughtful responses. Please get out of the business of helping non-jews understand jews better. You do jews of the world no help and just stir up trouble where there wasn't any.