Math in Private School

[Anonymous]

A common complaint among private school parents I've spoken to is that the math programs are a weak link. I hear this from those (like me) who are STEM professionals. Almost everyone is very happy with their schools as a whole, but the math programs at private schools do not seem to be on par with the top math programs in public schools (VA and MD).

I even heard that private school students use extensive outside tutoring because the math instruction is so weak. I don't want to mention names of the schools I've heard this about, but it includes most of those discussed most frequently here. I don't hear about a lot of private school kids heading to elite STEM schools such as MIT or Cal Tech, so I'm coming to the conclusion that private school isn't the best choice for a student interested in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A common complaint among private school parents I've spoken to is that the math programs are a weak link. I hear this from those (like me) who are STEM professionals. Almost everyone is very happy with their schools as a whole, but the math programs at private schools do not seem to be on par with the top math programs in public schools (VA and MD).

I even heard that private school students use extensive outside tutoring because the math instruction is so weak. I don't want to mention names of the schools I've heard this about, but it includes most of those discussed most frequently here. I don't hear about a lot of private school kids heading to elite STEM schools such as MIT or Cal Tech, so I'm coming to the conclusion that private school isn't the best choice for a student interested in STEM.

Other than the anecdotal reports that math programs are weak, without going into what that specifically means, is there any empirical evidence out there (I don't know, haven't looked) that suggests students who attend private schools have worse or better outcomes in terms of STEM professions than students who attend public schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A common complaint among private school parents I've spoken to is that the math programs are a weak link. I hear this from those (like me) who are STEM professionals. Almost everyone is very happy with their schools as a whole, but the math programs at private schools do not seem to be on par with the top math programs in public schools (VA and MD).

I even heard that private school students use extensive outside tutoring because the math instruction is so weak. I don't want to mention names of the schools I've heard this about, but it includes most of those discussed most frequently here. I don't hear about a lot of private school kids heading to elite STEM schools such as MIT or Cal Tech, so I'm coming to the conclusion that private school isn't the best choice for a student interested in STEM.

No, it's not. Public STEM magnet is your answer if you have a kid at MIT/CalTech level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A common complaint among private school parents I've spoken to is that the math programs are a weak link. I hear this from those (like me) who are STEM professionals. Almost everyone is very happy with their schools as a whole, but the math programs at private schools do not seem to be on par with the top math programs in public schools (VA and MD).

I even heard that private school students use extensive outside tutoring because the math instruction is so weak. I don't want to mention names of the schools I've heard this about, but it includes most of those discussed most frequently here. I don't hear about a lot of private school kids heading to elite STEM schools such as MIT or Cal Tech, so I'm coming to the conclusion that private school isn't the best choice for a student interested in STEM.

or maybe this is the wrong market? wonder if it is different in Palo Alto or Seattle.

[Anonymous]

In many ways, STEM education is easier than the humanities.

There is a pretty straight forward lockstep progression in math at the pre-college level and well-established curricula. Typically, that ends with calculus in high school. At the local privates, a large proportion of those headed to elite colleges, including most future humanities majors, take calculus and the AP science classes. Only a minority of CalTech and MIT students enter having already taken a class on linear algebra or differential equations. Intro biology, chemistry, and physics are also very straightforward. At both the high school and college level, those are pretty much the same all over the country. So if I only cared about STEM, then the intro texts and labs can be had pretty much anywhere - public or private high school, state U or MIT.

In contrast, there is a huge variation in humanities and social sciences. The typical American high school graduate reads very little, writes very poorly, and has almost no sense of history. The gap between what is expected at an elite college and a flagship public university is huge. Part of the problem is that it is next to impossible to teach college level literature in public high schools because the books would be too controversial. History and government are limited to the most basic facts because it sets off ideological debates. Google the new AP US history curriculum to see what the constraints are. So private schools can offer so much more than public schools. Whether my child ends up in a STEM field or not, I want him to have a far richer education in literature, art, and the social sciences than can usually be found in public schools.

Complaints about private school math programs are usually at the lower school level. There is often a preference for traditional approaches and as much acceleration as possible. If you take a long view, all the best students end up pretty much in the same place in high school, even if they don't go into STEM fields. So focusing too much on when a child learns the multiplication tables or starts algebra is kind of pointless.

[Anonymous]

Math tutors are making a killing off private school kids. At least 80% of my DC's 11th grade math class was using the SAME tutor - who was smart enough to make more $ than the ineffective teacher assigned to that class.

[Anonymous]

Can anyone describe exactly how private school math is weak? Are you talking about the pace at which material is covered, or the instruction?

I guess there is no point really in asking this, though, because nobody will identify the school they are talking about, and every school is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math tutors are making a killing off private school kids. At least 80% of my DC's 11th grade math class was using the SAME tutor - who was smart enough to make more $ than the ineffective teacher assigned to that class.

Which school? Don't want to send DC there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone describe exactly how private school math is weak? Are you talking about the pace at which material is covered, or the instruction?

I guess there is no point really in asking this, though, because nobody will identify the school they are talking about, and every school is different.

Here's an example: using Everyday Math, with everyone working on grade level at the same pace, and no acceleration for students who are capable of working at a higher level.

[Anonymous]

Holton has an amazing math program. In Middle School their are 4 levels per class to accommodate all skill levels....too hard for me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone describe exactly how private school math is weak? Are you talking about the pace at which material is covered, or the instruction?

I guess there is no point really in asking this, though, because nobody will identify the school they are talking about, and every school is different.

Here's an example: using Everyday Math, with everyone working on grade level at the same pace, and no acceleration for students who are capable of working at a higher level.

Private schools use Everyday Math? I hated that math book.

[Anonymous]

oops - meant there - hah! Looks like English isn't my strength either.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the prior poster who noted math ultimately leads to a lock step progression in high school. My kids disliked ED math and the Turk math program as well in elementary school (which makes ED math look great by comparison). But at the end of the day, my senior was a strong math student through AP calc and expects to take higher level math in a very selective university. Grin and bear elementary school and just be sure you student is ready for Algebra I by at least 8th grade, 7th already accelerated. I know some take Alg I in 6th in public, but I've heard more bad than good long term results from that. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Complaints about private school math programs are usually at the lower school level. There is often a preference for traditional approaches and as much acceleration as possible. If you take a long view, all the best students end up pretty much in the same place in high school, even if they don't go into STEM fields. So focusing too much on when a child learns the multiplication tables or starts algebra is kind of pointless.

I agree with this -- often too much acceleration in the early grades leads to even more "gaps" and difficulties in later math. Students who have depth and understanding and who are able to do more than just follow the algorithm/rules tend to do better when they get to truly higher level math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Complaints about private school math programs are usually at the lower school level. There is often a preference for traditional approaches and as much acceleration as possible. If you take a long view, all the best students end up pretty much in the same place in high school, even if they don't go into STEM fields. So focusing too much on when a child learns the multiplication tables or starts algebra is kind of pointless.

I agree with this -- often too much acceleration in the early grades leads to even more "gaps" and difficulties in later math. Students who have depth and understanding and who are able to do more than just follow the algorithm/rules tend to do better when they get to truly higher level math.

Does Everyday Math lead to "depth and understanding"? Not necessarily. Does acceleration mean kids can only follow algorithms and rules? Not necessarily.
And how do you define "too much" acceleration? There's a lot of space between "no acceleration" and "too much" acceleration.