SAT "adversity" adjustment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way this can work is to make it OPTIONAL. Plenty of people will want to report their neighborhood adversity score, and plenty won't. It is profiling and just as disclosing your race is optional and applicants have strict control over what they wish to present in their applications (even teacher recs--you can opt to see them but of course most would not), having a mark on your application which may be inaccurate and stereotyping should be something you can OPT OUT of.

The colleges don't need the college board to do this. Right now they are fully aware of the economic and racial demographics AND the average standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and state proficiency exams) AND using this to inform where they recruit and to contextualize students who apply.

They also use census tract data -- from which income, age, racial composition, voting behavior -- is all available. It not only is used for admissions, colleges use it to inform their marketing, especially at schools that give generous scholarships and are looking to create a more diverse class.

You cannot opt in or opt out of sharing your address and the name of your high school with a college you are applying to. And that's all they need to figure out what you object to.

This

I simply don't understand why any college admissions need College Board to compute some likely inaccurate and misleading scores, when they are already doing a much more comprehensive review of applicants' background.

It pin points the kids that have risen to the top in their specific area. They want the best of the best from all over the nation, not just from 1 group of people or area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way this can work is to make it OPTIONAL. Plenty of people will want to report their neighborhood adversity score, and plenty won't. It is profiling and just as disclosing your race is optional and applicants have strict control over what they wish to present in their applications (even teacher recs--you can opt to see them but of course most would not), having a mark on your application which may be inaccurate and stereotyping should be something you can OPT OUT of.

It's not something you will be able to OPT-In or out of. The College Board provides it to the colleges and the colleges are free to use it or not. They've already piloted it so it's been happening already. This isn't about the individual information that kids provide - they are using publicly available data to provide more context.

Can people actually read about it to understand how it works? Might help to do this to be informed.

Do you understand what the word "Piloting" means? Are you aware that organizations/businesses are capable of responding to feedback, especially if they realize they will lose money if they share information associated with a performance score that the consumer doesn't want them to share. Yes, colleges can do their own assessments of adversity or privilege. The issue is that paired with a score of performance is a score that affects perception of that score, and is not viewable by the consumer. Dumb.

Excuse me I full well know what a pilot is. If you think you are going to escape this, then you are the one that is DUMB. Colleges have already been doing this type of data mining on their own and taking it into consideration during the admissions process. So I guess you plan to have your kids avoid college altogether.

Of course colleges have their own ways of doing this. Everyone knows this. It's their choice to look at each student individually. The outrage is about the College Board doing this, and doing it badly. They are not doing mass demographic profiling on a national scale. Without transparency. And the concern is that they will use context data to diminish the achievements of students with low adversity scores as that would be discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way this can work is to make it OPTIONAL. Plenty of people will want to report their neighborhood adversity score, and plenty won't. It is profiling and just as disclosing your race is optional and applicants have strict control over what they wish to present in their applications (even teacher recs--you can opt to see them but of course most would not), having a mark on your application which may be inaccurate and stereotyping should be something you can OPT OUT of.

The colleges don't need the college board to do this. Right now they are fully aware of the economic and racial demographics AND the average standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and state proficiency exams) AND using this to inform where they recruit and to contextualize students who apply.

They also use census tract data -- from which income, age, racial composition, voting behavior -- is all available. It not only is used for admissions, colleges use it to inform their marketing, especially at schools that give generous scholarships and are looking to create a more diverse class.

You cannot opt in or opt out of sharing your address and the name of your high school with a college you are applying to. And that's all they need to figure out what you object to.

This

I simply don't understand why any college admissions need College Board to compute some likely inaccurate and misleading scores, when they are already doing a much more comprehensive review of applicants' background.

It pin points the kids that have risen to the top in their specific area. They want the best of the best from all over the nation, not just from 1 group of people or area.

Except that it can pin point completely incorrectly. They won't be getting the best of the best if the neighborhood data does not correctly profile that specific student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way this can work is to make it OPTIONAL. Plenty of people will want to report their neighborhood adversity score, and plenty won't. It is profiling and just as disclosing your race is optional and applicants have strict control over what they wish to present in their applications (even teacher recs--you can opt to see them but of course most would not), having a mark on your application which may be inaccurate and stereotyping should be something you can OPT OUT of.

The colleges don't need the college board to do this. Right now they are fully aware of the economic and racial demographics AND the average standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and state proficiency exams) AND using this to inform where they recruit and to contextualize students who apply.

They also use census tract data -- from which income, age, racial composition, voting behavior -- is all available. It not only is used for admissions, colleges use it to inform their marketing, especially at schools that give generous scholarships and are looking to create a more diverse class.

You cannot opt in or opt out of sharing your address and the name of your high school with a college you are applying to. And that's all they need to figure out what you object to.

This

I simply don't understand why any college admissions need College Board to compute some likely inaccurate and misleading scores, when they are already doing a much more comprehensive review of applicants' background.

It pin points the kids that have risen to the top in their specific area. They want the best of the best from all over the nation, not just from 1 group of people or area.

?

Colleges are already doing the wholistic review. Everything factors in this adversity score are already known to admissions.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think that the vast majority of nova will get anything other than a low adversity score. A victim of its own crony capitalistic success, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way this can work is to make it OPTIONAL. Plenty of people will want to report their neighborhood adversity score, and plenty won't. It is profiling and just as disclosing your race is optional and applicants have strict control over what they wish to present in their applications (even teacher recs--you can opt to see them but of course most would not), having a mark on your application which may be inaccurate and stereotyping should be something you can OPT OUT of.

The colleges don't need the college board to do this. Right now they are fully aware of the economic and racial demographics AND the average standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and state proficiency exams) AND using this to inform where they recruit and to contextualize students who apply.

They also use census tract data -- from which income, age, racial composition, voting behavior -- is all available. It not only is used for admissions, colleges use it to inform their marketing, especially at schools that give generous scholarships and are looking to create a more diverse class.

You cannot opt in or opt out of sharing your address and the name of your high school with a college you are applying to. And that's all they need to figure out what you object to.

This

I simply don't understand why any college admissions need College Board to compute some likely inaccurate and misleading scores, when they are already doing a much more comprehensive review of applicants' background.

Because if you work in a big university, it’s easier to have some other group do the initial sorting for you. But it’s not race based. Even though race can be reported (legally).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way this can work is to make it OPTIONAL. Plenty of people will want to report their neighborhood adversity score, and plenty won't. It is profiling and just as disclosing your race is optional and applicants have strict control over what they wish to present in their applications (even teacher recs--you can opt to see them but of course most would not), having a mark on your application which may be inaccurate and stereotyping should be something you can OPT OUT of.

The colleges don't need the college board to do this. Right now they are fully aware of the economic and racial demographics AND the average standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and state proficiency exams) AND using this to inform where they recruit and to contextualize students who apply.

They also use census tract data -- from which income, age, racial composition, voting behavior -- is all available. It not only is used for admissions, colleges use it to inform their marketing, especially at schools that give generous scholarships and are looking to create a more diverse class.

You cannot opt in or opt out of sharing your address and the name of your high school with a college you are applying to. And that's all they need to figure out what you object to.

This

I simply don't understand why any college admissions need College Board to compute some likely inaccurate and misleading scores, when they are already doing a much more comprehensive review of applicants' background.

Because if you work in a big university, it’s easier to have some other group do the initial sorting for you. But it’s not race based. Even though race can be reported (legally).

Also, CB found a new education market to exploit. $$$

[Anonymous]

Here's the info used and dashboard display, from the CB. They say this is especially to be used for kids who have a 50/50 chance of getting in. Notice they have a nice bar-chart style graphic showing your kid's score compared to the rest of the HS. This is to help them see visually if you should be bumped up *or down*. If your "adversity context" score is low, it devalues your SAT score. The way to avoid being bumped down would be to have a way to opt out.

[Anonymous]

Oops. Here it is: https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/professionals/data-driven-models-to-understand-environmental-context.pdf

[Anonymous]

Once again, DCUM showing true colors.

High income white and asian people feeling sorry for themselves because little Johnny who has done every activity since the age of two, has never had to work in his life, and has had a tutor for the SAT may not get into a Top 20 school! How sad.

Keep telling yourself that you and your kids have it so bad as compared to a low income family struggling to pay for rent and food let alone health care. Keep telling yourself that your kid with a 1500 is such a genius and the black kid in DC with a 1200 is just going to screw up the whole Ivy League college.

Pathetic. Your kids (and all their AD/ADHD bullshit diversity) will be fine at Boulder, Indiana, Wisconsin, or god forbid American or UMBC.

No one deserves a top 20 spot. My kids have been read to since they were babies, they never had to worry about having enough money to pay for a meal, they have had doctors when they are sick, I have been able to pay for them to get help (mentally) when needed, they had tutors for these stupid standardized tests which do not correlate to success anyway, and they have been free to pursue what they want in terms of EC activities because we don't need them to work to pay for basic needs. This, DCUM folks, is called privilege. They-and most of you posting-are so privileged and yet all you do is whine and complain. All you can see is that your kid might have to go to a school in the Top 50 instead of the Top 20. Get a grip. You are lucky. They are beyond lucky.

And for those who are privileged but have faced true adversity--your kids have support, are resilient and will be fine if they go to Mason instead of UVA. Seriously

All of you need to stop with this "we white rich people are so discriminated against." This whole 'we deserve Ivy Leagues' mentality is pathetic. None of you are moving to low-income neighborhoods. What a joke. You would rather have your kid go to the 2nd tier state school than have to be a minority and go to school with brown kids. And that is fine, but don't act like all of a sudden you are moving from potomac to Southeast.

Ugh-- with all that is going on in the world, it would be really nice if folks on here could acknowledge how good their kids have it.

[Anonymous]

I want to know what the lowest possible adversity score will be. Like if a white kid lives in a $1.2m home in 16th street heights, going to private, with a $500K HHI, does that kid get a higher score than the nearly-identical one living in Bethesda, just because his neighborhood is economically more diverse? And does the kid in Bethesda get “0”?

[Anonymous]

I have long been a proponent of affirmative action. But I don't trust the College Board, and I don't trust them to do this. Are they in the business of writing tests or demography? The criticisms of this adversity scoring are not about giving kids a leg up, they're about the CB creating essentially a national scoring system for adversity that has vast potential to create wrong numbers. They're undermining the validity of their own test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, DCUM showing true colors.

High income white and asian people feeling sorry for themselves because little Johnny who has done every activity since the age of two, has never had to work in his life, and has had a tutor for the SAT may not get into a Top 20 school! How sad.

Keep telling yourself that you and your kids have it so bad as compared to a low income family struggling to pay for rent and food let alone health care. Keep telling yourself that your kid with a 1500 is such a genius and the black kid in DC with a 1200 is just going to screw up the whole Ivy League college.

Pathetic. Your kids (and all their AD/ADHD bullshit diversity) will be fine at Boulder, Indiana, Wisconsin, or god forbid American or UMBC.

No one deserves a top 20 spot. My kids have been read to since they were babies, they never had to worry about having enough money to pay for a meal, they have had doctors when they are sick, I have been able to pay for them to get help (mentally) when needed, they had tutors for these stupid standardized tests which do not correlate to success anyway, and they have been free to pursue what they want in terms of EC activities because we don't need them to work to pay for basic needs. This, DCUM folks, is called privilege. They-and most of you posting-are so privileged and yet all you do is whine and complain. All you can see is that your kid might have to go to a school in the Top 50 instead of the Top 20. Get a grip. You are lucky. They are beyond lucky.

And for those who are privileged but have faced true adversity--your kids have support, are resilient and will be fine if they go to Mason instead of UVA. Seriously

All of you need to stop with this "we white rich people are so discriminated against." This whole 'we deserve Ivy Leagues' mentality is pathetic. None of you are moving to low-income neighborhoods. What a joke. You would rather have your kid go to the 2nd tier state school than have to be a minority and go to school with brown kids. And that is fine, but don't act like all of a sudden you are moving from potomac to Southeast.

Ugh-- with all that is going on in the world, it would be really nice if folks on here could acknowledge how good their kids have it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again, DCUM showing true colors.

High income white and asian people feeling sorry for themselves because little Johnny who has done every activity since the age of two, has never had to work in his life, and has had a tutor for the SAT may not get into a Top 20 school! How sad.

Keep telling yourself that you and your kids have it so bad as compared to a low income family struggling to pay for rent and food let alone health care. Keep telling yourself that your kid with a 1500 is such a genius and the black kid in DC with a 1200 is just going to screw up the whole Ivy League college.

Pathetic. Your kids (and all their AD/ADHD bullshit diversity) will be fine at Boulder, Indiana, Wisconsin, or god forbid American or UMBC.

No one deserves a top 20 spot. My kids have been read to since they were babies, they never had to worry about having enough money to pay for a meal, they have had doctors when they are sick, I have been able to pay for them to get help (mentally) when needed, they had tutors for these stupid standardized tests which do not correlate to success anyway, and they have been free to pursue what they want in terms of EC activities because we don't need them to work to pay for basic needs. This, DCUM folks, is called privilege. They-and most of you posting-are so privileged and yet all you do is whine and complain. All you can see is that your kid might have to go to a school in the Top 50 instead of the Top 20. Get a grip. You are lucky. They are beyond lucky.

And for those who are privileged but have faced true adversity--your kids have support, are resilient and will be fine if they go to Mason instead of UVA. Seriously

All of you need to stop with this "we white rich people are so discriminated against." This whole 'we deserve Ivy Leagues' mentality is pathetic. None of you are moving to low-income neighborhoods. What a joke. You would rather have your kid go to the 2nd tier state school than have to be a minority and go to school with brown kids. And that is fine, but don't act like all of a sudden you are moving from potomac to Southeast.

Ugh-- with all that is going on in the world, it would be really nice if folks on here could acknowledge how good their kids have it.

You’re clearly no stranger to straw man arguments.

[Anonymous]

The whole purpose of the SAT and ACT is that they are *standardized* non-subjective tests of aptitude.

If you have 5 kids taking the same test, you score the tests and see which kid made the best score. Easy, right?

Ha.