Math in Private School

[Anonymous]

Did your Sidwell kids also participate in outside contests and research projects?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been an Ivy interviewer in this area for a while. The public STEM magnets are pretty far ahead. A few privates (GDS) have opportunities for linear algebra/multivariate calculus. At Blair or TJ, kids can go farther, sometimes much farther.

One of the biggest differences is in the encouragement of independent research projects. The magnets encourage this, they have a lot of fancy equipment, and they have pipelines to internships that can get kids started. Just look at their Intel and Siemens results. It's not unusual to interview a TJ or Blair kid who has published something as a second or third author. Even non magnet public schools in MoCo have lots of kids doing research projects, since so many of the parents work at NIH or NIST that they can find out about opportunities. Independent projects signal initiative, planning commitment etc., which are all qualities that selective colleges are seeking. They are a real advantage for kids at admissions time.

On the first point, the independent schools in Montgomery Country for many years have offered multivariable calculus to seniors through a Consortium (since there weren't enough kids at any one of the schools usually to maintain the class). In order to be in it, the students generally need to be in Algebra I in 7th grade, although our DC, who was a year behind that, was offered the opportunity to move up in track by taking geometry in summer school. I know several seniors last year from St. Andrew's who took that multivariable class through the consortium last year. My understanding of TJ is that the way the kids get so accelerated in STEM is often through summer school. My friends child took freshman history during the summer before freshman year with many future TJ classmates, to make room for more required STEM classes as freshman. The same child and friends took high school chemistry the summer between Fresh and soph. year to be able to take AP chem as a sophomore. That doesn't take away from the fact these magnet kids are really smart, working hard, etc. but it is useful to understand how and demystify it a bit. It is probably harder to find room for original research in privates during the school year, but I do know some kids who have done this through pre-collegiate summer programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been an Ivy interviewer in this area for a while. The public STEM magnets are pretty far ahead. A few privates (GDS) have opportunities for linear algebra/multivariate calculus. At Blair or TJ, kids can go farther, sometimes much farther.

One of the biggest differences is in the encouragement of independent research projects. The magnets encourage this, they have a lot of fancy equipment, and they have pipelines to internships that can get kids started. Just look at their Intel and Siemens results. It's not unusual to interview a TJ or Blair kid who has published something as a second or third author. Even non magnet public schools in MoCo have lots of kids doing research projects, since so many of the parents work at NIH or NIST that they can find out about opportunities. Independent projects signal initiative, planning commitment etc., which are all qualities that selective colleges are seeking. They are a real advantage for kids at admissions time.

On the first point, the independent schools in Montgomery Country for many years have offered multivariable calculus to seniors through a Consortium (since there weren't enough kids at any one of the schools usually to maintain the class). In order to be in it, the students generally need to be in Algebra I in 7th grade, although our DC, who was a year behind that, was offered the opportunity to move up in track by taking geometry in summer school. I know several seniors last year from St. Andrew's who took that multivariable class through the consortium last year. My understanding of TJ is that the way the kids get so accelerated in STEM is often through summer school. My friends child took freshman history during the summer before freshman year with many future TJ classmates, to make room for more required STEM classes as freshman. The same child and friends took high school chemistry the summer between Fresh and soph. year to be able to take AP chem as a sophomore. That doesn't take away from the fact these magnet kids are really smart, working hard, etc. but it is useful to understand how and demystify it a bit. It is probably harder to find room for original research in privates during the school year, but I do know some kids who have done this through pre-collegiate summer programs.

Thanks for the information. Just to clarify. The TJ and Blair kids rarely do "original research" ... note they are not named 1st on the paper. They do internships and get their name on a paper. They neither wrote the paper, nor did the research.

[Anonymous]

Most research is a team sport. The first author generally directs and coordinates the research effort and the last author or most senior author (in general) runs the lab, raises funds and is the Principal Investigator writing the grants for the laboratory.

Occasionally there are high school students who are first authors on these research papers. Of note, there are many authors between the first and the senior author on a research paper who have provided contributions to the effort.

How many humanity-oriented or science-oriented private school students have any authorship in peer-reviewed journals?

[Anonymous]

To the poster discussing research who has never even done research in her life let alone even smelled the interior of a laboratory.

Do you even know the definition of research?
What is "original research" and who is doing "original research"?

[Anonymous]

The fact is that 20% of MIT's freshmen are from private schools, even though private school students are only 10% of the population. So there isn't much of a case to be made that private school students are ill prepared to get in.

[Anonymous]

For the record, most magnet kids take AP English, AP English Lit, AP World History, and similar courses. Many of them also came up through the Virginia AAP or MoCo ES and MS magnet systems, where there was a lot of emphasis on writing well.

A lot of the magnet kids are very bright polymaths. I don't have a kid in a STEM magnet, but I've seen the writing of ES kids who are now in STEM magnets. I was stunned. One of these kids in particular, who is now in a STEM magnet, was writing at the tender age of 8 in the style of PG Wodehouse.

Also, a 500 on the writing section of the SAT is going to keep a kid out of the top STEM schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
For the proponents of acceleration, what level of math do you expect a high school to be able to teach? TJHSST and the selective privates don't have math classes beyond 2nd year college math classes(linear algebra, differential equations, numerical analysis) because it is essentially impossible to find high school teachers able to teach material beyond that level. As another poster noted, if everyone ends up in the same place in high school, why stress about what they could do in 3rd grade?

I forgot to reply to this. To me it's not about "acceleration" in the sense of worrying about what math class a kid takes in middle or high school. It's more about enrichment for kids who have strong math abilities, and the purpose is more to help them develop a sense of themselves as mathematicians -- real math thinkers who can approach a problem many different ways. Successfully tackling greater challenges helps kids who are strong in math develop this sense, and builds their self-confidence in ways that just working on grade level does not.

To me it's no different from reading, and I have yet to see anyone here argue against acceleration and differentiation in reading.

[Anonymous]

Don't you think this is all about $$$.

There was a time when all the Ivys accepted whites with C averages. Their campuses were lilly-white. Jews, Blacks, and women with A averages were banned! Does the latter fact equal lack of preparation or rather lack of phenotype?

What percentage of Ivy, MIT, Stanford, highly selective colleges are made up of kids from private schools (still quite high)... Can you hear the banner and the big time hook of money, endowment, buildings, legacy, sibling, and pedigree despite the fact 90% of high secondary school students attend public school.

Sounds like the poster is lacking knowledge of the history of private schools in America and an ability for critical thinking ... a nouveau arrivee!

[Anonymous]

I forgot to reply to this. To me it's not about "acceleration" in the sense of worrying about what math class a kid takes in middle or high school. It's more about enrichment for kids who have strong math abilities, and the purpose is more to help them develop a sense of themselves as mathematicians -- real math thinkers who can approach a problem many different ways. Successfully tackling greater challenges helps kids who are strong in math develop this sense, and builds their self-confidence in ways that just working on grade level does not.

To me it's no different from reading, and I have yet to see anyone here argue against acceleration and differentiation in reading.

.... and music and sports ....


Somehow math is such a unique and highly complex task that mandates deliberate deceleration with pigeon-holed levels dictated soley by age, grade levels, and pubic hair. The piano, violin, chess, reading, track, basketball, tennis, squash and "fill in the blank" are obviously infinitely far less complex and demanding for restrictive triage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For the proponents of acceleration, what level of math do you expect a high school to be able to teach? TJHSST and the selective privates don't have math classes beyond 2nd year college math classes(linear algebra, differential equations, numerical analysis) because it is essentially impossible to find high school teachers able to teach material beyond that level. As another poster noted, if everyone ends up in the same place in high school, why stress about what they could do in 3rd grade?

Do you feel the same way about reading? All students should be instructed at the same level, should read at the same level in class, and do the same reading comprehension work?

I don't think that it matters whether your child can read before they start school or in kindergarten or in first grade. They will all be pretty strong readers by 3rd grade, unless they have serious learning challenges. Just because my DC was reading before starting JK didn't make him special. It just meant that reading was easy for him. He had lots of other things to learn. By the time he got to high school at a selective private, everyone had the basic skills and the question becomes who knows how to apply them to much harder materials and expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Holton has an amazing math program. In Middle School their are 4 levels per class to accommodate all skill levels....too hard for me!

I agree but I think it is 5 levels. Some 8th graders are taking Algebra 2 in a high school class. The rest are one Geometry Honors class, one Algebra I Honors class, one Algebra I (non-honors) and one pre-algebra class. I think that is pretty segregated and aggressive for math. They have the perk of having all 3 school levels under one roof and will move the kids for math if needed. I just assumed other private schools did this too. They also have after-school clubs for Coding and Robotics for middle schoolers.

In high school they offer a STEM scholars program. We picked this school because TJ is too far from us, and we are not fond of Blair as a whole. We like the all-girls school environment for a girl in STEM since the boys seem to out-number girls immensely and that is why girls (as a whole) start to shy away from the STEM focus. I didn't want that to happen to my daughter and so far she still loves it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most research is a team sport. The first author generally directs and coordinates the research effort and the last author or most senior author (in general) runs the lab, raises funds and is the Principal Investigator writing the grants for the laboratory.

Occasionally there are high school students who are first authors on these research papers. Of note, there are many authors between the first and the senior author on a research paper who have provided contributions to the effort.

How many humanity-oriented or science-oriented private school students have any authorship in peer-reviewed journals?

More than you think, nationwide... only a few locally. The winners and 2 runner ups of the Intel contest always do. The winner in 2012 actually invented an early detection method for Pancreatic cancer.

Having been the 3rd, 4th and 5th name on many publications I can tell you I was necessary but I in no way, shape or form am the brains behind the research. Yes, they could not have completed their research without my computer programming skills but there is a huge leap between being the 1st name on research and anything after.

Being an intern to an amazing scientist is very necessary to advance science and these kids are really smart but it is more about opportunity. Kids with less opportunity have less chance of being named on a paper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For the proponents of acceleration, what level of math do you expect a high school to be able to teach? TJHSST and the selective privates don't have math classes beyond 2nd year college math classes(linear algebra, differential equations, numerical analysis) because it is essentially impossible to find high school teachers able to teach material beyond that level. As another poster noted, if everyone ends up in the same place in high school, why stress about what they could do in 3rd grade?

Do you feel the same way about reading? All students should be instructed at the same level, should read at the same level in class, and do the same reading comprehension work?

I don't think that it matters whether your child can read before they start school or in kindergarten or in first grade. They will all be pretty strong readers by 3rd grade, unless they have serious learning challenges. Just because my DC was reading before starting JK didn't make him special. It just meant that reading was easy for him. He had lots of other things to learn. By the time he got to high school at a selective private, everyone had the basic skills and the question becomes who knows how to apply them to much harder materials and expectations.

So you're saying schools shouldn't differentiate in reading either?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holton has an amazing math program. In Middle School their are 4 levels per class to accommodate all skill levels....too hard for me!

I agree but I think it is 5 levels. Some 8th graders are taking Algebra 2 in a high school class. The rest are one Geometry Honors class, one Algebra I Honors class, one Algebra I (non-honors) and one pre-algebra class. I think that is pretty segregated and aggressive for math. They have the perk of having all 3 school levels under one roof and will move the kids for math if needed. I just assumed other private schools did this too. They also have after-school clubs for Coding and Robotics for middle schoolers.

In high school they offer a STEM scholars program. We picked this school because TJ is too far from us, and we are not fond of Blair as a whole. We like the all-girls school environment for a girl in STEM since the boys seem to out-number girls immensely and that is why girls (as a whole) start to shy away from the STEM focus. I didn't want that to happen to my daughter and so far she still loves it.

You had a choice between Blair in MCPS and TJ in VA? No, you didn't. Also, kids have to be accepted into a magnet for there to be an element ofchoice.