The Last of Us - HBO TV show (With game spoilers)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

Did they really know how she became immune?

How would they immunize people knowing that? Have a zombie bite every woman giving birth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ending was perfect. Her ‘ok’ could mean so many things. He made the choice every parent would make - f mankind, I’m saving my kid. The whole hospital scene - music, 100% commitment to the goal, everything. The baring of their souls throughout the episode. Everything was a perfect culmination of their entire journey.

It was uplifting and kind of depressing at the same time. You have these great moments with the giraffes and the two of them traveling and talking, and then the realization that this lie is going to be massively destructive, and the beginning of the end of their relationship has started. I kind of winced when Joel talked about Sarah - and I felt like Ellie really understood something there too. And that she's kind of afraid of it.

Same reaction to Joel talking about Sarah. On one hand he hasn't talked about her for 20 years and it's healthy that he is finally doing that. But on the other hand it's a lot to put on Ellie. She's just a kid and is dealing with a lot of her own trauma. I'm worried that he's opened the floodgates and is going to make her feel like she's a replacement for Sarah. He's the adult and Ellie is the child- I don't want her to have to manage his emotions and play that role. I didn't play the game, but I have to imagine she will eventually learn what he did at the hospital and that she'll be furious that he took her "purpose" from her and saved her as a re do for what he couldn't do for Sarah. I don't agree that dying for a possible cure is Ellie's "purpose" but I think that's how she's going to feel when this conflict comes.

Also wow - the fact that her first question when she woke up in the car was "where are my clothes" really broke my heart. She has a long and hard road ahead of her to process and recover from what David did to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

Did they really know how she became immune?

How would they immunize people knowing that? Have a zombie bite every woman giving birth?

Marlene must have been able to put 2 and 2 together.

Ellie is proof you can inoculate a fetus so I’d certainly start there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

Did they really know how she became immune?

How would they immunize people knowing that? Have a zombie bite every woman giving birth?

Marlene must have been able to put 2 and 2 together.

Ellie is proof you can inoculate a fetus so I’d certainly start there.

How exactly without killing the mom?

I wonder if Ellie’s antibodies (or whatever) would be passed down to her kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ending was perfect. Her ‘ok’ could mean so many things. He made the choice every parent would make - f mankind, I’m saving my kid. The whole hospital scene - music, 100% commitment to the goal, everything. The baring of their souls throughout the episode. Everything was a perfect culmination of their entire journey.

It was uplifting and kind of depressing at the same time. You have these great moments with the giraffes and the two of them traveling and talking, and then the realization that this lie is going to be massively destructive, and the beginning of the end of their relationship has started. I kind of winced when Joel talked about Sarah - and I felt like Ellie really understood something there too. And that she's kind of afraid of it.

Same reaction to Joel talking about Sarah. On one hand he hasn't talked about her for 20 years and it's healthy that he is finally doing that. But on the other hand it's a lot to put on Ellie. She's just a kid and is dealing with a lot of her own trauma. I'm worried that he's opened the floodgates and is going to make her feel like she's a replacement for Sarah. He's the adult and Ellie is the child- I don't want her to have to manage his emotions and play that role. I didn't play the game, but I have to imagine she will eventually learn what he did at the hospital and that she'll be furious that he took her "purpose" from her and saved her as a re do for what he couldn't do for Sarah. I don't agree that dying for a possible cure is Ellie's "purpose" but I think that's how she's going to feel when this conflict comes.

Also wow - the fact that her first question when she woke up in the car was "where are my clothes" really broke my heart. She has a long and hard road ahead of her to process and recover from what David did to her.

Is David the teacher preacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ending was perfect. Her ‘ok’ could mean so many things. He made the choice every parent would make - f mankind, I’m saving my kid. The whole hospital scene - music, 100% commitment to the goal, everything. The baring of their souls throughout the episode. Everything was a perfect culmination of their entire journey.

It was uplifting and kind of depressing at the same time. You have these great moments with the giraffes and the two of them traveling and talking, and then the realization that this lie is going to be massively destructive, and the beginning of the end of their relationship has started. I kind of winced when Joel talked about Sarah - and I felt like Ellie really understood something there too. And that she's kind of afraid of it.

Same reaction to Joel talking about Sarah. On one hand he hasn't talked about her for 20 years and it's healthy that he is finally doing that. But on the other hand it's a lot to put on Ellie. She's just a kid and is dealing with a lot of her own trauma. I'm worried that he's opened the floodgates and is going to make her feel like she's a replacement for Sarah. He's the adult and Ellie is the child- I don't want her to have to manage his emotions and play that role. I didn't play the game, but I have to imagine she will eventually learn what he did at the hospital and that she'll be furious that he took her "purpose" from her and saved her as a re do for what he couldn't do for Sarah. I don't agree that dying for a possible cure is Ellie's "purpose" but I think that's how she's going to feel when this conflict comes.

Also wow - the fact that her first question when she woke up in the car was "where are my clothes" really broke my heart. She has a long and hard road ahead of her to process and recover from what David did to her.

Is David the teacher preacher?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

There is no moral dilemma in the game. It's very clear in the game and show, that Maria's communist >> Fedra's military operation >> fireflies shitshow >> cannibalistic tribe led by a pedophile.
No one needs to feel sorry for the latter 2 in the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ending was perfect. Her ‘ok’ could mean so many things. He made the choice every parent would make - f mankind, I’m saving my kid. The whole hospital scene - music, 100% commitment to the goal, everything. The baring of their souls throughout the episode. Everything was a perfect culmination of their entire journey.

It was uplifting and kind of depressing at the same time. You have these great moments with the giraffes and the two of them traveling and talking, and then the realization that this lie is going to be massively destructive, and the beginning of the end of their relationship has started. I kind of winced when Joel talked about Sarah - and I felt like Ellie really understood something there too. And that she's kind of afraid of it.

Agree with both PPs, very good observations. The acting in this show is superb. The tranquil view of the little town from afar kind of gave me creeps, what awaits them there?

Tommy? Aren't they going back to the town he was running?

Yes, the town has proper bar and sandwiches and lovely women to date...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ending was perfect. Her ‘ok’ could mean so many things. He made the choice every parent would make - f mankind, I’m saving my kid. The whole hospital scene - music, 100% commitment to the goal, everything. The baring of their souls throughout the episode. Everything was a perfect culmination of their entire journey.

It was uplifting and kind of depressing at the same time. You have these great moments with the giraffes and the two of them traveling and talking, and then the realization that this lie is going to be massively destructive, and the beginning of the end of their relationship has started. I kind of winced when Joel talked about Sarah - and I felt like Ellie really understood something there too. And that she's kind of afraid of it.

Agree with both PPs, very good observations. The acting in this show is superb. The tranquil view of the little town from afar kind of gave me creeps, what awaits them there?

Tommy? Aren't they going back to the town he was running?

+1. This is what I though. I called it the Tom-mune.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ending was perfect. Her ‘ok’ could mean so many things. He made the choice every parent would make - f mankind, I’m saving my kid. The whole hospital scene - music, 100% commitment to the goal, everything. The baring of their souls throughout the episode. Everything was a perfect culmination of their entire journey.

It was uplifting and kind of depressing at the same time. You have these great moments with the giraffes and the two of them traveling and talking, and then the realization that this lie is going to be massively destructive, and the beginning of the end of their relationship has started. I kind of winced when Joel talked about Sarah - and I felt like Ellie really understood something there too. And that she's kind of afraid of it.

Agree with both PPs, very good observations. The acting in this show is superb. The tranquil view of the little town from afar kind of gave me creeps, what awaits them there?

Tommy? Aren't they going back to the town he was running?

+1. This is what I though. I called it the Tom-mune.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

I agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

Did they really know how she became immune?

How would they immunize people knowing that? Have a zombie bite every woman giving birth?

I agree. In Ellie’s case, it was seconds between the bite (located close to the birth canal), the birth and the cutting of the umbilical cord. No one would know how short of a time frame it was. The doctors would have no idea how long a baby can remain in the womb before birth - before it is immune versus before it’s infected (or if a baby can even be infected in vitro).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

I agree with this.

That’s how evolving science is, though. There is no way to tell and sometimes people need to be sacrificed for the greater good or possible greater good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

I agree with this.

That’s how evolving science is, though. There is no way to tell and sometimes people need to be sacrificed for the greater good or possible greater good.

Or they just take blood samples and work with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great finale and season. However, as someone who did not play the game, the moral dilemma aspect didn’t strike me so much as I watched the ending. The way I viewed everything, they were going to kill Ellie based on a doctor’s assertion that he could MAYBE create a vaccine. And then that vaccine MIGHT save lives but there’s no assurance that it would lead to the restoration of normal government, since things were already fubar worldwide. So in my mind yeah, it would be reasonable for Marlene and team to pump the brakes and look for a way to develop a vaccine without killing Ellie. They know how she became immune, and it did not require anyone’s brain to be removed, so it just does not logically follow that this was the only way to proceed. So in my viewing it felt like Joel was completely justified in his actions.

I get that I am making my own inferences here but I’m just explaining how I perceived it.

Did they really know how she became immune?

How would they immunize people knowing that? Have a zombie bite every woman giving birth?

I agree. In Ellie’s case, it was seconds between the bite (located close to the birth canal), the birth and the cutting of the umbilical cord. No one would know how short of a time frame it was. The doctors would have no idea how long a baby can remain in the womb before birth - before it is immune versus before it’s infected (or if a baby can even be infected in vitro).

I mean it’s fiction so no one can say. I was not saying like literally the only thing they could do was replicate the same conditions in the middle of a birth. I was saying that the plot leaves room to conjecture that you could give someone a very minuscule exposure and vaccinate them since that is what happened to Ellie. That is how science works, you see someone happen and you try multiple experiments and hypotheses to try to explain/replicate it. Also if I was going to really take this overly far I should say they should also start with mice first, etc., all before killing someone!! But my point was just that the story leaves plenty of room to doubt Marlene’s plan.