Study: "Discussions of D.C. public school options in an online forum" (yes, this one)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

again, are you willing to enroll your child in a high school where literally every single kid has failed the math PARCC? I’m not. The racism here is whatever is causing that failure, not white parents chosing not to enroll.

oh and cute of you to throw in “pandemic pods.” so the anti-racist thing is to close schools for 2 years and let kids struggle. Ok.

Have you paused to think about why you are so defensive?

heyo, people get defensive when you falsely accuse them of racism. this is kind of fundamental to human nature. if you actually had a bona fide interest in integrating schools (which depends on individual choice to a large degree) you’d have some consciousness of this. But your actual interest is to declare people racist instead of doing the hard work of fixing DC schools.

Um, it's not.

And your actual interest is to engage in racist actions. Look, I don't care what you do, I am just noticing how you handle facing the reality of your choice. I am just wondering if you have noticed.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

This link is not reachable. Probably because you have to be a member of the group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link and the summary. I haven't read beyond the summary and won't comment until I do.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/we-all-want-whats-best-for-our-kids/

Combining data from the online parent forum, commonly known as “DC Urban Moms,” and publicly available school data, this paper explores how an online community, one that appears to be dominated by privileged parents, discusses its local school system.

The results suggest that if there is a market for schools in the District, the commenters on DC Urban Moms are participating in a highly segregated version of it. A large percentage of schools in the District are almost never discussed on the forum, and those rarely mentioned schools have higher rates of poverty and serve students that are almost exclusively Black. The inattention to these schools can be explained only in part by the city’s neighborhood segregation. Moreover, the wealthiest and whitest schools not only have more thorough consideration of their academic and extracurricular offerings, but conversations about these schools are also more likely to refer, rather than to demographic categories, to the people that make up the schools, using words like “moms,” “children,” “families,” and “teachers.” The individuals attending lesser-attention schools are thus doubly invisible to the DC Urban Moms participants. Finally, much of the discussion on the forum focuses on how to gain access to the relatively narrow band of preferred schools. The two mechanisms of school access, residence and the lottery, are not seen as competing strategies, but rather as systems to be used in tandem, in ways that give well-off parents repeated opportunities to self-segregate.

Though school diversity is no panacea for the societal ills that stem from centuries of systemic racism and economic exploitation, the findings present a challenge for opponents of school segregation—and its attendant resource hoarding—and for the hope of a more equal and integrated society.

I think it's a well done study and demonstrates how social media - in particular, specialized forums such as this one - functions in practice. No matter how well motivated the creator of a platform may have been, social media platforms are largely tools that reinforce the existing views held by posters.

Many of us only found DCUM and began to post when we saw it was the single biggest source of misinformation about our local public schools. We then get hooked and find that we end up contributing to this phenomenon as much as counteracting it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link and the summary. I haven't read beyond the summary and won't comment until I do.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/we-all-want-whats-best-for-our-kids/

Combining data from the online parent forum, commonly known as “DC Urban Moms,” and publicly available school data, this paper explores how an online community, one that appears to be dominated by privileged parents, discusses its local school system.

The results suggest that if there is a market for schools in the District, the commenters on DC Urban Moms are participating in a highly segregated version of it. A large percentage of schools in the District are almost never discussed on the forum, and those rarely mentioned schools have higher rates of poverty and serve students that are almost exclusively Black. The inattention to these schools can be explained only in part by the city’s neighborhood segregation. Moreover, the wealthiest and whitest schools not only have more thorough consideration of their academic and extracurricular offerings, but conversations about these schools are also more likely to refer, rather than to demographic categories, to the people that make up the schools, using words like “moms,” “children,” “families,” and “teachers.” The individuals attending lesser-attention schools are thus doubly invisible to the DC Urban Moms participants. Finally, much of the discussion on the forum focuses on how to gain access to the relatively narrow band of preferred schools. The two mechanisms of school access, residence and the lottery, are not seen as competing strategies, but rather as systems to be used in tandem, in ways that give well-off parents repeated opportunities to self-segregate.

Though school diversity is no panacea for the societal ills that stem from centuries of systemic racism and economic exploitation, the findings present a challenge for opponents of school segregation—and its attendant resource hoarding—and for the hope of a more equal and integrated society.

I think it's a well done study and demonstrates how social media - in particular, specialized forums such as this one - functions in practice. No matter how well motivated the creator of a platform may have been, social media platforms are largely tools that reinforce the existing views held by posters.

Many of us only found DCUM and began to post when we saw it was the single biggest source of misinformation about our local public schools. We then get hooked and find that we end up contributing to this phenomenon as much as counteracting it.

If they were trying to reach a conclusion about social media platforms, the study might make more sense. But instead they purport to have insight into parental thinking and decision-making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a funny observation- shining stars comes up several times as a frequently mentioned school... but I’m pretty sure every post I’ve ever seen about it is negative

No, it used to be popular then met a downfall. I should know we listed it third on our list once, got great number, matched, then the negative posts started and we panicked.

This is why this site is so broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

I thought what Jeff said made a lot of sense. Reflection is good, but does not solves these issues. Nor does arrogantly telling other people what you are ‘sure’ is in their minds and how they should be acting. Undoubtedly you should reflect more on your usage of plastics and non-renewable energy.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a funny observation- shining stars comes up several times as a frequently mentioned school... but I’m pretty sure every post I’ve ever seen about it is negative

No, it used to be popular then met a downfall. I should know we listed it third on our list once, got great number, matched, then the negative posts started and we panicked.

This is why this site is so broken.

Shining Stars is a three star school. There are plenty of better alternatives. It sounds to me like the site worked.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe an anonymous site filled with trolls who make up stuff would be the subject of a Brookings study. DCUM is a privileged group talking about privileged things. No doubt. But...

In other words, what they are saying is that it is shocking that a predominantly highly educated (across all racial groups who participate here) person with probably/likely higher-than-average wealth who more likely than not lives (predominantly) in wealthy neighborhoods and who probably is -- more likely than not -- white isn't talking more about mostly black schools in poorer zip codes. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or good or bad, but it's sort of a Captain Obvious thing.

And the root cause is not addressed.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

Reflection by itself is meaningless. I reflect every time I eat an extra brownie. That doesn't stop me from eating it. At some point, the narrative will have to move beyond name-calling and shaming and start proposing ideas for changing things. If parents are faced with an inbound DCPS school in which over half the kids are not a grade level and you can't convince them that this is still a good opportunity for their child, they will avoid the school. Whether they avoid it by going OOB, charter, private, or moving probably doesn't matter much, but they will avoid it.

This is your subjective account of this type of research, and your knee-jerk defensiveness and white fragility is getting in the way of considering these issues further. I fail to see why reflection/awareness isn't a reasonable interim goal while others are still working on long-term solutions. Perhaps many parents here should sit with this a bit, instead of immediately defending their decision-making.

This is a good, linked discussion of some of these issues, in a DC area pandemic pods group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dmvhomeschool/permalink/3572497386116851/

I am sure that you mean well, but you are doing tremendous harm to the cause that you appear to support. The report offered no suggestions for change whatsoever and the report's supporters here have defended that. You offer nothing other that "reflection", something most of us have engaged in since the day our children were born (and in some cases earlier). You obviously don't know what white people should do differently (other than reflect) but you expect them to know.

I don't need to waste my time reading about pods. I have read about them for a year. Are you unaware of the discussions on this site? I didn't form a pod for my kid.

I know that you have all the answers (except when you don't) and have a slew of buzzwords and labels that you can deploy at will in lieu of actual substance, if you are serious about improving the educational opportunities of the underserved you need to radically change your approach.

Wow. No reflection. I guess a hit dog will holler.

Wow, just name calling and a complete lack of substance. There is not a single poster in this forum who could benefit from reflection more than you. I have never seen someone so convinced that they have a complete monopoly on the truth. You sit in judgment of all of us but have nothing of substance to contribute.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:This is their conclusion:

The conversations on DC Urban Moms illustrate what other research has also shown: When privileged parents choose, they tend to choose segregation

This is an extremely unfair characterization that completely misses the nuanced and complex reality. It is extremely disappointing to see such drivel presented as serious research.

Unfortunately, the Post increasingly publishes simplistic (and divisive) click-bait articles about complex cultural issues.

If this were my site, I'd push back hard on this slander. I'm glad you are doing so.

It's not the Post that is the problem. The Post article gave a fair presentation of my views. The issue is the Brookings report which is utter garbage.

I’m sorry they did you like this, Mr. Steele, but I can’t say I’m surprised. The discussions on this site are entirely too open for the tastes of the social justice crowd, so they want to silence it. Your responses are entirely rational and entirely correct, but sadly that is entirely irrelevant. You’ve been tagged with running a site that facilitates segregation and “resource hoarding” by white families. Intent does not matter, and it you allow it to continue you are complicit (in their view). Candidly I am surprised it has taken this long for the Eye of Sauron to fall upon you. That said, you are a much-beloved figure on this site, and I suspect you will be able to weather the storm, for now. Now that you have published your own (very good IMO) statement, best to ignore it and it will probably go away — who reads Brookings reports anyway? Further engagement will not benefit you, the authors of this study are not acting in good faith, and you can’t respond as if they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So basically, the two schools that prove the point of the research are Banneker and CMI. If you can't explain those, you must agree that white people are causing school segregation due to racism.

Where is a good analysis of these two schools, then? I do think that being in an under 5% minority at any school is going to turn a parent off, for better or worse. That rules out Banneker. Beyond that, CMI has been discussed on here ad nauseum, and I think that it has to do with education model and perhaps its facilities.

The real trend of parents of means (of all races) away from DCPS and toward a few select charters (outside UNW) is more interesting to analyze and would require a much better research plan.

The Waltons won’t fund research studying that question.

Because their goal is to help charters and harm DCPS (so rich people can profit.)

This is how Brookings taking money from anti-public-school people is distorting.

The Waltons will fund a study that divides DCPS based on race. They won’t fund studies that are likely to reflect poorly on charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White affluent parents do a lot of things that exacerbate racial inequities--moving to segregated neighborhoods, choosing schools w/larger white populations, redshirting, pandemic pods, etc., all in the name of "doing what's best for my kids." I hope with more recent scholarship on these issues (opportunity hoarding, etc.), this leads to some reflection.

again, are you willing to enroll your child in a high school where literally every single kid has failed the math PARCC? I’m not. The racism here is whatever is causing that failure, not white parents chosing not to enroll.

oh and cute of you to throw in “pandemic pods.” so the anti-racist thing is to close schools for 2 years and let kids struggle. Ok.

Have you paused to think about why you are so defensive?

heyo, people get defensive when you falsely accuse them of racism. this is kind of fundamental to human nature. if you actually had a bona fide interest in integrating schools (which depends on individual choice to a large degree) you’d have some consciousness of this. But your actual interest is to declare people racist instead of doing the hard work of fixing DC schools.

Um, it's not.

And your actual interest is to engage in racist actions. Look, I don't care what you do, I am just noticing how you handle facing the reality of your choice. I am just wondering if you have noticed.

It’s a racist action not to send my kid to a school where all kids fail the math targets? That’s not a racist action. A racist action is what you’re doing - deflecting from the actual problems causing black kids to fail in school by focusing on pissing off white parents because that makes you feel good.