Why is the math so terrible? Can parents do anything?

[Anonymous]

What county does it better?

Arlington, Fairfax

Heck even Howard and Frederick are doing better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

It is dumbed down for the smarter kids, yes. And at my daughter's ES school there were over 20 of 97 kids that went on to Algebra 1 years ago. It wasn't that small of a number. There are just many more uneducated children coming into the MCPS system these days and shrinking the percentage of these kids. Not the actual number but percentage. But that is not those kid's fault but yet they have to pay that price.

From what I understand, the vast majority of kids that were tracked too quickly were missing basic math facts. There are *very* few kids that are so good in math that they should take Algebra 1 in 6th grade. For most kids that are good in math, taking Algebra 1 in 7th is appropriate.

I also wonder how many of those kids that took Algebra in 6th grade also were tutored outside school (at home or other). I know there are those that didn't. But I'm thinking most kids probably had to have help outside school.

I agree. My daughter went to an HGC; she routinely scores at the 99th percentile on the MAP-M test; she's on track for Algebra in 7th grade. In other words she's a VERY good math student. I also don't think she would be ready for Algebra in 6th. I think the vast majority of kids who did Algebra in 6th had a lot of outside tutoring. I'm sure there are math prodigies that could handle it in 6th (or sooner) and I'd guess that MCPS would accommodate those few students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What county does it better?

Arlington, Fairfax

Heck even Howard and Frederick are doing better.

How do you know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What county does it better?

Arlington, Fairfax

Heck even Howard and Frederick are doing better.

How do you know?

Not the PP but you can check all curriculums online, so maybe that way?

My problem is not so much the 2.0 (which don't get me wrong, it IS horrible) but that they now do differentiation at all math levels until 6th grade. I don't see how putting kids in all levels in each class and breaking them up into 3-4 different groups within a class is better than having 3-4 class of EACH level for each teacher to teach. It is just to be politically correct and keep the diversity in every classroom but it is more work for the teachers, is confusing to the kids, the smarter ones are left alone all the time, and honestly, by 2nd grade everyone knows who is in what level anyway. It really drives me insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

It is dumbed down for the smarter kids, yes. And at my daughter's ES school there were over 20 of 97 kids that went on to Algebra 1 years ago. It wasn't that small of a number. There are just many more uneducated children coming into the MCPS system these days and shrinking the percentage of these kids. Not the actual number but percentage. But that is not those kid's fault but yet they have to pay that price.

You're right. It wasn't that small a number. But then when those extra-accelerated students got to high school, a lot of them were unprepared. Which is why MCPS decided that it should be a very small number, BEFORE Curriculum 2.0.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122202064.html

Do the math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What county does it better?

Arlington, Fairfax

Heck even Howard and Frederick are doing better.

How do you know?

Not the PP but you can check all curriculums online, so maybe that way?

My problem is not so much the 2.0 (which don't get me wrong, it IS horrible) but that they now do differentiation at all math levels until 6th grade. I don't see how putting kids in all levels in each class and breaking them up into 3-4 different groups within a class is better than having 3-4 class of EACH level for each teacher to teach. It is just to be politically correct and keep the diversity in every classroom but it is more work for the teachers, is confusing to the kids, the smarter ones are left alone all the time, and honestly, by 2nd grade everyone knows who is in what level anyway. It really drives me insane.

This has been my experience also the past 3 years in MoCo. It makes no sense to have all these different groups in the same classroom. The kids who need extra help often get left behind because the class is moving too fast for them. And, the kids who are 'ahead' are left alone with extra worksheets to keep them busy after they finish the required word. I have volunteered in my kids K/1st/2nd grad classroom and have gotten to know her teachers. They've all been great teachers, so it's not an issue with the teachers, IMO. Why not separate out the kids? Have extra aides for the kids who need more help.

[Anonymous]

Its not really differentiation. My son gets the enrichment and fast group work but its really just more worksheets doing the same thing. Rarely is it ever much more difficult. Its just there to keep him in his seat. The teacher is great and she knows how math oriented he is but there isn't anything that she can do.

What bugs me is that reward for being great at math isn't getting to move on or doing something more interesting, the reward is doing more boring worksheets. At some point he's going to figure out that he's basically being punished with more boring sheets for finishing early and knowing the concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In MCPS, students in grade-level math take Algebra I in 8th grade and calculus in 12th grade.

If the math in the school system that you left is over a year ahead, does that mean that students in grade-level math take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade in that system?

Coach in 12th grade!? Most HS have that earlier as colleges want it done and n the rand iron, graded by nov/dec college apps deadlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In MCPS, students in grade-level math take Algebra I in 8th grade and calculus in 12th grade.

If the math in the school system that you left is over a year ahead, does that mean that students in grade-level math take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade in that system?

Coach in 12th grade!? Most HS have that earlier as colleges want it done and n the rand iron, graded by nov/dec college apps deadlines.

um... huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its not really differentiation. My son gets the enrichment and fast group work but its really just more worksheets doing the same thing. Rarely is it ever much more difficult. Its just there to keep him in his seat. The teacher is great and she knows how math oriented he is but there isn't anything that she can do.

What bugs me is that reward for being great at math isn't getting to move on or doing something more interesting, the reward is doing more boring worksheets. At some point he's going to figure out that he's basically being punished with more boring sheets for finishing early and knowing the concept.

P for proficient! Good enough for MoCo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What county does it better?

Arlington, Fairfax

Heck even Howard and Frederick are doing better.

How do you know?

Not the PP but you can check all curriculums online, so maybe that way?

My problem is not so much the 2.0 (which don't get me wrong, it IS horrible) but that they now do differentiation at all math levels until 6th grade. I don't see how putting kids in all levels in each class and breaking them up into 3-4 different groups within a class is better than having 3-4 class of EACH level for each teacher to teach. It is just to be politically correct and keep the diversity in every classroom but it is more work for the teachers, is confusing to the kids, the smarter ones are left alone all the time, and honestly, by 2nd grade everyone knows who is in what level anyway. It really drives me insane.

I could not agree more. They need to do this for all core subjects not just Math. I know many people don't like "tracking" but what ends up happening is bored kids in elem and middle school (in many middle schools all kids take "advanced" science and world studies) and in high school it leads to a real rat race with the smart kids forced to take a bunch of AP classes and exams because most of the rest of the school is taking honors classes. If most kids are in advanced and honors classes they cease to be advanced. The kids who are struggling have a tough time and the kids who are advanced get a watered down experience.

[Anonymous]

" If most kids are in advanced and honors classes they cease to be advanced. "

yep. all kids do not learn at the same rate. just like not all kids are the same in music, athletics, etc. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Kids at all levels should be challenged but it's a simple fact that challenge for kids that take longer to learn concepts is not going to be the same as for kids who get things quicker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved from another school district and I am very surprised at how easy the math is here. Its over a year behind the school system that we left. We didn't come from a famous, fancy school system. I have talked to many parents. There's pretty universal agreement that the math is terrible but nothing can be done about it. I tried asking the teacher and she agreed that the math is too easy for the majority of kids but its a new system and not up to her.

The principal tried to tell me that everyone loves the new math system. I pointed out that every parent I spoke to strongly disagreed. She changed to tell me then that not everyone has accepted yet that this is just the way math is now. I don't even know what that means!!! We're supposed to all accept its bad because it is?

I understand and empathize with your concerns.

I’m sorry because I know this will step on toes but it seems Common Core (CC) advocates are ‘true believers’. They deny controversy and plug ahead confident in their opinion but absent verifiable evidence. Obviously CC is controversy by the mere fact many are opposed. What is disturbing to me is no scientific evidence shows curriculum improves the quality of math instruction. I have yet to see peer reviewed reproducible studies showing their efficacy. The anecdotes on this string from CC supporters are scientifically worthless.

We need to all put our heads together and determine what ideas are valid and which are not. So far it seems we are being a bunch of big heads filled with grandiose ideas. Our children’s education is just too precious to be placed upon the whim of ego, political ideology and expediency.

[Anonymous]

What bugs me is that reward for being great at math isn't getting to move on or doing something more interesting, the reward is doing more boring worksheets. At some point he's going to figure out that he's basically being punished with more boring sheets for finishing early and knowing the concept.

^^^ This exactly! I think is one of the most damaging aspects of the curriculum. Bright kids are going to learn to aim for the middle because being above level just brings more of the same boring worksheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common core aims to help those that are terrible at math but good at reading by sacrificing those that are naturally gifted at math. It is failing both groups.

How do the Common Core standards fail students who are naturally gifted at math?

I can see how lower reading/writing skilled students would be forced to relearn how to do math in a verbal way and fail at it.