Why is the math so terrible? Can parents do anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I just say "decomposing"? 3rd grade math--insane! Am considering private school to get away from this madness.

It's ok, PP. If you don't like the word "decomposing", you can say "borrowing". The Common Core Math Police won't come to get you.

Actually, decomposing and borrowing are different.

What is the difference?

[Anonymous]

Personally, I don't think the objections to 2.0 have much to do with the older years...but in the lower grades (K-4, until the extended/compacted options are available), if a child is ready for more, that child just has to wait. If a child enters Kindergarten already doing first grade math, that child will not get the first grade math concepts. Even if it is important to go through all of the concepts int he curriculum, some children are ready to pace through that quickly to get to a higher level. The approach to teaching the concepts isn't necessarily the problem, or even the goal of 2.0.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Which of the Common Core standards involve "dumbing down"? Can you provide some examples, please?

The way MCPS is implementing CC is a dumbed down version, if you have a child in MCPS you would see that.

Common Core standards came about because Obama and his Dept of Ed appointees didn't like how some states (mississippi) had lower standards, state tests, etc than other states (maryland). So he federalized the standards in order to "make each state the same." And tests will be the same across each state, nice and standardized, easy peasy to compare progress and divvy up budgets.

It was a big, expensive project, the standards/bars for each grade were released, and each state that signs up (implements it as they wish) and takes the fed tests receives money per public student.
Most states signed up. MD went forth and did a big, expensive study with Pearsons on how to implement the Common Core standards and here we are with Curriculum 2.0.

Now there is less leeway for a state or county or school to have a curriculum geared towards its actual student body, whether than be accelerated, slow, LD, ESOL, etc. Who knows how historically strong school districts or states will fare. Worse, who knows how the students will fare. For them it is a global game, not fed funds game.

[Anonymous]

Common Core sucks serious monkey ass. Ripe monkey ass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Common Core standards came about because Obama and his Dept of Ed appointees didn't like how some states (mississippi) had lower standards, state tests, etc than other states (maryland). So he federalized the standards in order to "make each state the same." And tests will be the same across each state, nice and standardized, easy peasy to compare progress and divvy up budgets.

No. This is not correct. The Common Core standards come from the State Governors Association and the Council of Chief State School Officers. They were not a federal project. The Obama administration was not involved in the development of the Common Core standards.

http://www.corestandards.org/about-the-standards/development-process/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

It is dumbed down for the smarter kids, yes. And at my daughter's ES school there were over 20 of 97 kids that went on to Algebra 1 years ago. It wasn't that small of a number. There are just many more uneducated children coming into the MCPS system these days and shrinking the percentage of these kids. Not the actual number but percentage. But that is not those kid's fault but yet they have to pay that price.

From what I understand, the vast majority of kids that were tracked too quickly were missing basic math facts. There are *very* few kids that are so good in math that they should take Algebra 1 in 6th grade. For most kids that are good in math, taking Algebra 1 in 7th is appropriate.

I also wonder how many of those kids that took Algebra in 6th grade also were tutored outside school (at home or other). I know there are those that didn't. But I'm thinking most kids probably had to have help outside school.

That is what MCPS is telling you is the reason why. I do not believe it. I honestly think there are kids that can do math like this if it is taught correctly and with a group of hard working kids who apply themselves. My daughter did not have a tutor. Never did, hopefully never will. Her friends did not either that I know of. I am not saying everyone should be taking Algebra 1 as quickly as possible. I am just saying they should not, not let kids move ahead if they are ready to do so.

I don't need MCPS to tell me this. I can see it by observing my kids and others. My DC is pretty advanced in math, too - in compacted math. Perhaps where you live there is a cluster of super smart kids, but as I said, *most* kids who were pushed too early probably weren't ready as *most* smart kids aren't that advanced in math. People have stated this before - a large public school cannot meet *every* child's needs. It is for the majority. The very advanced or very slow kids get left behind. Yes, it's a shame, but a public school is not your kid's tutor. I have heard from a teacher that if your ES child is super smart at math, there is an opportunity to take a math class in a HS. But again, most smart kids aren't at that level.

MCPS math tracking for the majority in 2.0 is already above the nation's standards, with Alg 1 by 8th grade. Some kids may be able to do more, but probably not that much more, at least not without help at home. So really, it doesn't make sense to push them that hard.

Yeah, let's not push our kids. We'll let the Asians and Europeans do that. After all, America is #1. Future is secure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That is what MCPS is telling you is the reason why. I do not believe it. I honestly think there are kids that can do math like this if it is taught correctly and with a group of hard working kids who apply themselves. My daughter did not have a tutor. Never did, hopefully never will. Her friends did not either that I know of. I am not saying everyone should be taking Algebra 1 as quickly as possible. I am just saying they should not, not let kids move ahead if they are ready to do so.

I don't need MCPS to tell me this. I can see it by observing my kids and others. My DC is pretty advanced in math, too - in compacted math. Perhaps where you live there is a cluster of super smart kids, but as I said, *most* kids who were pushed too early probably weren't ready as *most* smart kids aren't that advanced in math. People have stated this before - a large public school cannot meet *every* child's needs. It is for the majority. The very advanced or very slow kids get left behind. Yes, it's a shame, but a public school is not your kid's tutor. I have heard from a teacher that if your ES child is super smart at math, there is an opportunity to take a math class in a HS. But again, most smart kids aren't at that level.

MCPS math tracking for the majority in 2.0 is already above the nation's standards, with Alg 1 by 8th grade. Some kids may be able to do more, but probably not that much more, at least not without help at home. So really, it doesn't make sense to push them that hard.

Yeah, let's not push our kids. We'll let the Asians and Europeans do that. After all, America is #1. Future is secure.

PP - the suicide rate amongst teens in China/Korea/Japan is very high due to the immense academic stress and pressures. There's been a rash of suicides by high achieving teens in the DMV area, too. Maybe there were other factors involved for these teens, IDK, but I do know that pushing kids close to their breaking point is not how I want to raise my kids. Also, in Korea, kids as young as 1st grade go to after school tutoring classes for 2+ hours/day. They also go to school on Saturday, I mean public schools, not after school tutoring (I think it's every other Saturday now because the gov't is trying to bring some balance in the kids' lives). The parents, usually the moms, pretty much live for their kids education. You can google several articles about them.

And in Europe, they don't really push their kids. Quite the opposite. The countries in Europe that scored high on the PISA test, for the most part, are socialist countries that provide a tremendous amount of support to families. Some of those countries offer free college education. We don't have that kind of support system here. They also pay and respect their teachers a lot more than we do here.

I'm not saying we shouldn't expect more from our kids. But don't think the Asian school models are so great. And if you want the northern European school models, well, that would take an act of our illustrious leaders to turn our country into a Socialist country modeled after West/Northern Europe.

[Anonymous]

If everybody on this forum emails Starr's office and the BOE they would have to do something eventually. Seriously, it's easy to write and voice your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can claim the track is "projected" on average to be ahead by one year but it still does not benefit the smart kids. You are no longer allowed to take Algebra I in 6th grade. They dumb down the curriculum in elementary school so you can not make that pathway.

If you're saying that the entire math curriculum has been "dumbed down" because a very small number of students who previously would have taken Algebra I in 6th grade and calculus in 10th grade now must take Algebra I in 7th grade and calculus in 11th grade -- well, ok. But I disagree with you.

It is dumbed down for the smarter kids, yes. And at my daughter's ES school there were over 20 of 97 kids that went on to Algebra 1 years ago. It wasn't that small of a number. There are just many more uneducated children coming into the MCPS system these days and shrinking the percentage of these kids. Not the actual number but percentage. But that is not those kid's fault but yet they have to pay that price.

That's rare.

When my son was at Westland, I was in the office one day and happened to see the clipboard of kids who rode the bus to BCC in Algebra 2 (the kids who would have taken Algebra 1 in 6th). The list was maybe 12 kids, or about 1% of the student body. Now, there might have been more kids who took Algebra 1 in sixth and repeated a class along the way somewhere, but of kids who started on that track, and stayed on that track, there were 12 kids.

What's your point? That those 12 kids don't count? Seems to me that if they're ready and willing, we should teach them. And if it's just 12 kids, it doesn't seem that logistically hard to continue to provide that.

My kid is not in that group of 12, but to me, supporting them is critical if we want smart Americans to create the next Apple, Facebook, etc in 10 or 20 years. Then our kids can work for one if the 12. Otherwise we can just outsource everything to India and China.

[Anonymous]

Apple and Facebook and Google come from brains and creativity at leas as much as academic rigor. Sergei Brin went to school in PG County. I believe his school had some good programs but it wasn't a W school. We should be making sure our kids aren't so pressured with producing results that there is no time in school for creative projects, down time, social time, etc. Schools in Finland, best schools in the world, have a huge focus on social time.

[Anonymous]

I am a kid and Math sucks. I am learning area and perimeter and how to add decimals in my 6th grade math class. I wanted to at the very least move up to PRE ALGEBRA and they would not allow it because the teacher basically just judged you by whether you got a 30/30 or a 25/30 on a math test. Shocking truth: SOME PEOPLE JUST AREN'T GOOD AT TESTS. Also, the pre-algebra cirriculum is still pretty basic stuff I already know. I am already doing algebra 1 on my own and they basically just want to help the struggling kids, require poor cirriculum, and refuse to meet advanced student's needs. Absolutely dreadful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a kid and Math sucks. I am learning area and perimeter and how to add decimals in my 6th grade math class. I wanted to at the very least move up to PRE ALGEBRA and they would not allow it because the teacher basically just judged you by whether you got a 30/30 or a 25/30 on a math test. Shocking truth: SOME PEOPLE JUST AREN'T GOOD AT TESTS. Also, the pre-algebra cirriculum is still pretty basic stuff I already know. I am already doing algebra 1 on my own and they basically just want to help the struggling kids, require poor cirriculum, and refuse to meet advanced student's needs. Absolutely dreadful.

You are a parent who hates 2.0 math and are pretending to be a kid. No 11/12 yr old says "absolutely dreadful" unless they live in the UK. You are pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a kid and Math sucks. I am learning area and perimeter and how to add decimals in my 6th grade math class. I wanted to at the very least move up to PRE ALGEBRA and they would not allow it because the teacher basically just judged you by whether you got a 30/30 or a 25/30 on a math test. Shocking truth: SOME PEOPLE JUST AREN'T GOOD AT TESTS. Also, the pre-algebra curriculum is still pretty basic stuff I already know. I am already doing algebra 1 on my own and they basically just want to help the struggling kids, require poor curriculum, and refuse to meet advanced student's needs. Absolutely dreadful.

You are a parent who hates 2.0 math and are pretending to be a kid. No 11/12 yr old says "absolutely dreadful" unless they live in the UK. You are pathetic.

Or a kid who is a "Harry Potter" fan. Love the "Absolutely dreadful" comment!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a kid and Math sucks. I am learning area and perimeter and how to add decimals in my 6th grade math class. I wanted to at the very least move up to PRE ALGEBRA and they would not allow it because the teacher basically just judged you by whether you got a 30/30 or a 25/30 on a math test. Shocking truth: SOME PEOPLE JUST AREN'T GOOD AT TESTS. Also, the pre-algebra cirriculum is still pretty basic stuff I already know. I am already doing algebra 1 on my own and they basically just want to help the struggling kids, require poor cirriculum, and refuse to meet advanced student's needs. Absolutely dreadful.

There isn't PRE ALGEBRA in MCPS, as far as I know.

Also the Math 6 curriculum does not cover area and perimeter in the first marking period.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/math/middle/math6/PARENT%20WEBSITE.CCSS.Math6.MP1.CourseOutline(2).pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Apple and Facebook and Google come from brains and creativity at leas as much as academic rigor. Sergei Brin went to school in PG County. I believe his school had some good programs but it wasn't a W school. We should be making sure our kids aren't so pressured with producing results that there is no time in school for creative projects, down time, social time, etc. Schools in Finland, best schools in the world, have a huge focus on social time.

Sergei Brin went to Eleanor Roosevelt. I believe he was in the magnet program, the PG equivalent to Blair. I would say that is better than any W school.