Why is the math so terrible? Can parents do anything?

[Anonymous]

We moved from another school district and I am very surprised at how easy the math is here. Its over a year behind the school system that we left. We didn't come from a famous, fancy school system. I have talked to many parents. There's pretty universal agreement that the math is terrible but nothing can be done about it. I tried asking the teacher and she agreed that the math is too easy for the majority of kids but its a new system and not up to her.

The principal tried to tell me that everyone loves the new math system. I pointed out that every parent I spoke to strongly disagreed. She changed to tell me then that not everyone has accepted yet that this is just the way math is now. I don't even know what that means!!! We're supposed to all accept its bad because it is?

[Anonymous]

So in your old community..on grade level students took algebra in 7th grade and advanced kids took it in 6th. That would be 1 year ahead of MCPS.

[Anonymous]

In MCPS, students in grade-level math take Algebra I in 8th grade and calculus in 12th grade.

If the math in the school system that you left is over a year ahead, does that mean that students in grade-level math take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade in that system?

[Anonymous]

What grades are your kids in?

[Anonymous]

Does MCPS allow advanced kids to take Calc in 11th grade? That's what I did back in the day. If so, what do they do after that? I took Multivariable Calc at our local state univ that happened to be in my town. Curious how they do it here. MC maybe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does MCPS allow advanced kids to take Calc in 11th grade? That's what I did back in the day. If so, what do they do after that? I took Multivariable Calc at our local state univ that happened to be in my town. Curious how they do it here. MC maybe?

Yes, above-grade-level students take calculus in 11th grade and then another AP math class in 12th grade. See here:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/math-curriculum-plan.aspx

[Anonymous]

You have two main cluster groups with the movement to change math in MCPS:

1) Kids now in Grade 5 (who have been guinea pigs with the new program since 3rd grade)

2) Kids who took Algebra 2.0 last year and Geometry 2.0 this year who are the older crop of guinea pigs.

* Kids taking Pre Calculus and above lucked out and dogged this major catastrophe. Kids younger than 5th grade have the benefit of the teachers and hopefully MCPS learning from their mistakes with the earlier roll outs to do better.

I unfortunately have had kids in both of the two main guinea pig groups. MCPS bulldozers out a program without adequate training for the teachers and resources for the classroom. Inherently, there are then instructional gaps as MCPS struggles to provide the tools for the classes. The curriculum is pieced milled out chapter by chapter, the old textbook does not align with the curriculum, and even the MCPS website lags behind so parents can pull off resources till MCPS gets their crap together. Meanwhile the school calendar trots along and kids are not being taught what they need to learn. For the older kids, last year's failing exam grades in Algebra are a trend destined to be repeated this year because the Geometry roll out was even more pitiful than the Algebra roll out. I know in fact, my child's teacher has been clueless and did not know what student learning tasks to teach for this entire marking period. No one is checking to see if the teachers are actually teaching what the students are expected to learn in the order it is expected to be taught. How can my child's class make up a quarter of the year's lost instruction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have two main cluster groups with the movement to change math in MCPS:

1) Kids now in Grade 5 (who have been guinea pigs with the new program since 3rd grade)

2) Kids who took Algebra 2.0 last year and Geometry 2.0 this year who are the older crop of guinea pigs.

* Kids taking Pre Calculus and above lucked out and dogged this major catastrophe. Kids younger than 5th grade have the benefit of the teachers and hopefully MCPS learning from their mistakes with the earlier roll outs to do better.

I unfortunately have had kids in both of the two main guinea pig groups. MCPS bulldozers out a program without adequate training for the teachers and resources for the classroom. Inherently, there are then instructional gaps as MCPS struggles to provide the tools for the classes. The curriculum is pieced milled out chapter by chapter, the old textbook does not align with the curriculum, and even the MCPS website lags behind so parents can pull off resources till MCPS gets their crap together. Meanwhile the school calendar trots along and kids are not being taught what they need to learn. For the older kids, last year's failing exam grades in Algebra are a trend destined to be repeated this year because the Geometry roll out was even more pitiful than the Algebra roll out. I know in fact, my child's teacher has been clueless and did not know what student learning tasks to teach for this entire marking period. No one is checking to see if the teachers are actually teaching what the students are expected to learn in the order it is expected to be taught. How can my child's class make up a quarter of the year's lost instruction?

I think you bring up a good point RE: the rollout. I've looked at the standards and I don't have a huge problem with them. I think MCPS's rollout of them was really bad. Hopefully they'll be better prepared next year when my daughter gets to Algebra.

[Anonymous]

They are definitely dumbing down the math and not tracking them anymore in elementary. So you are in a class with all sorts of math levels and you work in groups. It totally sucks and the teacher is pulled in a million directions.

My oldest was bored in K, but they switched to tracked math teachers starting in 1st and she went to the advanced Math 2 class, and then upped again in 4th to Math 6th and the Math 7th in 5th. She never had to be bussed to a Middle School either. There was 23 kids in her class. Then in Middle School and went to Algebra I in 6th and started high school taking Calc. If your kid is really smart in math, it is either Magnet or nothing now.

The funny thing is, half the parents complaining about how boring the curriculum is, redshirted their child. That is their fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are definitely dumbing down the math and not tracking them anymore in elementary. So you are in a class with all sorts of math levels and you work in groups. It totally sucks and the teacher is pulled in a million directions.

My oldest was bored in K, but they switched to tracked math teachers starting in 1st and she went to the advanced Math 2 class, and then upped again in 4th to Math 6th and the Math 7th in 5th. She never had to be bussed to a Middle School either. There was 23 kids in her class. Then in Middle School and went to Algebra I in 6th and started high school taking Calc. If your kid is really smart in math, it is either Magnet or nothing now.

The funny thing is, half the parents complaining about how boring the curriculum is, redshirted their child. That is their fault.

About dumbing down the math -- Under the old curriculum, grade-level math was Algebra I in 9th grade. Now it's Algebra I in 8th grade. In what way is this "dumbing down"?

About tracking -- Under the old curriculum, you were in a class with all sorts of reading levels and you worked in groups. Did it totally suck, and was the teacher pulled in a million directions?

Also about tracking -- it actually does exist in elementary school. It just does not exist in grades K-3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have two main cluster groups with the movement to change math in MCPS:

1) Kids now in Grade 5 (who have been guinea pigs with the new program since 3rd grade)

2) Kids who took Algebra 2.0 last year and Geometry 2.0 this year who are the older crop of guinea pigs.

* Kids taking Pre Calculus and above lucked out and dogged this major catastrophe. Kids younger than 5th grade have the benefit of the teachers and hopefully MCPS learning from their mistakes with the earlier roll outs to do better.

I unfortunately have had kids in both of the two main guinea pig groups. MCPS bulldozers out a program without adequate training for the teachers and resources for the classroom. Inherently, there are then instructional gaps as MCPS struggles to provide the tools for the classes. The curriculum is pieced milled out chapter by chapter, the old textbook does not align with the curriculum, and even the MCPS website lags behind so parents can pull off resources till MCPS gets their crap together. Meanwhile the school calendar trots along and kids are not being taught what they need to learn. For the older kids, last year's failing exam grades in Algebra are a trend destined to be repeated this year because the Geometry roll out was even more pitiful than the Algebra roll out. I know in fact, my child's teacher has been clueless and did not know what student learning tasks to teach for this entire marking period. No one is checking to see if the teachers are actually teaching what the students are expected to learn in the order it is expected to be taught. How can my child's class make up a quarter of the year's lost instruction?

I think you bring up a good point RE: the rollout. I've looked at the standards and I don't have a huge problem with them. I think MCPS's rollout of them was really bad. Hopefully they'll be better prepared next year when my daughter gets to Algebra.

What would you do if you were in one of the hundreds if not thousands of school districts in the country that don't provide any curriculum to teachers - they just hand them the state standards (now Common Core) and say, "Ok, go!" Sometimes the grass is not always greener...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are definitely dumbing down the math and not tracking them anymore in elementary. So you are in a class with all sorts of math levels and you work in groups. It totally sucks and the teacher is pulled in a million directions.

My oldest was bored in K, but they switched to tracked math teachers starting in 1st and she went to the advanced Math 2 class, and then upped again in 4th to Math 6th and the Math 7th in 5th. She never had to be bussed to a Middle School either. There was 23 kids in her class. Then in Middle School and went to Algebra I in 6th and started high school taking Calc. If your kid is really smart in math, it is either Magnet or nothing now.

The funny thing is, half the parents complaining about how boring the curriculum is, redshirted their child. That is their fault.

About dumbing down the math -- Under the old curriculum, grade-level math was Algebra I in 9th grade. Now it's Algebra I in 8th grade. In what way is this "dumbing down"?

About tracking -- Under the old curriculum, you were in a class with all sorts of reading levels and you worked in groups. Did it totally suck, and was the teacher pulled in a million directions?

Also about tracking -- it actually does exist in elementary school. It just does not exist in grades K-3.

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

Tracking - yes it is just as dumb to not track in all aspects of school, in reading groups as well. The kids are handed busy work while all of that is going on. I volunteer, I see it. The reading groups meet AT MOST once a week, the smarter groups meet less. It is not productive and again, the smarter kids get less.

Tracking used to be 1-5 and in-school. Now SOME kids get pulled out for compacted math in 4/5 and many are asked to take a bus to a middle school if they want it. Again, another way smart kids get the shaft.

The only other choice is to apply for HGC but again, they have to be bussed to another school. One more way the smart kids are held back unless they have family who can do all this going back/forth to schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

It is dumbed down for the smarter kids, yes. And at my daughter's ES school there were over 20 of 97 kids that went on to Algebra 1 years ago. It wasn't that small of a number. There are just many more uneducated children coming into the MCPS system these days and shrinking the percentage of these kids. Not the actual number but percentage. But that is not those kid's fault but yet they have to pay that price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

It is dumbed down for the smarter kids, yes. And at my daughter's ES school there were over 20 of 97 kids that went on to Algebra 1 years ago. It wasn't that small of a number. There are just many more uneducated children coming into the MCPS system these days and shrinking the percentage of these kids. Not the actual number but percentage. But that is not those kid's fault but yet they have to pay that price.

You're right. It wasn't that small a number. But then when those extra-accelerated students got to high school, a lot of them were unprepared. Which is why MCPS decided that it should be a very small number, BEFORE Curriculum 2.0.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122202064.html