Why are HRCS so popular? Test scores stink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here, upper grade. Last year admin definitely promised
to use textbooks in Middle School and to somehow teach organizing skills,
executive function skills. Actually they promised to do everything at once,
hopefully they'll manage to sort something out, and at least foster a pleasant
classroom "culture" which seemed to be a real priority. Good luck pressing
for more content, hope it works.

Current CMI parent here, lower grade. I spoke with Admin about these issues last week and they said that they are still implementing the curriculum of the MS -- textbooks, organizing skills, executive function skills. I think we all need to wait and see what happens during this year. There is no way to predict what will and won't happen, and I think many parents are seeing what they don't have in the first month and think that's it. I expect that there will be real textbooks for all the classes within the next month.

Not getting textbooks until 4-6 weeks in is hardly auspicious. Remember the well placed outrage when that regularly happened at DCPS?

Figuring things out as you go along is maybe ok (or easier to hide) when kids are 3 and 4. 6th is a different story.

Admin seemed to admit that things were not were they should be. But, the ES took a long time to get out the kinks and things are changing with the MS so I think the kinks will get out faster. I doubt the current parents are happy about it and my kids isn't directly affected, but I do think that we need to wait another month to make any conclusions on the MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - CMI must be a heck of a place if it can turn TWO general threads into CMI specific only.

It's the new YY. Or maybe BASIS in that regard.

No, that means it has some very vocal boosters. Boosters boost, it's what they do. The school needs to deliver on some academic promises and produce some real results before it's the new... whatever.

It's popular for younger grades, very white, very child friendly and that's good. The MS focus seems to be all over the map. What's going on with the commitment to SN students? Frankly I think those kids need another decent school option than the rest of us need one more high-end elementary HRC. The size of the school is never going to allow it the economies of scale to produce Basis/DCI/Latin opportunities, the parents pushing for this are extremely unrealistic.

This. We are at ITS and feel like the K-8 model is set up to fail in DC. So many people will continue to lotto for a high school path and/or a larger middle that can provide more.

I have seen private and parochial schools successfully implement K-8, but in DC's public model it just doesn't look feasible. Privates and parochials can sort their students at entry, counsel them out, and charge admission. That doesn't work for public schools.

K-8 schools statistically do better for middle schoolers whether they are private or public. The key is that DC schools are preschool-8, not K-8. It's not that it's public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - CMI must be a heck of a place if it can turn TWO general threads into CMI specific only.

It's the new YY. Or maybe BASIS in that regard.

No, that means it has some very vocal boosters. Boosters boost, it's what they do. The school needs to deliver on some academic promises and produce some real results before it's the new... whatever.

It's popular for younger grades, very white, very child friendly and that's good. The MS focus seems to be all over the map. What's going on with the commitment to SN students? Frankly I think those kids need another decent school option than the rest of us need one more high-end elementary HRC. The size of the school is never going to allow it the economies of scale to produce Basis/DCI/Latin opportunities, the parents pushing for this are extremely unrealistic.

This. We are at ITS and feel like the K-8 model is set up to fail in DC. So many people will continue to lotto for a high school path and/or a larger middle that can provide more.

I have seen private and parochial schools successfully implement K-8, but in DC's public model it just doesn't look feasible. Privates and parochials can sort their students at entry, counsel them out, and charge admission. That doesn't work for public schools.

Private is not a good comparison privates have budgets to pay teachers and afford labs. It doesn't work at our school not because the inability to counsel out but the fact that every single 4th grader will be playing the lottery to try to get into a middle school that has a feeder path for high school. The ones that get lucky will leave and hide empty spots will be given to students that are coming from worse performing schools.

There are ways to avoid this pitfall -- the overarching point being to stress the positives

1) Make the MS from 5-8, so it is completely separate from the ES (right now 5th is a transition year but it can be affirmatively part of the MS so that students will be applying separate for the MS and attracting new students in that key year, too, instead of losing students in that year)

2) Start SN priority for the MS like at Bridges to create a stronger WL and add to the value of small classes with individual attention and small environments. If it was a SN priority school with the SN focus, more families with SN students would be "playing the lottery" in 4th grade to get into MS.

3) Create a MS PTA so it creates a stronger and separate cohesive group with its own funding, own priorities, and own control with a focus on the needs of their SN students

4) Allow for as much flexibility as possible in terms of allowing students to do work on with other schools or other organizations (thus allowing to meet the needs of different SN students without wasting money on "labs" or whatever most of the students don't want/need).

The key both for the SN students in DC who deserve a wonderful school and for the school who needs to attract more students is to create a SN priority, which is exactly what was implied on the amendment app in the first place.

Nope. Sorry but as long as you have charters that do middle and high you will still have issues of attrition for families that try to solidify their spot for high school. Separate school or not, I'm applying out after 4th and so are half my peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here, upper grade. Last year admin definitely promised
to use textbooks in Middle School and to somehow teach organizing skills,
executive function skills. Actually they promised to do everything at once,
hopefully they'll manage to sort something out, and at least foster a pleasant
classroom "culture" which seemed to be a real priority. Good luck pressing
for more content, hope it works.

Like any new charter school, the MS is a new charter school. Is has to start at year 1. Budget, staff, etc. If you were here for CMI Elementry year 1 you probably remember lots of bumps in the road as well. Now, on year 5 we have a WL over 1000+ families, an amazing facility, a middle school (!), and parents who don't even remember when it was an admin team of 3 and everyone knew each other.

A WL doesn't buy you a science lab or 10th grade math for 7th graders.

10th grade math for 10th graders? DCUM indicates that parents are just requesting 7th grade math at least for 7th graders!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - CMI must be a heck of a place if it can turn TWO general threads into CMI specific only.

It's the new YY. Or maybe BASIS in that regard.

No, that means it has some very vocal boosters. Boosters boost, it's what they do. The school needs to deliver on some academic promises and produce some real results before it's the new... whatever.

It's popular for younger grades, very white, very child friendly and that's good. The MS focus seems to be all over the map. What's going on with the commitment to SN students? Frankly I think those kids need another decent school option than the rest of us need one more high-end elementary HRC. The size of the school is never going to allow it the economies of scale to produce Basis/DCI/Latin opportunities, the parents pushing for this are extremely unrealistic.

This. We are at ITS and feel like the K-8 model is set up to fail in DC. So many people will continue to lotto for a high school path and/or a larger middle that can provide more.

I have seen private and parochial schools successfully implement K-8, but in DC's public model it just doesn't look feasible. Privates and parochials can sort their students at entry, counsel them out, and charge admission. That doesn't work for public schools.

Private is not a good comparison privates have budgets to pay teachers and afford labs. It doesn't work at our school not because the inability to counsel out but the fact that every single 4th grader will be playing the lottery to try to get into a middle school that has a feeder path for high school. The ones that get lucky will leave and hide empty spots will be given to students that are coming from worse performing schools.

There are ways to avoid this pitfall -- the overarching point being to stress the positives

1) Make the MS from 5-8, so it is completely separate from the ES (right now 5th is a transition year but it can be affirmatively part of the MS so that students will be applying separate for the MS and attracting new students in that key year, too, instead of losing students in that year)

2) Start SN priority for the MS like at Bridges to create a stronger WL and add to the value of small classes with individual attention and small environments. If it was a SN priority school with the SN focus, more families with SN students would be "playing the lottery" in 4th grade to get into MS.

3) Create a MS PTA so it creates a stronger and separate cohesive group with its own funding, own priorities, and own control with a focus on the needs of their SN students

4) Allow for as much flexibility as possible in terms of allowing students to do work on with other schools or other organizations (thus allowing to meet the needs of different SN students without wasting money on "labs" or whatever most of the students don't want/need).

The key both for the SN students in DC who deserve a wonderful school and for the school who needs to attract more students is to create a SN priority, which is exactly what was implied on the amendment app in the first place.

Nope. Sorry but as long as you have charters that do middle and high you will still have issues of attrition for families that try to solidify their spot for high school. Separate school or not, I'm applying out after 4th and so are half my peers.

They will likely have a HS so that is a non-issue. Half the class (non SN) apply out after 4th (Latin, BASIS, etc) but then 2-3X that number apply in (SN) for the SN priority MS-HS (5th-12th). It would provide the beautiful, safe, small campus that SN students in DC deserve while creating a robust WL that makes sense for the space, teachers, and staff expertise. How come I'm the only person on DCUM to come up with this idea? It's obvious, rational, and impossible to criticize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - CMI must be a heck of a place if it can turn TWO general threads into CMI specific only.

It's the new YY. Or maybe BASIS in that regard.

No, that means it has some very vocal boosters. Boosters boost, it's what they do. The school needs to deliver on some academic promises and produce some real results before it's the new... whatever.

It's popular for younger grades, very white, very child friendly and that's good. The MS focus seems to be all over the map. What's going on with the commitment to SN students? Frankly I think those kids need another decent school option than the rest of us need one more high-end elementary HRC. The size of the school is never going to allow it the economies of scale to produce Basis/DCI/Latin opportunities, the parents pushing for this are extremely unrealistic.

This. We are at ITS and feel like the K-8 model is set up to fail in DC. So many people will continue to lotto for a high school path and/or a larger middle that can provide more.

I have seen private and parochial schools successfully implement K-8, but in DC's public model it just doesn't look feasible. Privates and parochials can sort their students at entry, counsel them out, and charge admission. That doesn't work for public schools.

Private is not a good comparison privates have budgets to pay teachers and afford labs. It doesn't work at our school not because the inability to counsel out but the fact that every single 4th grader will be playing the lottery to try to get into a middle school that has a feeder path for high school. The ones that get lucky will leave and hide empty spots will be given to students that are coming from worse performing schools.

There are ways to avoid this pitfall -- the overarching point being to stress the positives

1) Make the MS from 5-8, so it is completely separate from the ES (right now 5th is a transition year but it can be affirmatively part of the MS so that students will be applying separate for the MS and attracting new students in that key year, too, instead of losing students in that year)

2) Start SN priority for the MS like at Bridges to create a stronger WL and add to the value of small classes with individual attention and small environments. If it was a SN priority school with the SN focus, more families with SN students would be "playing the lottery" in 4th grade to get into MS.

3) Create a MS PTA so it creates a stronger and separate cohesive group with its own funding, own priorities, and own control with a focus on the needs of their SN students

4) Allow for as much flexibility as possible in terms of allowing students to do work on with other schools or other organizations (thus allowing to meet the needs of different SN students without wasting money on "labs" or whatever most of the students don't want/need).

The key both for the SN students in DC who deserve a wonderful school and for the school who needs to attract more students is to create a SN priority, which is exactly what was implied on the amendment app in the first place.

Nope. Sorry but as long as you have charters that do middle and high you will still have issues of attrition for families that try to solidify their spot for high school. Separate school or not, I'm applying out after 4th and so are half my peers.

They will likely have a HS so that is a non-issue. Half the class (non SN) apply out after 4th (Latin, BASIS, etc) but then 2-3X that number apply in (SN) for the SN priority MS-HS (5th-12th). It would provide the beautiful, safe, small campus that SN students in DC deserve while creating a robust WL that makes sense for the space, teachers, and staff expertise. How come I'm the only person on DCUM to come up with this idea? It's obvious, rational, and impossible to criticize.

PP. We are at ITS so the issue still remains for non SN PS-8 schools.

[Anonymous]

I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here, upper grade. Last year admin definitely promised
to use textbooks in Middle School and to somehow teach organizing skills,
executive function skills. Actually they promised to do everything at once,
hopefully they'll manage to sort something out, and at least foster a pleasant
classroom "culture" which seemed to be a real priority. Good luck pressing
for more content, hope it works.

Like any new charter school, the MS is a new charter school. Is has to start at year 1. Budget, staff, etc. If you were here for CMI Elementry year 1 you probably remember lots of bumps in the road as well. Now, on year 5 we have a WL over 1000+ families, an amazing facility, a middle school (!), and parents who don't even remember when it was an admin team of 3 and everyone knew each other.

A WL doesn't buy you a science lab or 10th grade math for 7th graders.

10th grade math for 10th graders? DCUM indicates that parents are just requesting 7th grade math at least for 7th graders!

DCI has 7th graders (plural) doing 10th grade math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

This exactly. But even if you plan to do Banneker for high where does one go for middle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

This exactly. But even if you plan to do Banneker for high where does one go for middle?

BASIS, Latin, SH, Hardy, Deal and maybe ELHaynes, Cap City, TR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

This exactly. But even if you plan to do Banneker for high where does one go for middle?

BASIS, Latin, SH, Hardy, Deal and maybe ELHaynes, Cap City, TR.

Or SWWFS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

This exactly. But even if you plan to do Banneker for high where does one go for middle?

BASIS, Latin, SH, Hardy, Deal and maybe ELHaynes, Cap City, TR.

Or SWWFS

Except SWW@FS only accepted 2 students at 6th this past year, and 3 the year before. The difference between it and the others is that there is no 5th or 6th expansion or distinction between the primary/elementary and middle school. Those expansions make those schools more of an option for people who want to stay in a progressive school like CMI through at least 4th grade.

That's also the pattern of the privates that go K-8 or K-12. While some children start at K more join at 4th or 5th, and where relevant, even more come in 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

This exactly. But even if you plan to do Banneker for high where does one go for middle?

BASIS, Latin, SH, Hardy, Deal and maybe ELHaynes, Cap City, TR.

Personally, I wouldn't only leave CMI or ITS middle for Deal, Latin, Basis and maybe Hardy. The issue people are trying to stress is that ITS and CMI will continue to have attrition be a problem for them which makes PS-8 model flawed in this city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the bigger issue is that, at least among the gentrifiers that hang out on this board, lots of people want progressive, child focused schools in PK-5.

But as middle and high school approach they start wanting 'rigor' (which means different things to different people. They want students to have subject matter expert teachers (history, science, English, foreign language) and textbooks/ math classes that follow or lead to the traditional sequence (pre-Algebra, Algebra, Geometry).

This is part of why so many leave TR at 5th, and I think it's going to be an ongoing challenge for CMI and IT.

Even if you don't want your child at BASIS through high school, you are pretty confident that by 8th your kid will be able to get past the admissions test for SWW or Banneker's process or a private school.

This exactly. But even if you plan to do Banneker for high where does one go for middle?

BASIS, Latin, SH, Hardy, Deal and maybe ELHaynes, Cap City, TR.

Or SWWFS

Haha. No

[Anonymous]

NB. Basis has an amendment to add a ES, and even if in the beginning due to lack of child-led philosophies, it is less than successful, at some point, parents may choose that option to guarantee admission into Basis for MS/HS. Thus, it may be more comparable to SWW @FS in a few short years.

I think CMI has potential to become a MS competitive with BASIS MS (Latin, etc) in those same short years. However, it would need to invest in that decision (only resource being DCUM forums, so I'm referencing separate teachers for all the subjects, respected textbooks, hard sciences, AP options, etc). However, I also think that CMI has potential to stand out as a leader in as a high-class SN MS if it invests in that decision (SN priority, SN resources, perhaps additional non-school options, etc). At this point, it sounds like CMI has not made a decision to invest in its future one way or the other -- it wants to have a few SN-friendly ideas with the same teacher, for example (but not SN priority and not an SN commitment) and and some academic prestige with the labs, for example (but not invest in a MS hard science teacher and science textbooks). I think the indecision is hurting it and a decision each way will prove it to be successful either way (using its successful ES model as proof).

Another poster asked DCUM to give it one month to make these decisions and start to forge its path here in DC. I'm interested to see if that one month makes any difference at all, or if it's just a way to postpone these decisions in the first place which should have been made last year or earlier.