Disappointed by TJ decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit confused. So TJ has 550 seats total. Each middle school from each participating county gets at least 1.5% of those seats. Thus almost half of the seats are via specific school quota. Additional qualified candidates compete for remaining half of the seats. So this is regardless of school or county right. So a kid from Loudoun can compete with a kid from Prince William and has the same chance? Then how does the waitpool work? Is it school-specific, county specific, or everyone else is put in the same pool? So if a kid from Loudoun declines, who is the next one in line - kid from his school, kid from Loudoun, or kid from Prince William if his scores are right beneath the Loudoun kid?

It is not 1.5% of those seats that a school is guaranteed. They are guaranteed seats for 1.5% of their 8th grade class. 400 8th graders means only 6 seats, about 1% of the 550 TJ seats.
Loudoun and other counties have their own share of the seats guaranteed, with these schools also getting 1.5% minimum quota. Not sure how the waitlist works. It appears to be not school-specific, in Fairfax or outside Fairfax, but perhaps it is county specific.

It's not. According to the Admissions Policy, spaces that are declined become unallocated and the waitlist is not school-specific.

I should qualify - counties/jurisdictions are still limited in terms of the total number of students they are permitted, but schools are not.

But are the counties guaranteed their number of seats? If someone in Arlington declines, will that seat be given to someone in Arlington first?

No. But if Arlington has reached its limit, which rarely happens, the seat will not go to a student from Arlington. The only jurisdiction that does reach their limit regularly is Loudoun.

I thought these jurisdictions were paying for a certain number of students. Is the payment per student? It would seem weird for Arlington to pay for 20 students and only send 19.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit confused. So TJ has 550 seats total. Each middle school from each participating county gets at least 1.5% of those seats. Thus almost half of the seats are via specific school quota. Additional qualified candidates compete for remaining half of the seats. So this is regardless of school or county right. So a kid from Loudoun can compete with a kid from Prince William and has the same chance? Then how does the waitpool work? Is it school-specific, county specific, or everyone else is put in the same pool? So if a kid from Loudoun declines, who is the next one in line - kid from his school, kid from Loudoun, or kid from Prince William if his scores are right beneath the Loudoun kid?

It is not 1.5% of those seats that a school is guaranteed. They are guaranteed seats for 1.5% of their 8th grade class. 400 8th graders means only 6 seats, about 1% of the 550 TJ seats.
Loudoun and other counties have their own share of the seats guaranteed, with these schools also getting 1.5% minimum quota. Not sure how the waitlist works. It appears to be not school-specific, in Fairfax or outside Fairfax, but perhaps it is county specific.

It's not. According to the Admissions Policy, spaces that are declined become unallocated and the waitlist is not school-specific.

I should qualify - counties/jurisdictions are still limited in terms of the total number of students they are permitted, but schools are not.

But are the counties guaranteed their number of seats? If someone in Arlington declines, will that seat be given to someone in Arlington first?

No. But if Arlington has reached its limit, which rarely happens, the seat will not go to a student from Arlington. The only jurisdiction that does reach their limit regularly is Loudoun.

I thought these jurisdictions were paying for a certain number of students. Is the payment per student? It would seem weird for Arlington to pay for 20 students and only send 19.

That's not quite how it works - we're talking about two different issues here.

What I'm referring to is the limit of students per jurisdiction, which is calculated each year by evaluating the total number of 8th grade students within the catchment area and assigning an upper limit to each of the participating jurisdictions in terms of the percentage of the incoming class they are permitted to have.

The simplest example of this is with Falls Church City. FCCPS only has one high school, Meridian, which usually has about 200 or so seniors in each graduating class - which means that's about their number of total eighth graders year over year. Compare that to 25 FCPS high schools, averaging let's say 500-600 a piece, plus high numbers from Loudoun and Prince William, with a smaller number from Arlington. Because of this, FCCPS's yearly limit is generally either 2 or 3 kids that can be admitted to TJ, even though they almost certainly have a much larger number of students who would qualify as a top-500 evaluated candidate. Limits are only placed on the non-FCPS jurisdictions. Loudoun's is usually somewhere from 100-120, and sometimes they reach their limit; I don't know PW's because they never remotely approach it; and Arlington's is usually 20-30 and they hit it fairly frequently.

The separate issue regards the tuition paid by the jurisdictions on a per-student basis - they only pay for the number of students who actually matriculate. As I recall, the tuition per student a few years ago was about $17,000, paid to FCPS by these jurisdictions. So in a given year, Loudoun County Public Schools are paying close to $2 million for the privilege of sending kids to TJ - which is why it's a topic of conversation every year given what they're spending already on the Academies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

Stop using facts and reason to ruin our narrative. We're just trying to get back to an admission standard where we can buy our way in like the good old days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

I dont think you understand math or statistics. This is complete utter nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit confused. So TJ has 550 seats total. Each middle school from each participating county gets at least 1.5% of those seats. Thus almost half of the seats are via specific school quota. Additional qualified candidates compete for remaining half of the seats. So this is regardless of school or county right. So a kid from Loudoun can compete with a kid from Prince William and has the same chance? Then how does the waitpool work? Is it school-specific, county specific, or everyone else is put in the same pool? So if a kid from Loudoun declines, who is the next one in line - kid from his school, kid from Loudoun, or kid from Prince William if his scores are right beneath the Loudoun kid?

It is not 1.5% of those seats that a school is guaranteed. They are guaranteed seats for 1.5% of their 8th grade class. 400 8th graders means only 6 seats, about 1% of the 550 TJ seats.
Loudoun and other counties have their own share of the seats guaranteed, with these schools also getting 1.5% minimum quota. Not sure how the waitlist works. It appears to be not school-specific, in Fairfax or outside Fairfax, but perhaps it is county specific.

It's not. According to the Admissions Policy, spaces that are declined become unallocated and the waitlist is not school-specific.

I should qualify - counties/jurisdictions are still limited in terms of the total number of students they are permitted, but schools are not.

But are the counties guaranteed their number of seats? If someone in Arlington declines, will that seat be given to someone in Arlington first?

No. But if Arlington has reached its limit, which rarely happens, the seat will not go to a student from Arlington. The only jurisdiction that does reach their limit regularly is Loudoun.

I don't think this is true about Arlington. APS budgets for 25 kids a year to go to TJ. This year, it seemed to work out that TJ picked 4 kids at each APS middle school. APS told parents that TJ was handling the entire admissions process, and that APS had no say at all in who got selected. A lot of APS kids were waitpooled. If an APS kid declines, there are plenty of kids on the waiting list who would likely take the remaining APS spot. Maybe APS is entitled to more spots than 25, but I don't see our School Board paying for any additional spots anytime soon. In fact, they regularly talk about cutting TJ from the budget because they complain about the additional transportation costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit confused. So TJ has 550 seats total. Each middle school from each participating county gets at least 1.5% of those seats. Thus almost half of the seats are via specific school quota. Additional qualified candidates compete for remaining half of the seats. So this is regardless of school or county right. So a kid from Loudoun can compete with a kid from Prince William and has the same chance? Then how does the waitpool work? Is it school-specific, county specific, or everyone else is put in the same pool? So if a kid from Loudoun declines, who is the next one in line - kid from his school, kid from Loudoun, or kid from Prince William if his scores are right beneath the Loudoun kid?

It is not 1.5% of those seats that a school is guaranteed. They are guaranteed seats for 1.5% of their 8th grade class. 400 8th graders means only 6 seats, about 1% of the 550 TJ seats.
Loudoun and other counties have their own share of the seats guaranteed, with these schools also getting 1.5% minimum quota. Not sure how the waitlist works. It appears to be not school-specific, in Fairfax or outside Fairfax, but perhaps it is county specific.

It's not. According to the Admissions Policy, spaces that are declined become unallocated and the waitlist is not school-specific.

I should qualify - counties/jurisdictions are still limited in terms of the total number of students they are permitted, but schools are not.

But are the counties guaranteed their number of seats? If someone in Arlington declines, will that seat be given to someone in Arlington first?

No. But if Arlington has reached its limit, which rarely happens, the seat will not go to a student from Arlington. The only jurisdiction that does reach their limit regularly is Loudoun.

I don't think this is true about Arlington. APS budgets for 25 kids a year to go to TJ. This year, it seemed to work out that TJ picked 4 kids at each APS middle school. APS told parents that TJ was handling the entire admissions process, and that APS had no say at all in who got selected. A lot of APS kids were waitpooled. If an APS kid declines, there are plenty of kids on the waiting list who would likely take the remaining APS spot. Maybe APS is entitled to more spots than 25, but I don't see our School Board paying for any additional spots anytime soon. In fact, they regularly talk about cutting TJ from the budget because they complain about the additional transportation costs.

Arlington doesn’t have the option to increase their limit. It is set by FCPS as part of the TJ admissions policy based on the percentage of 8th grade students in the catchment area are from APS. It may change year over year based on natural fluctuation, but Arlington doesn’t have a say in the matter except to decrease their limit, in the same way that Loudoun tried to back in 2019.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

I dont think you understand math or statistics. This is complete utter nonsense.

DP. It’s EXACTLY correct on every level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit confused. So TJ has 550 seats total. Each middle school from each participating county gets at least 1.5% of those seats. Thus almost half of the seats are via specific school quota. Additional qualified candidates compete for remaining half of the seats. So this is regardless of school or county right. So a kid from Loudoun can compete with a kid from Prince William and has the same chance? Then how does the waitpool work? Is it school-specific, county specific, or everyone else is put in the same pool? So if a kid from Loudoun declines, who is the next one in line - kid from his school, kid from Loudoun, or kid from Prince William if his scores are right beneath the Loudoun kid?

It is not 1.5% of those seats that a school is guaranteed. They are guaranteed seats for 1.5% of their 8th grade class. 400 8th graders means only 6 seats, about 1% of the 550 TJ seats.
Loudoun and other counties have their own share of the seats guaranteed, with these schools also getting 1.5% minimum quota. Not sure how the waitlist works. It appears to be not school-specific, in Fairfax or outside Fairfax, but perhaps it is county specific.

It's not. According to the Admissions Policy, spaces that are declined become unallocated and the waitlist is not school-specific.

I should qualify - counties/jurisdictions are still limited in terms of the total number of students they are permitted, but schools are not.

But are the counties guaranteed their number of seats? If someone in Arlington declines, will that seat be given to someone in Arlington first?

No. But if Arlington has reached its limit, which rarely happens, the seat will not go to a student from Arlington. The only jurisdiction that does reach their limit regularly is Loudoun.

I don't think this is true about Arlington. APS budgets for 25 kids a year to go to TJ. This year, it seemed to work out that TJ picked 4 kids at each APS middle school. APS told parents that TJ was handling the entire admissions process, and that APS had no say at all in who got selected. A lot of APS kids were waitpooled. If an APS kid declines, there are plenty of kids on the waiting list who would likely take the remaining APS spot. Maybe APS is entitled to more spots than 25, but I don't see our School Board paying for any additional spots anytime soon. In fact, they regularly talk about cutting TJ from the budget because they complain about the additional transportation costs.

Arlington doesn’t have the option to increase their limit. It is set by FCPS as part of the TJ admissions policy based on the percentage of 8th grade students in the catchment area are from APS. It may change year over year based on natural fluctuation, but Arlington doesn’t have a say in the matter except to decrease their limit, in the same way that Loudoun tried to back in 2019.

That's what I was trying to say. APS should be entitled to more than 25 students based on our increased school population size over the past decade, but we haven't increased the funding in our county budget. In other words, 4 students per middle school is less than 1.5% of the middle school population-- we should be getting 5-6 spots per middle school based on that metric, but Arlington County hasn't added any more $ to the TJ line item in our annual school budget so we are stuck at the 25 student cap. There are definitely many disappointed APS kids on the waitpool list for those 25 spots. I would be shocked if APS has "extra" spots this year other than the ones they gave up at the beginning of the process when they decided to only budget for 25 kids to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

BINGO! Excellent analysis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

So poor Asian kids overperform against their peers too? Probably wasnt really an issue about privilege then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

DP - I have to admit, it doesn't look great for the Coalition's argument that low-income Asians were the biggest winners in all of this. We can certainly disagree about the relative merits of the old admissions process and the new one, but that fact pretty much torpedoes the whole argument about the changes being racially motivated. When combined with the FARMS rate at TJ going from less than 1% to up over 25%, that tells you that this was a question of limiting the impact of wealth and privilege in the process rather than race. It just so happens that, especially in Northern Virginia, Asians (and primarily South Asians) are the highest earners and so they were the most likely to be affected - partly because of their wealth and partly because of their apparent desire to self-segregate into small enclaves in Herndon, Ashburn, and South Riding.

So poor Asian kids overperform against their peers too? Probably wasnt really an issue about privilege then.

It absolutely was. And the evidence is that, once the process stopped being tilted in favor of privilege, students of the same race but of lower SES started getting admitted.

Believe it or not, progressives are THRILLED about this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am a bit confused. So TJ has 550 seats total. Each middle school from each participating county gets at least 1.5% of those seats. Thus almost half of the seats are via specific school quota. Additional qualified candidates compete for remaining half of the seats. So this is regardless of school or county right. So a kid from Loudoun can compete with a kid from Prince William and has the same chance? Then how does the waitpool work? Is it school-specific, county specific, or everyone else is put in the same pool? So if a kid from Loudoun declines, who is the next one in line - kid from his school, kid from Loudoun, or kid from Prince William if his scores are right beneath the Loudoun kid?

It is not 1.5% of those seats that a school is guaranteed. They are guaranteed seats for 1.5% of their 8th grade class. 400 8th graders means only 6 seats, about 1% of the 550 TJ seats.
Loudoun and other counties have their own share of the seats guaranteed, with these schools also getting 1.5% minimum quota. Not sure how the waitlist works. It appears to be not school-specific, in Fairfax or outside Fairfax, but perhaps it is county specific.

It's not. According to the Admissions Policy, spaces that are declined become unallocated and the waitlist is not school-specific.

I should qualify - counties/jurisdictions are still limited in terms of the total number of students they are permitted, but schools are not.

But are the counties guaranteed their number of seats? If someone in Arlington declines, will that seat be given to someone in Arlington first?

No. But if Arlington has reached its limit, which rarely happens, the seat will not go to a student from Arlington. The only jurisdiction that does reach their limit regularly is Loudoun.

I don't think this is true about Arlington. APS budgets for 25 kids a year to go to TJ. This year, it seemed to work out that TJ picked 4 kids at each APS middle school. APS told parents that TJ was handling the entire admissions process, and that APS had no say at all in who got selected. A lot of APS kids were waitpooled. If an APS kid declines, there are plenty of kids on the waiting list who would likely take the remaining APS spot. Maybe APS is entitled to more spots than 25, but I don't see our School Board paying for any additional spots anytime soon. In fact, they regularly talk about cutting TJ from the budget because they complain about the additional transportation costs.

Arlington doesn’t have the option to increase their limit. It is set by FCPS as part of the TJ admissions policy based on the percentage of 8th grade students in the catchment area are from APS. It may change year over year based on natural fluctuation, but Arlington doesn’t have a say in the matter except to decrease their limit, in the same way that Loudoun tried to back in 2019.

That's what I was trying to say. APS should be entitled to more than 25 students based on our increased school population size over the past decade, but we haven't increased the funding in our county budget. In other words, 4 students per middle school is less than 1.5% of the middle school population-- we should be getting 5-6 spots per middle school based on that metric, but Arlington County hasn't added any more $ to the TJ line item in our annual school budget so we are stuck at the 25 student cap. There are definitely many disappointed APS kids on the waitpool list for those 25 spots. I would be shocked if APS has "extra" spots this year other than the ones they gave up at the beginning of the process when they decided to only budget for 25 kids to go.

Are you certain that APS’ percentage of students in the catchment area relative to other jurisdictions has increased? Loudoun has seemingly added a new high school every year or every other year for the past two decades. Arlington has added none.

Be sure to use statistics in your response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Every child in FCPS has the same academic opportunity as any other child with regard to school provided services.”

This was not true under the old system. We’re in Robinson zone. So no AAP at MS. Yes we could have placed at LB since DC qualified but they sent barely any kids to TJ historically too. Robinson does not offer any of the special math extracurriculars that the TJ feeder zones do - or at least did not during DC’s MS years. DC’s ES - a center school - did not offer algebra in 6th so 7th was the earliest it was available. There is no prep school (which I realize is beyond FCPS directly) near us so odds of crushing the old test would have been iffy.

Dc is at TJ and doing well. The old system was set up in a way that dramatically pulled from a much smaller handful of schools. The new way is better in my view.

Completely agree, the old system kept out less affluent students and was completely rigged in many ways.

The worst was the blatant cheating where probably close to 50% of those got in had advanced access to the admission test because the prep centers had been building question banks. This was a total pay to play scheme.

Now in the new system, they have rigged it to give URMs unearned points. Shame they couldn’t figure out a fair way to assess students.

Why you hating on the URM’s, they aren’t the ones who benefited most from the new system. It was the white kids. You are just too busy kissing white a$$ to call them out out. The URM populations didn’t grow much under the new admissions process.

Statistics confirm that the largest beneficiaries of the new admissions system are poor Asians.

where did you get this information?

I think this is being inferred, that Asians attending certain schools are low income.

Nope. It's based on actual FARMS data.

Did TJ or FCPS put out a breakdown of low-income Asians?