Study: "Discussions of D.C. public school options in an online forum" (yes, this one)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

is this a facebook group for parents who have their kids in pods? lol. I couldn’t put my kid in a pod because we can’t afford it and he has SN. my real answer to the pod dilemma is that dcps needs to reopen asap but you probably think that is racist too.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link and the summary. I haven't read beyond the summary and won't comment until I do.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/we-all-want-whats-best-for-our-kids/

Combining data from the online parent forum, commonly known as “DC Urban Moms,” and publicly available school data, this paper explores how an online community, one that appears to be dominated by privileged parents, discusses its local school system.

The results suggest that if there is a market for schools in the District, the commenters on DC Urban Moms are participating in a highly segregated version of it. A large percentage of schools in the District are almost never discussed on the forum, and those rarely mentioned schools have higher rates of poverty and serve students that are almost exclusively Black. The inattention to these schools can be explained only in part by the city’s neighborhood segregation. Moreover, the wealthiest and whitest schools not only have more thorough consideration of their academic and extracurricular offerings, but conversations about these schools are also more likely to refer, rather than to demographic categories, to the people that make up the schools, using words like “moms,” “children,” “families,” and “teachers.” The individuals attending lesser-attention schools are thus doubly invisible to the DC Urban Moms participants. Finally, much of the discussion on the forum focuses on how to gain access to the relatively narrow band of preferred schools. The two mechanisms of school access, residence and the lottery, are not seen as competing strategies, but rather as systems to be used in tandem, in ways that give well-off parents repeated opportunities to self-segregate.

Though school diversity is no panacea for the societal ills that stem from centuries of systemic racism and economic exploitation, the findings present a challenge for opponents of school segregation—and its attendant resource hoarding—and for the hope of a more equal and integrated society.

I think it's a well done study and demonstrates how social media - in particular, specialized forums such as this one - functions in practice. No matter how well motivated the creator of a platform may have been, social media platforms are largely tools that reinforce the existing views held by posters.

Many of us only found DCUM and began to post when we saw it was the single biggest source of misinformation about our local public schools. We then get hooked and find that we end up contributing to this phenomenon as much as counteracting it.

false. DCUM disseminates news on schools that were underenrolled with white families and this results in increased enrollment. payne is a good example.

[Anonymous]

Can we create a separate thread where everyone who wants to accuse each other of being racist can gather? And leave the rest of us alone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

question for you - would you send your kid to Eastern High? Why or why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

Except is there any evidence that schools in DC are increasingly segregated? what I see on DCUM is parents exchanging information about schools and using it to pick schools that fit their needs - and these schools are much more integrated than most white kids attend. Plenty of parents learn about JO Wilson, Two Rivers, Stuart Hobson, Payne, myriad charters, and enroll their kids there. Is your argument is that white parents should be lotterying to get OOB seats in Ward 7 and 8?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

Except is there any evidence that schools in DC are increasingly segregated? what I see on DCUM is parents exchanging information about schools and using it to pick schools that fit their needs - and these schools are much more integrated than most white kids attend. Plenty of parents learn about JO Wilson, Two Rivers, Stuart Hobson, Payne, myriad charters, and enroll their kids there. Is your argument is that white parents should be lotterying to get OOB seats in Ward 7 and 8?

... other schools that DCUM probably operated to get UMC buy-in are seaton, garrison, langley ... all IB schools that have become increasingly integrated over the years I’ve been on DCUM. In fact, I’d bet money that an actual social scientist who analyzed DCUM postings about the subset of schools that have increased in integration over time would be able to theorize that DCUM *increases* integration.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

This is what it boils down to:

Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school?

This statement clearly displays just how uninformed you are about the people with whom you are trying to engage. The vast majority of the posters in this forum do want to do what's best for their kids AND consider their assumptions and biases. You simply cannot dispute that most of the schools that are popular in this forum are objectively "good" by most definitions of good. There are a few blindspots and addressing those blindspots would be helpful. But, you show no interest in being helpful. Your only interest is to shame us.

I really don't now how you can expect people to change without being able to offer any ideas about how they should change. If you don't know the answer, why do you expect others to know it? This is plain common sense. Don't you think that it might be possible that people have struggled with the moral and ethnical issues, reflected about them, but still concluded that their choice was the best despite that it wasn't perfect?

I am happy to work with you to improve the disparities in DC public schools to the extend that I have any ability to do that at all (and I suspect my ability is very limited). But you are going to have to move beyond the name-calling and shaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

Except is there any evidence that schools in DC are increasingly segregated? what I see on DCUM is parents exchanging information about schools and using it to pick schools that fit their needs - and these schools are much more integrated than most white kids attend. Plenty of parents learn about JO Wilson, Two Rivers, Stuart Hobson, Payne, myriad charters, and enroll their kids there. Is your argument is that white parents should be lotterying to get OOB seats in Ward 7 and 8?

... other schools that DCUM probably operated to get UMC buy-in are seaton, garrison, langley ... all IB schools that have become increasingly integrated over the years I’ve been on DCUM. In fact, I’d bet money that an actual social scientist who analyzed DCUM postings about the subset of schools that have increased in integration over time would be able to theorize that DCUM *increases* integration.

oh and let’s add Van Ness to that list ...another majority black school with a huge buzz created by DCUM and as a result reflects neighborhood demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

Except is there any evidence that schools in DC are increasingly segregated? what I see on DCUM is parents exchanging information about schools and using it to pick schools that fit their needs - and these schools are much more integrated than most white kids attend. Plenty of parents learn about JO Wilson, Two Rivers, Stuart Hobson, Payne, myriad charters, and enroll their kids there. Is your argument is that white parents should be lotterying to get OOB seats in Ward 7 and 8?

... other schools that DCUM probably operated to get UMC buy-in are seaton, garrison, langley ... all IB schools that have become increasingly integrated over the years I’ve been on DCUM. In fact, I’d bet money that an actual social scientist who analyzed DCUM postings about the subset of schools that have increased in integration over time would be able to theorize that DCUM *increases* integration.

Eye-Roll - DCUM operates nothing but conjucture.

[Anonymous]

The main issue here isn't race. The fundamental problem is that most schools in DC are garbage (sorry, but it's true). And there's way more people who want to send their kids to non-garbage schools than can be accommodated.

If more schools around here were halfway decent, people would not spend so much time worrying about which school their kids will attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

You fundamentally misunderstand the point of reports like these. It's descriptive; the goal is to describe a problem, not to offer solutions in the same report. I was patient in several earlier posts in trying to explain this, but you have doubled down on your complaints. You don't like that your site has been portrayed in this light (which is understandable) and so have characterized the report as shaming and name-calling, instead of perhaps considering some of the points made. White people do indeed make decisions influenced by racial dynamics as discussed in prior research; this is uncontroversial.

It is frustrating because you are completing rigid in your defensiveness and will cede nothing, over several days of posting. Perhaps it's possible that parents want to do what's best for their kids AND their decisions are impacted by unconscious or conscious biases and assumptions about what makes a good school? I'm a black parent who has visited this site for years, and the racism and classism is entirely clear to me and others, some of whom I know have stopped even visiting this site. I'm not sure what else to say at this point except good luck in complaining about what you see as unfair treatment instead of considering some of the issues raised.

Except is there any evidence that schools in DC are increasingly segregated? what I see on DCUM is parents exchanging information about schools and using it to pick schools that fit their needs - and these schools are much more integrated than most white kids attend. Plenty of parents learn about JO Wilson, Two Rivers, Stuart Hobson, Payne, myriad charters, and enroll their kids there. Is your argument is that white parents should be lotterying to get OOB seats in Ward 7 and 8?

... other schools that DCUM probably operated to get UMC buy-in are seaton, garrison, langley ... all IB schools that have become increasingly integrated over the years I’ve been on DCUM. In fact, I’d bet money that an actual social scientist who analyzed DCUM postings about the subset of schools that have increased in integration over time would be able to theorize that DCUM *increases* integration.

Eye-Roll - DCUM operates nothing but conjucture.

So if that's accurate, DCUM doesn't do anything to further segregation in the city. I would agree with that. But then the study is wrong; do you agree?

If we take the premise from the report that white people influence other white people's choices on where to send their kids, and that DCUM is a vehicle for this information spread, I could 100% believe that DCUM is actually furthering integration of certain schools. People EOTP are more likely to be the ones lotterying out of the IB schools (I think data shows that's true). EOTP is desperate to find a reasonable school. A school gets a white "stamp of approval" and yeah, you'll see more white families lottery to go there. It's fun, because it's using a racist idea -- white people wanting to be around other white people -- but using it for the anti-racist agenda of integration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main issue here isn't race. The fundamental problem is that most schools in DC are garbage (sorry, but it's true). And there's way more people who want to send their kids to non-garbage schools than can be accommodated.

If more schools around here were halfway decent, people would not spend so much time worrying about which school their kids will attend.

+1

[Anonymous]

If this was really about race, you'd see daycares being segregated too. (Why would all these supposedly racist people wait until elementary or high school to start being racist?)

But has anyone ever heard of a black daycare? Or a predominantly white daycare?

No, no one has ever heard of that.

That's because this isn't about race. This is about public schools in DC being awful and people not wanting to send their kids to awful schools.

[Anonymous]

YIKES! Just read Jeff's blog on the front page, and then the study. As a sociologist familiar with content analysis (including qualitative analysis software like NVivo), I'm appalled at the methodology (and lack of its discussion) of this report. The whole thing should be retracted. If the authors tried having this peer reviewed properly by submitting to a decent journal, they would get some (free) lessons on how to properly design a qualitative study using anonymous Internet forums as a source.

I can also highly recommend this textbook:
https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/the-sage-handbook-of-online-research-methods/book245027