UHC CEO Gunned Down in Midtown Manhattan

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Some local multi family homes in Baltimore = a real estate empire?!?

Gawd.

Glad you never met any intl students at college who really did own family empires.

Owing 2 golf course resorts, a radio station, and a dozen nursing homes is a bit more than "local multi family homes"

That was all underpriced stuff decades ago. BFD
Nothing is costly in dangerous Balto except the gated communities where the ravens players live .

You have no idea. They have more money than you’ll ever have in 100 lifetimes.

I’m from there. They’re well off but they’re not a tech bro or Bloomberg with a $1B+++ family office and foundation. Get a grip.

The grandparents and parents parked some money long ago in land and real estate and then daisy chained properties together. Good for them.

Same. The wealth is not always evenly distributed among the future generations and many squander it. I dated someone like this from Baltimore and everyone assumed he was rich because of his last name but his branch of the family was not rich. They will pay for Baltimore private schools no matter what though. It’s a Baltimore thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I think most people agree that healthcare is a human right but the rub is deciding how much healthcare and what kind of healthcare that is?

The question is, how do we make sure those decisions are made by people for whom health care is care, rather than those for whom it is first and foremost a financial investment whose value must by definition grow?

Not sure but imo shooting strangers in the back should play no role.

PP, and I agree.
Lots of things are true at once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Some local multi family homes in Baltimore = a real estate empire?!?

Gawd.

Glad you never met any intl students at college who really did own family empires.

Owing 2 golf course resorts, a radio station, and a dozen nursing homes is a bit more than "local multi family homes"

That was all underpriced stuff decades ago. BFD
Nothing is costly in dangerous Balto except the gated communities where the ravens players live .

You have no idea. They have more money than you’ll ever have in 100 lifetimes.

I’m from there. They’re well off but they’re not a tech bro or Bloomberg with a $1B+++ family office and foundation. Get a grip.

The grandparents and parents parked some money long ago in land and real estate and then daisy chained properties together. Good for them.

Wow. One of my friends had a family office. Never realized she was a billionaire.

How naive I was!

[Anonymous]

This is one of the most famous comedians in America right now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did he want to get caught? Why didn’t he fly back to Hawaii? What’s his relation to middle PA?

TSA uses facial recognition now. There's no way he could have flown.

He could have flown the day it happened before his partial photo was everywhere.

A young man randomly hanging out in the middle of nowhere PA makes you look extremely suspicious. Dead-end rust belt towns are all townies and elderly people.

They would have tracked him if he’d flown.

I don't know that they would have, or if they did, it would take awhile. He could have been across the globe in a country without an extradition treaty before they even released their crappy pics.

Flying is expensive and requires credit cards and valid IDs. Would also have to toss all of the fake IDs.

That said, should have bought a Rolex on a credit card and flown to a foreign country. Rolex can be sold for quick cash.

Hanging out in middle PA is a lame after such apparent methodical planning.

This is a pretty wacky ending. How could he think this was a good idea? Did the popular reaction make him cocky? People might talk a big game when they're behind a keyboard at home, but it turns out people are nervous around murderers.

It's much, much easier to plan a surprise attack than to escape detection afterward.
It's a sudden huge shift in advantage in the scenario.
It's a different universe before vs after. It's bound to collapse.

He probably thought they were going to catch him much faster. He probably could have bought himself time if he flew that day

Flying would have brought with it a huge risk of the police waiting for him when the plane landed, with the assumption that it was just a matter of time before his face was on camera somewhere.

Not if changed his appearance, which is what an intelligent, meticulous person would do. He planned the rest to perfection, why couldn’t he have plucked his brows a bit and put on glasses?

He didn’t plan anything to perfection, he was dumb and manic all along. He got lucky on timing and situation.

[Anonymous]

The whole reaction to this is fascinating.

He's another young, white, mentally ill male who snapped and committed a violent act. But instead of shooting kindergarteners or women, he shot a hated, criminal CEO, and is now a hero.

I'm curious if we'll find misogynistic writings or Reddit posts from him. Those things seem to go hand-in-hand.

Overall I'm pretty disappointed he's just crazy. It was fun when he seemed to be a mastermind a la V for Vendetta.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

That’s because we eat poison. Whose fault is that?

Have seen the crap people willingly eat? Sorry, no. People make choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the most famous comedians in America right now.

That’s Andrew Schulz this is his co-host Akaash Singh. These “comedians” have tens of millions of listeners and subscribers on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You always go to an ER with a broken bone. They set it and refer you to an ortho. My kids seem to always break things on weekends, so that’s been my experience.

Oh brother.

The very fact that we are having a conversation about whether one should go to an ER with a literal broken bone is a sign of how broken our system is.

We don’t have to live this way. Healthcare can exist FOR us.

Anyone with kids goes to PM pediatrics for fractures and potential breaks, or the Orthopedist urgimed in Court Square. Once in awhile you have to go wait 2-5 hours in Children’s Hospital. The orthopedist’s by Rockledge drive can get you day off, there huge and use 20% of their slots for walk-ins.

ER is used by two types: those with No insurance who don’t pay the bill; those with $200 copays who use it properly or like an urgimed.

DP, I am someone with good fed insurance and a ~$200 hospital copay.

How does my copay amount mean I’m using it properly while someone with a higher copay is not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Murder without rational motive is typically due to mental illness. This CEO didn’t even know him or affect him personally

Financial ruin and poor health are highly personal

There is no indication of either or that it was somehow the fault of his insurance. We don’t even know what his supposed health condition is. We do know his family is loaded and could have funded any treatment he needed. Just because you don’t have the medical outcome you want doesn’t mean someone is at fault. Lots of people have back surgery and still have pain. Or trade one problem for another. But even this is speculation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole reaction to this is fascinating.

He's another young, white, mentally ill male who snapped and committed a violent act. But instead of shooting kindergarteners or women, he shot a hated, criminal CEO, and is now a hero.

I'm curious if we'll find misogynistic writings or Reddit posts from him. Those things seem to go hand-in-hand.

Overall I'm pretty disappointed he's just crazy. It was fun when he seemed to be a mastermind a la V for Vendetta.

His Reddit was mostly him talking about his back and brain fog issues, Pokémon go, and travelling with just one bag/ backpacking. Unless they find something written down I don’t think there is much more to find, he has a fairly clean digital footprint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I think most people agree that healthcare is a human right but the rub is deciding how much healthcare and what kind of healthcare that is?

The question is, how do we make sure those decisions are made by people for whom health care is care, rather than those for whom it is first and foremost a financial investment whose value must by definition grow?

Well these are decisions that should not be made by people with a fiduciary duty to shareholders. No matter who is the CEO, they’re going to have conflicting legal duties to their investors and a moral duty (and contractual) to their customer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole reaction to this is fascinating.

He's another young, white, mentally ill male who snapped and committed a violent act. But instead of shooting kindergarteners or women, he shot a hated, criminal CEO, and is now a hero.

I'm curious if we'll find misogynistic writings or Reddit posts from him. Those things seem to go hand-in-hand.

Overall I'm pretty disappointed he's just crazy. It was fun when he seemed to be a mastermind a la V for Vendetta.

People don't seem to realize he was railing against all large corporations, not just health care. He mentioned Apple and others by name. He just happened to attack the UHC CEO first. If he attacked Apple's CEO, it's unlikely he would be getting the same spin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole reaction to this is fascinating.

He's another young, white, mentally ill male who snapped and committed a violent act. But instead of shooting kindergarteners or women, he shot a hated, criminal CEO, and is now a hero.

I'm curious if we'll find misogynistic writings or Reddit posts from him. Those things seem to go hand-in-hand.

Overall I'm pretty disappointed he's just crazy. It was fun when he seemed to be a mastermind a la V for Vendetta.

People don't seem to realize he was railing against all large corporations, not just health care. He mentioned Apple and others by name. He just happened to attack the UHC CEO first. If he attacked Apple's CEO, it's unlikely he would be getting the same spin.

I thought he just brought the other companies up for size comparisons. Everyone knows Apple is rich and huge, but not everyone thinks about United healthcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You always go to an ER with a broken bone. They set it and refer you to an ortho. My kids seem to always break things on weekends, so that’s been my experience.

Oh brother.

The very fact that we are having a conversation about whether one should go to an ER with a literal broken bone is a sign of how broken our system is.

We don’t have to live this way. Healthcare can exist FOR us.

Anyone with kids goes to PM pediatrics for fractures and potential breaks, or the Orthopedist urgimed in Court Square. Once in awhile you have to go wait 2-5 hours in Children’s Hospital. The orthopedist’s by Rockledge drive can get you day off, there huge and use 20% of their slots for walk-ins.

ER is used by two types: those with No insurance who don’t pay the bill; those with $200 copays who use it properly or like an urgimed.

DP, I am someone with good fed insurance and a ~$200 hospital copay.

How does my copay amount mean I’m using it properly while someone with a higher copay is not?

PP is so steeped in the system they don’t seem to be able to see it, let alone question it. They’re like the proverbial fish who asks “what’s water?”