Fight btw BCC & WJ students after game @ 8:30 Friday night

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am not convinced that parents are primarily to blame. Several have pointed the finger at lackadaisical parenting skills as a reason for the melee last night. These students are up against a culture that promotes entitlement and disrespect for authority that has been fueled by the pandemic-related events of 2020-2022.

A culture of entitlement and disrespect for authority starts at home. This has nothing to do with the pandemic and kids have been back in school for over two years now. Stop blaming the pandemic for bad parenting. Kids don't get this way overnight. This was many years in the doing, prior to covid and they know they can do it as there is no supervision or consequences at home. MCPS should require a parent or legal guardian to attend these games or close them to the public if students cannot behave without that level of supervision. But, even so, this happened off MCPS property so those "kids" were under the supervision of their parents so ultimately the parents failed somewhere and this didn't just happen 3 years ago. Plenty of kids DON'T behave this way and also went through the pandemic.

Your post is so opinionated and judgmental. Any experienced parent, or wise adult in general, knows that of course parenting matters but it's not everything. Kids are born with certain genetics that you can't always control. Or there are circumstances that you can't control. Experiences that they go through that you can't control. Plenty of well parented kids grow up to have many issues. And plenty of poorly parented kids grow up to be perfectly well adjusted and successful.

We all wish we could point the finger at someone for everything, but the reality is that you can't.

You really want to argue all of those kids are special needs and cannot be controlled. Then they should be in a residential program, like RICA or another program if the parents cannot handle them. Bottomline is where were the parents. They weren't supervising their kids after the football game and the kids violently attacked another. When your kids dress in all black and put masks over their faces, as a parent, that's not a red flag to you?

These are high school kids. Let's say, ages 14-18. Do you think it's inappropriate for kids aged 14-18 to be out in downtown Bethesda on a Friday evening without a parent?

I would not let my 14 year old free roam. 16-18 if they were well behaved sure. But, I expect to know exactly where they are and what they are doing. A 14 year old should not be freely roaming. This is why these things are happening. And, as a parent, if my kid was dressed in all black carrying a face mask common sense is something is seriously off and going to happen.

What exactly constitutes "freely roaming"? Would you expect your kid to text you, "outside the metro station committing assault"? Do you think the kids left home with their ski masks on?

I expect them to text me if there is a change of plans. I would never ever let my kid hang out at a place like that as I know what happens there. This isn't anything new. It was happening 25-40 years ago and still is. People acting shocked shouldn't be. This has always been a rough school hidden by the wealth of Chevy Chase and Bethesda.

You don't monitor what clothing your kids go out in or where they are? This is why this stuff is happening. Until they are 18 and graduated high school they are your responsibility.

Jesus, how old are you? Forty years ago? Ok, 40 years ago I was in college. But Bethesda was a cement manufacturing, blue collar town back then. This started to radically change probably 25 or 30 years ago. And with 1/2 of the school coming from Chevy Chase - well, that part was always upscale.

Bethesda was not ever a "cement manufacturing, blue collar" town.

Although it is true that there was a concrete plant in Bethesda.
https://law.justia.com/cases/maryland/court-of-special-appeals/1985/845-september-term-1984-0.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1984/12/17/efforts-continue-to-oust-bethesda-concrete-factory/85d4d424-ad49-4f00-ba90-7fd7ab94b18f/

And, while we're at it, Chevy Chase was always exclusive. Literally exclusive.

[Anonymous]

Some posts have asked whether any of the assailants have been identified through the videos. Yes, some have been identified. I have no other information on what subsequent steps have been taken.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There's at least one other video circulating on Instagram of the events - it's longer than the one posted at the top of this thread and it show multiple people on the ground being kicked and stomped. The video shows a pretty big crowd - 20 people at least including a number of girls who are throwing punches and stomping someone. Some of the assailants can be clearly identified. The police and school authorities should have lots of evidence. It sounds like the schools did a lot to try to prevent this from happening; maybe they just need to ban student attendance at games altogether? It's outrageous.

Btw there was a BCC student last year who beat another student with a chair. It made the news and provoked a thread here at the time. One of my DCs graduated from BCC in May and I was shocked to hear the kid's name called for graduation - and he got huge cheers from the crowd. Despite the fact that he'd been violent repeatedly during his time at BCC. I have another kid still at BCC and I think it's a fantastic school in many ways. But there's something really wrong, obviously.

This is exactly the problem. Imagine being allowed to beat another student with a chair and graduate from that school.

There are no consequences for vile criminal behavior and that is directly the result of the school board.
People need to wake up.
If you care about nothing else you should at least care that bad schools drive property values down.

I have had my son attacked at an MCPS middle school just walking down the hall. Someone thought he might be gay. He was assaulted. He told his friends. When called in to the counselor, the assailant got lunch detention for several days. My son got one day of lunch detention for telling his friends. He told me, “It wasn’t that bad. I felt safe in that room they put me in alone.” My son was also told to try and befriend the bully so he wouldn’t be so angry. So they told a 12 yr old to essentially beg the bully to forgive him for existing.

This is not uncommon at MCPS. I don’t know who is responsible for the soft response to violence in schools but it appears that schools are powerless to protect our kids. The bad kids know there are no consequences.

I also have a child at BCC. The principal seems well intentioned but powerless.

This is Restorative Justice.

And as far as the BCC principal, most principals are somewhat powerless in MCPS. They have to follow what comes from the top. Their hands are tied. Admin in schools are in a tough position.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They should fire a couple teachers for good measure

Ha ha. Mooney is having a bad week. The Washington Post has an article on the front page of the metro section about the BCC teacher who is suing him and MCPS

Link? I just searched and didn’t find it.

Look for the headline “Montgomery teacher alleges in a lawsuit he was falsely accused of racism”

I was a brown kid in school in the late 1980s and got told by my teachers that I looked like other brown kids (who looked nothing like me except that we were all brown). I was delighted to receive Mooney’s email last school year and learn that teachers are not supposed to say those things.

I’m not sure if this has already been addressed, but it was shortly after the start of the new semester and the teacher told students who wanted to not sit in their assigned seats that they couldn’t because he was still learning everyone’s names and wasn’t yet able to tell the students in his new classes apart because he was using the seating chart to do so.

I am not dismissing the pain, embarrassment, and racism inherent in the historical misidentification of people of color. I am pointing out the Mooney did not properly handle this situation and called the teacher racist in a formal community letter before actually fully investigating what happened.

Yes, I read the WaPo article and disagree with you. Saying, I need to use a seating chart to learn your names is not the same thing as saying I can’t tell you people apart so you need to sit in your assigned seat.

Unfortunately teachers in our high school need to work on class behavior management techniques. I wish it were not true. But that doesn’t excuse saying what he said to get kids in their seats.

Ridiculous!!! A teacher should be able to tell students, all students, to sit in their assigned seat. The student was wrong to not listen to the teacher. Turning this into a racism argument is ridiculous abuse to get away without accountability. The teacher said I need to learn everyone’s name and this is how I do it. He doesn’t have to excuse himself for anything.

You are making things up to suit your outrage. No one ever said he can’t tell all students to sit in their assigned seats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There's at least one other video circulating on Instagram of the events - it's longer than the one posted at the top of this thread and it show multiple people on the ground being kicked and stomped. The video shows a pretty big crowd - 20 people at least including a number of girls who are throwing punches and stomping someone. Some of the assailants can be clearly identified. The police and school authorities should have lots of evidence. It sounds like the schools did a lot to try to prevent this from happening; maybe they just need to ban student attendance at games altogether? It's outrageous.

Btw there was a BCC student last year who beat another student with a chair. It made the news and provoked a thread here at the time. One of my DCs graduated from BCC in May and I was shocked to hear the kid's name called for graduation - and he got huge cheers from the crowd. Despite the fact that he'd been violent repeatedly during his time at BCC. I have another kid still at BCC and I think it's a fantastic school in many ways. But there's something really wrong, obviously.

This is exactly the problem. Imagine being allowed to beat another student with a chair and graduate from that school.

There are no consequences for vile criminal behavior and that is directly the result of the school board.
People need to wake up.
If you care about nothing else you should at least care that bad schools drive property values down.

I have had my son attacked at an MCPS middle school just walking down the hall. Someone thought he might be gay. He was assaulted. He told his friends. When called in to the counselor, the assailant got lunch detention for several days. My son got one day of lunch detention for telling his friends. He told me, “It wasn’t that bad. I felt safe in that room they put me in alone.” My son was also told to try and befriend the bully so he wouldn’t be so angry. So they told a 12 yr old to essentially beg the bully to forgive him for existing.

This is not uncommon at MCPS. I don’t know who is responsible for the soft response to violence in schools but it appears that schools are powerless to protect our kids. The bad kids know there are no consequences.

I also have a child at BCC. The principal seems well intentioned but powerless.

This is Restorative Justice.

And as far as the BCC principal, most principals are somewhat powerless in MCPS. They have to follow what comes from the top. Their hands are tied. Admin in schools are in a tough position.

Joel Beidleman, for example...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Boys in fatherless homes do less well in life. They have plenty to rage about, including their single mothers with little if any authority, and her various boyfriends.

Absentee/ part time fathers can never be equal to a strong, loving and disciplined father in the home.

Kids who grow up with parents who are judgmental, angry and like to criticize other families tend to do very poorly when they grow up. I feel so bad for kids who have parents like the one above, they are going to grow up so messed up. It's really sad that they don't have a loving mother who demonstrates respect for other people and understanding of different circumstances.

This is a parenting issue regardless of the home situation. There were at least a dozen, if not more kids involved and given that there would be multiple family situations, all of which the parents failed to supervise and discipline their kids. MCPS should require parents to attend the football games or at least require the parents to pick them up if the kids cannot act responsibly. These incidents are happening far to frequently and if they are off MCPS property, MCPS cannot be blamed and parents need to be held accountable for their kids behaviors.

For all you know, the kids involved were never even actually at the game.

That is very true, and if so, then it really has nothing to do with MCPS. Especially given the timing.

If they are MCPS students harming other MCPS students, even if it’s outside of school grounds, it has to do with MCPS.

Yes. Why can’t MCPS adopt the same rules that the private schools follow, which is basically if you do anything anytime anywhere while you are a student at our school, and it brings dishonor to the school, you risk expulsion.

Because private schools can choose their students and set conditions on being a student. Public schools can't deny providing education to a child for any reason.

That needs to change. If prisoners can earn college degrees in jail, criminal HS students can get their GEDs.

Juveniles for the most part can't be incarcerted in MD, thanks to youth criminal justice reform passed 2 years ago.

There used to be a separate school (Twain) for these troubled students, but MCPS shut it down in 2008:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/montgomery-to-close-full-day-program-for-emotionally-troubled-middle-high-schoolers

When I went to MCPS many ages ago, our taunt to each other was if you did something really bad, you'd end up in Twain.

This. And the kids know it so they know they can get away with all sorts of criminal behavior in and out of schools.

This is what we have all voted for over the past few decades in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Heard the guy who got kicked has broken ribs.
There is a problem with crime in Montgomery County and you can thank Ehrlich and rhe far left progressives for giving away your hard built lives to people who didn't earn it

The low IQ Trumpanzee couldn’t hold it in. Focus on Trump advocating violence and that he deserves to be in jail.

I'm the pp you're calling a trumpanzee.
I've voted Democrat in every election beginning with AL gore.
Ans I'm still not voting republican. But people like you who equate any ripple in the force as "must be a trump voter! Must be a racist! Cancel! Cancel!" Will be the ruin of this county.
People learn something when they work for what they earn. All people deserve basic human rights but there's a big difference between that and allowing thugs to roam our classroom, push our teachers out with their horrible behavior, beat up on our kids and seem hell bent on having our stores shut down because they're looting our neighborhoods.
You can't let your kids walk around outside. Kids aren't safe in school. Packages arent safe on your doorstep. Your mail isnt safe in the box overnight. This isn't the place we moved to 20 years ago and you're to blame.
The Democratic party isn't a cult like the other side is. You're allowed to criticize the leaders who are failing us.
I'm assuming you have some mental problems and are as bad as the other side in terms of just blindly following a cult of personality- in your case- the cult of ideals. But the policies aren't working.

DP here and I fully agree. This is now why I'm registered as no party affiliation. If you talk about "crazy" ideas like prosecuting lawbreakers, you get branded a Trump supporter...

+1 also. DP. I also have been lifelong Dem but now an independent. Guess there are a lot of us.

The only thing this accomplishes is preventing yourself from being able to vote in the primary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yikes, hope everyone is ok, esp the kid who seemed to be kicked in the head at the Bethesda metro. They really need to up security at games. Sad start to the year.

That video is INSANE.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Every WJ/BCC basketball and football game. Just means they'll impose more restrictions going forward.

It's just another strong indicator of MCPS decline when students at these schools act like gang members.

It’s likely because they ARE gang members.

Quite possibly.

Tell me you’ve always lived west of the park without….

Actually, no.

Are you familiar with gang issues in MoCo schools?

Yes. And have done the gang training multiple times.

To add - Some of those kids (not the attackers) appear super young. Please don’t ascribe adult attributes to children of color.

Kids can be evil too, just like these kids are. And they deserve to face every consequence for the despicable behavior. That child being ruthlessly beaten and kicked in the head is someone's kid too, a child who may now have brain damage for life. He and she absolutely deserve justice for what was done to them, and future citizens need to be protected from violent criminals who would beat them this senselessly too. Age is not a defense for this kind of savagery.

This. The BEHAVIOR is what matters, regardless of age. And the public/other children deserve to be protected from violent people. We often seem to want to only focus on the perp and not the victim or potential victims. And as parents we know, without consequences, the behavior is likely to repeat and escalate over time. If you care about the violent kids, denying and minimizing hurts them too. Condemns them to a life characterized by violence and perhaps early death or incarceration. Anti-social behavior is literally that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is very sad to see. I have known kids from both these communities for many years. There is no excuse for this kind of malicious violence, none. There need to be appropriate consequences.
At the same time, I do think we need to ask why these kids are so angry. There is an enormous range of wealth within these schools, particularly BCC, how does that affect some of these at risk youth? How can we, as a community, being to address this?

Wait, so this happened because some poor kids were mad at their wealthier classmates?

Highly unlikely. Please don’t assume that all poor kids are enviously jealous of their wealthier classmates. And also don’t assume that all ooor kids are violent. wTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Boys in fatherless homes do less well in life. They have plenty to rage about, including their single mothers with little if any authority, and her various boyfriends.

Absentee/ part time fathers can never be equal to a strong, loving and disciplined father in the home.

Kids who grow up with parents who are judgmental, angry and like to criticize other families tend to do very poorly when they grow up. I feel so bad for kids who have parents like the one above, they are going to grow up so messed up. It's really sad that they don't have a loving mother who demonstrates respect for other people and understanding of different circumstances.

This is a parenting issue regardless of the home situation. There were at least a dozen, if not more kids involved and given that there would be multiple family situations, all of which the parents failed to supervise and discipline their kids. MCPS should require parents to attend the football games or at least require the parents to pick them up if the kids cannot act responsibly. These incidents are happening far to frequently and if they are off MCPS property, MCPS cannot be blamed and parents need to be held accountable for their kids behaviors.

For all you know, the kids involved were never even actually at the game.

That is very true, and if so, then it really has nothing to do with MCPS. Especially given the timing.

If they are MCPS students harming other MCPS students, even if it’s outside of school grounds, it has to do with MCPS.

Yes. Why can’t MCPS adopt the same rules that the private schools follow, which is basically if you do anything anytime anywhere while you are a student at our school, and it brings dishonor to the school, you risk expulsion.

Because private schools can choose their students and set conditions on being a student. Public schools can't deny providing education to a child for any reason.

That needs to change. If prisoners can earn college degrees in jail, criminal HS students can get their GEDs.

Juveniles for the most part can't be incarcerted in MD, thanks to youth criminal justice reform passed 2 years ago.

There used to be a separate school (Twain) for these troubled students, but MCPS shut it down in 2008:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/montgomery-to-close-full-day-program-for-emotionally-troubled-middle-high-schoolers

When I went to MCPS many ages ago, our taunt to each other was if you did something really bad, you'd end up in Twain.

This. And the kids know it so they know they can get away with all sorts of criminal behavior in and out of schools.

This is what we have all voted for over the past few decades in MoCo.

The Twain school was for kids with disabilities, not kids who are disruptive/criminals. There should be “alternative schools” for kids who disrupt other kids on a consistent basis, that do not require any sort of IEP/diagnosis. The Twain school, as far as I am aware, has been replaced by largely self-contained programs (Bridge and RICA) that actually have good reputations (head over to the SN board and ask). The other programs that are more mainstreamed are SESES and ESES, which also appear to provide good supports.

[Anonymous]

What happened was terrible and any kids that did wrong should be thoroughly punished. But I don’t believe BCC is a disproportionately troubled school that should be holistically criticized and punished simply because of what happens after sporting events. BCC is directly adjacent to a big downtown area that draws kids to stay around and/or use metro, and that same area draws lots of people who weren’t at the game. Other high schools seem to be largely (obviously not exclusively) surrounded by suburban lawns which likely doesn’t entice lots of kids to stick around in huge crowds. The majority of MCPS HS just aren’t directly adjacent to a big downtown area that are attractive in their own right.

After a game at Whitman or Churchill where are you going? Your car? I wonder if you’d see more similar issues at other schools if they were geographically similarly situated.

I think one of the real problems is that it isn’t effective for BCC to take the same safety approach as other schools because its neighborhood is so dissimilar. They really need a different approach that addresses their issues specifically rather than just relying on the standard MCPS sports crack down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's at least one other video circulating on Instagram of the events - it's longer than the one posted at the top of this thread and it show multiple people on the ground being kicked and stomped. The video shows a pretty big crowd - 20 people at least including a number of girls who are throwing punches and stomping someone. Some of the assailants can be clearly identified. The police and school authorities should have lots of evidence. It sounds like the schools did a lot to try to prevent this from happening; maybe they just need to ban student attendance at games altogether? It's outrageous.

Btw there was a BCC student last year who beat another student with a chair. It made the news and provoked a thread here at the time. One of my DCs graduated from BCC in May and I was shocked to hear the kid's name called for graduation - and he got huge cheers from the crowd. Despite the fact that he'd been violent repeatedly during his time at BCC. I have another kid still at BCC and I think it's a fantastic school in many ways. But there's something really wrong, obviously.

This is exactly the problem. Imagine being allowed to beat another student with a chair and graduate from that school.

There are no consequences for vile criminal behavior and that is directly the result of the school board.
People need to wake up.
If you care about nothing else you should at least care that bad schools drive property values down.

I have had my son attacked at an MCPS middle school just walking down the hall. Someone thought he might be gay. He was assaulted. He told his friends. When called in to the counselor, the assailant got lunch detention for several days. My son got one day of lunch detention for telling his friends. He told me, “It wasn’t that bad. I felt safe in that room they put me in alone.” My son was also told to try and befriend the bully so he wouldn’t be so angry. So they told a 12 yr old to essentially beg the bully to forgive him for existing.

This is not uncommon at MCPS. I don’t know who is responsible for the soft response to violence in schools but it appears that schools are powerless to protect our kids. The bad kids know there are no consequences.

I also have a child at BCC. The principal seems well intentioned but powerless.

This is Restorative Justice.

And as far as the BCC principal, most principals are somewhat powerless in MCPS. They have to follow what comes from the top. Their hands are tied. Admin in schools are in a tough position.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/

RJ often seems to shift a good part of the responsibility for managing violent behavior from the violent person to the victim. In simplistic scenarios I could see, washing off an egged house or repainting over graffiti, it should have no place in a kid managing a violent homophobe who has targeted them. And conversation with friends is and should be protected speech. Why are victims not supposed to be able to get social support? In many respects in the way it's implemented it seems like a recipe for chaos and further victimization and self loathing by victims when they can't "control" or "fix" perps.

In DC, Racine said it was appropriate in the case of homicides, how is the victim supposed to participate there - Ouija board or psychic? Same Racine who said he keeps gas in car topped up so his partner and young kids don't risk being carjacked at a gas station, as though how he failed to effectively address juvenile crime had no bearing on the issue. Sometimes the world makes less and less sense...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those people quickly spouting off that these two schools shouldn't have sporting events or shouldn't be able to have spectators, there are many videos floating around. These were not groups of students fighting. These were ATTACKS by larger groups of individuals on mostly defenseless students. As others have said, once you move to stomping/kicking someone's head while they are on the ground...on concrete...it SHOULD be attempted murder!

More facts are coming out....students from BOTH schools were attacked. It was more about walking alone or with 1-2 others. Other students are reporting they were threatened/followed/taunted but made it to areas with larger police presence. Sadly, several individuals were cornered and not able to get away.

This is a police issue and criminal charges must be filed. The schools can certainly help with identification and provide disciplinary records that may contribute to determining patterns of behavior. As a parent who has many issues with MCPS, I can say that the rules in place AT the game were enforced and created a safe environment.

I'm confident that many in these mobs of individuals attacking others did not attend the game. I'm also sure a percentage don't even attend BCC and were in the area with friends for the purpose of creating havoc!

I was expecting this to be the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every WJ/BCC basketball and football game. Just means they'll impose more restrictions going forward.

It's just another strong indicator of MCPS decline when students at these schools act like gang members.

It’s likely because they ARE gang members.

Quite possibly.

Tell me you’ve always lived west of the park without….

Actually, no.

Are you familiar with gang issues in MoCo schools?

Yes. And have done the gang training multiple times.

To add - Some of those kids (not the attackers) appear super young. Please don’t ascribe adult attributes to children of color.

Kids can be evil too, just like these kids are. And they deserve to face every consequence for the despicable behavior. That child being ruthlessly beaten and kicked in the head is someone's kid too, a child who may now have brain damage for life. He and she absolutely deserve justice for what was done to them, and future citizens need to be protected from violent criminals who would beat them this senselessly too. Age is not a defense for this kind of savagery.

This. The BEHAVIOR is what matters, regardless of age. And the public/other children deserve to be protected from violent people. We often seem to want to only focus on the perp and not the victim or potential victims. And as parents we know, without consequences, the behavior is likely to repeat and escalate over time. If you care about the violent kids, denying and minimizing hurts them too. Condemns them to a life characterized by violence and perhaps early death or incarceration. Anti-social behavior is literally that.

+1 Well said. We are NOT helping kids have better lives by making light of aggressive and violent behavior.