Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What was with Shiv falling on the stairs? Miscarriage? Or a complication that requires Tom to be in on it?

I hated they revealed she was pregnant in the same episode she tripped down two stairs. No, I'm pretty sure you can't miscarry a second trimester baby by tripping down two steps without any impact to the abdomen. I think the true symbolism of her stumble, is that Shiv was bitter that she wasn't named CEO because she's competing for a space in the Boy's Club, and she was trying to assert her dominance, and then immediately tripped and appeared weak in front of those men who rushed to her rescue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh snap! PPs bet wrong- both Kerri and Marcia back!

That was brutal, not that I minded. But for a twist of fate, the $63 million apartment could have been Kerri's in a matter of months. I would also Marcia would have an ironclad prenup in place, will be interesting to see how that pans out.

They showed her negotiating her post-nup after Logan's affair with the Holly Hunter character. We know it was very generous to Marcia.

Do you think she was honest when she said that her and Logan talked every day?

Um, no. With Kerri as his closest confidante, what did he need Marcia for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did Shiv need an amino? I don’t think she miscarried but that fall feels out of place otherwise.

To gauge whether or not she should get an abortion. She may have conflicting views on it, and if the child had birth defects, may have been an easy decision for her.

I think they wrote in the amnio because Hollywood constantly gets pregnancy and L&D wrong. See: every birth scene in a TV show or movie. Bringing up the amnio was a recognizable way for the audience (many who probably wouldn't recognize basic pregnancy terms) to pick up that she's pregnant. She's also very pregnant, the next sonogram is at 20 weeks, so she's at least 15 weeks along. The question is: who was she sleeping with 15 weeks ago?

I am going to give this show more credit than that for now and assume they know what an amnio is and also when it would normally be done and for what reasons. Shiv is early to mid-30s, which is young for an amnio if you don't have some kind of genetic history or concern. BUT Shiv is super rich and rich people play by very different rules with medical procedures. I could absolutely see her getting an amnio even if she's only 32 or 33, just to be cautious. And perhaps due to ambivalence about the baby, as a PP pointed out -- a problem on the amnio gives her an excuse to terminate (which, again, someone in Shiv's position could do even though she's further along because she's rich -- she could have a late term abortion if she wanted, she can do whatever she wants).

They also got the timing exactly right. You do an amnio between 15 and 20 weeks, and it sounds like her 20 week scan is coming up. I'm guessing Shiv Roy doesn't have to wait around for amnio results, so she probably had the procedure done in the last few days. Shiv's been late to things and looked a bit disheveled when she arrived over the last few episodes -- totally believable that she's been at the doctor's office (or puking her guts out).

I think it's probably Tom's baby because I don't get the impression Shiv has actually been sleeping with other people lately. She was enraged to hear that Tom was dating and possibly/probably sleeping with other women, which I am guessing is because she knew she was pregnant with Tom's baby and wanted to keep all her options as wide open as possible while she decided what to do. She will want to maintain control over the situation. But her dad's death is totally throwing a wrench in that. And now she's being pushed aside by her brothers at the company... she's trying to figure out how to play this to her advantage but the rules for business are all written for men, not women who are 20 weeks pregnant and separated from their husbands. The other women on the show married into money and used marriage/kids to secure their futures. Shiv already has money, she wants something else, and it's something that marriage/kids may be an obstacle to.

[Anonymous]

The GYN said something about the amnio taking care of the other concern they had. It sounds to me like Shiv previously had a test with a worrisome result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh snap! PPs bet wrong- both Kerri and Marcia back!

That was brutal, not that I minded. But for a twist of fate, the $63 million apartment could have been Kerri's in a matter of months. I would also Marcia would have an ironclad prenup in place, will be interesting to see how that pans out.

They showed her negotiating her post-nup after Logan's affair with the Holly Hunter character. We know it was very generous to Marcia.

Do you think she was honest when she said that her and Logan talked every day?

She and Logan talked every day.

[Anonymous]

^^what makes you think Shiv is early 30s? I assumed around 40. Kendall early 40s, Roman late 30s?

[Anonymous]

I think it is Tom's baby based on how she keeps looking at him strangely. Like she wants to tell him, but also doesn't want to at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was with Shiv falling on the stairs? Miscarriage? Or a complication that requires Tom to be in on it?

I hated they revealed she was pregnant in the same episode she tripped down two stairs. No, I'm pretty sure you can't miscarry a second trimester baby by tripping down two steps without any impact to the abdomen. I think the true symbolism of her stumble, is that Shiv was bitter that she wasn't named CEO because she's competing for a space in the Boy's Club, and she was trying to assert her dominance, and then immediately tripped and appeared weak in front of those men who rushed to her rescue.

I think it's both. I think the trip was designed to show how vulnerable Shiv is (or feels) in this moment. It's supposed to make you think about her pregnancy immediately (I remember when I was pregnant, people would freak out if I stumbled at all -- there is this heightened paranoia even if a trip or fall is not a big deal and unlikely to cause an issue), but the timing is also reflective of her feeling like she's being shut out at Waystar, and it came in a scene where she was snapping at people. She feels out of control, and the pregnancy is very much part of that. It's not a coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The GYN said something about the amnio taking care of the other concern they had. It sounds to me like Shiv previously had a test with a worrisome result.

True, but I'm still going to chalk it up to the GYN having "concerns" that there were billable, unnecessary screening tests that her super rich patient would pay for without question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did Shiv need an amino? I don’t think she miscarried but that fall feels out of place otherwise.

To gauge whether or not she should get an abortion. She may have conflicting views on it, and if the child had birth defects, may have been an easy decision for her.

I think they wrote in the amnio because Hollywood constantly gets pregnancy and L&D wrong. See: every birth scene in a TV show or movie. Bringing up the amnio was a recognizable way for the audience (many who probably wouldn't recognize basic pregnancy terms) to pick up that she's pregnant. She's also very pregnant, the next sonogram is at 20 weeks, so she's at least 15 weeks along. The question is: who was she sleeping with 15 weeks ago?

I am going to give this show more credit than that for now and assume they know what an amnio is and also when it would normally be done and for what reasons. Shiv is early to mid-30s, which is young for an amnio if you don't have some kind of genetic history or concern. BUT Shiv is super rich and rich people play by very different rules with medical procedures. I could absolutely see her getting an amnio even if she's only 32 or 33, just to be cautious. And perhaps due to ambivalence about the baby, as a PP pointed out -- a problem on the amnio gives her an excuse to terminate (which, again, someone in Shiv's position could do even though she's further along because she's rich -- she could have a late term abortion if she wanted, she can do whatever she wants).

They also got the timing exactly right. You do an amnio between 15 and 20 weeks, and it sounds like her 20 week scan is coming up. I'm guessing Shiv Roy doesn't have to wait around for amnio results, so she probably had the procedure done in the last few days. Shiv's been late to things and looked a bit disheveled when she arrived over the last few episodes -- totally believable that she's been at the doctor's office (or puking her guts out).

I think it's probably Tom's baby because I don't get the impression Shiv has actually been sleeping with other people lately. She was enraged to hear that Tom was dating and possibly/probably sleeping with other women, which I am guessing is because she knew she was pregnant with Tom's baby and wanted to keep all her options as wide open as possible while she decided what to do. She will want to maintain control over the situation. But her dad's death is totally throwing a wrench in that. And now she's being pushed aside by her brothers at the company... she's trying to figure out how to play this to her advantage but the rules for business are all written for men, not women who are 20 weeks pregnant and separated from their husbands. The other women on the show married into money and used marriage/kids to secure their futures. Shiv already has money, she wants something else, and it's something that marriage/kids may be an obstacle to.

An amino is pretty invasive too but I guess it makes sense for Shiv to have a greater sense of control. I would’ve thought she would do the cell free DNA blood test already though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^what makes you think Shiv is early 30s? I assumed around 40. Kendall early 40s, Roman late 30s?

Kendall just had his big 40th birthday celebration last season. So he is 40. Roman is younger, so he's mid- to late 30s, and then Shiv is the youngest so she is early to mid-30s. I'd put her at 35 at the latest because I have a hard time believing the kids are less than 5 years apart in age -- given their family, I doubt their parents were together enough to make that happen.

A lot of people think Roman is the baby but Shiv is (and is part of what made Logan dote on her a bit more). Roman is just less mature. It actually makes sense in terms of attachment theory and childhood development -- Shiv is more mature because she received more positive attention as a child and was able to develop a positive sense of self-worth. Roman, as the middle child of three (they forget about Connor so I guess we will too) and the second son, was ignored and heavily criticized (and maybe hit) by his dad, had no opportunity to develop a sense of self in a nurturing family environment, so he's incredibly insecure and hides behind humor and sarcasm to mask the fact that he is in pretty much constant need of the validation he never received as a child.

[Anonymous]

The amnio storyline made sense to me. Maybe she hadn’t told Tom for a combo of reasons, then something came up on the cell free DNA or the 12 week scan, so she continued to not tell him in case the pregnancy didn’t continue. You have to wait a few more weeks to do the amnio, so now she knows everything’s okay and she’ll be forced to tell him.

The rest of the episode was kind of blah to me but Shiv was excellent. Her and Tom on the stairs was so rough. They’re both such good actors. It made all the stuff with the executives seem much sillier/unbelievable by comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What was with Shiv falling on the stairs? Miscarriage? Or a complication that requires Tom to be in on it?

I hope not - although if we are following Chekhov - pretty much the only reason to have the fall is to have a complication. I don't think she'll lose the baby, unless, by so losing, she becomes laser-focused on taking over the company as compensatory for the loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^what makes you think Shiv is early 30s? I assumed around 40. Kendall early 40s, Roman late 30s?

Kendall just had his big 40th birthday celebration last season. So he is 40. Roman is younger, so he's mid- to late 30s, and then Shiv is the youngest so she is early to mid-30s. I'd put her at 35 at the latest because I have a hard time believing the kids are less than 5 years apart in age -- given their family, I doubt their parents were together enough to make that happen.

A lot of people think Roman is the baby but Shiv is (and is part of what made Logan dote on her a bit more). Roman is just less mature. It actually makes sense in terms of attachment theory and childhood development -- Shiv is more mature because she received more positive attention as a child and was able to develop a positive sense of self-worth. Roman, as the middle child of three (they forget about Connor so I guess we will too) and the second son, was ignored and heavily criticized (and maybe hit) by his dad, had no opportunity to develop a sense of self in a nurturing family environment, so he's incredibly insecure and hides behind humor and sarcasm to mask the fact that he is in pretty much constant need of the validation he never received as a child.

Agree and it makes sense with Shiv’s career arc too, before she was a rising political star but I think if she was late 30s she would already have a more defined and powerful position. How old do we think Willa is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did Shiv need an amino? I don’t think she miscarried but that fall feels out of place otherwise.

To gauge whether or not she should get an abortion. She may have conflicting views on it, and if the child had birth defects, may have been an easy decision for her.

I think they wrote in the amnio because Hollywood constantly gets pregnancy and L&D wrong. See: every birth scene in a TV show or movie. Bringing up the amnio was a recognizable way for the audience (many who probably wouldn't recognize basic pregnancy terms) to pick up that she's pregnant. She's also very pregnant, the next sonogram is at 20 weeks, so she's at least 15 weeks along. The question is: who was she sleeping with 15 weeks ago?

I am going to give this show more credit than that for now and assume they know what an amnio is and also when it would normally be done and for what reasons. Shiv is early to mid-30s, which is young for an amnio if you don't have some kind of genetic history or concern. BUT Shiv is super rich and rich people play by very different rules with medical procedures. I could absolutely see her getting an amnio even if she's only 32 or 33, just to be cautious. And perhaps due to ambivalence about the baby, as a PP pointed out -- a problem on the amnio gives her an excuse to terminate (which, again, someone in Shiv's position could do even though she's further along because she's rich -- she could have a late term abortion if she wanted, she can do whatever she wants).

They also got the timing exactly right. You do an amnio between 15 and 20 weeks, and it sounds like her 20 week scan is coming up. I'm guessing Shiv Roy doesn't have to wait around for amnio results, so she probably had the procedure done in the last few days. Shiv's been late to things and looked a bit disheveled when she arrived over the last few episodes -- totally believable that she's been at the doctor's office (or puking her guts out).

I think it's probably Tom's baby because I don't get the impression Shiv has actually been sleeping with other people lately. She was enraged to hear that Tom was dating and possibly/probably sleeping with other women, which I am guessing is because she knew she was pregnant with Tom's baby and wanted to keep all her options as wide open as possible while she decided what to do. She will want to maintain control over the situation. But her dad's death is totally throwing a wrench in that. And now she's being pushed aside by her brothers at the company... she's trying to figure out how to play this to her advantage but the rules for business are all written for men, not women who are 20 weeks pregnant and separated from their husbands. The other women on the show married into money and used marriage/kids to secure their futures. Shiv already has money, she wants something else, and it's something that marriage/kids may be an obstacle to.

An amino is pretty invasive too but I guess it makes sense for Shiv to have a greater sense of control. I would’ve thought she would do the cell free DNA blood test already though.

I mean, a fictional character so we're speculating about stuff that didn't happen, but I would expect someone like Shiv to have it all done. Notice she kept calling her doctor Sharon, too. This isn't an ordinary OB-Gyn. It's some kind of rich person on call doctor, they probably do every test they want, send everything priority rush to a private lab. Wouldn't be surprised if the doctor comes to Shiv for some of these tests (but not amnio, you'd have to do that in a medical facility because they are risky and a mistake can cause miscarriage -- no doctor would mess around with that). But blood tests, DNA, gestational diabetes, etc.? I bet she could have those done in her living room before hoping on a jet to go meet her brothers. She's not scurrying over to a doctors office in midtown every week.