Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

To be sure, there's prob some who are anti-sem and some sincere about their reasons for limiting war. That's just how it goes when there's like thousands involved no? I mean it's not like all of them or either/or.

However, the overarching sentiment is I think right. What the US govt doing is helping to fund and support innocents being killed over an act that happened months ago. Yes that act was wrong and mortifyingly horrible but the current actions have no justification either. You can kill the bad guys but if you're killing the good guys at the same time ON PURPOSE, you know, in the movies that means we're not rooting for you anymore!

I think what the students are doing is what all students on college campuses do - taking a stand for what they believe in - however that looks to be wrong or right. To those who talk about the differences between Vietnam protests and this - I totally disagree. Many back then were angry about those protests - they said that to go against our troops when we were already committed was wrong. In hindsight, the war probably wasn't the best thing to engage in. We are questioning now a war that the US is involved in - by proxy - we are fighting not with troops but with our money. That is really the same concept. We are involving ourselves in a manner posing a moral dilemma.

This is going to be an issue for some time I feel. Israel isn't going to quit what they are doing. We're going to continue to debate how we feel about it. As long as Biden remain in office as he's not going to draw that line clearly - he's too political.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Better question: should this student be condemned/punished?

My answer: Yes

Universities (private) should adopt a simple standard: anyone who celebrates/calls for violence against civilians will be punished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

BS. Most of these protests have prominent Jewish groups in them! They are also peaceful until the cops show up and start brutalizing the protestors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

BS. Most of these protests have prominent Jewish groups in them! They are also peaceful until the cops show up and start brutalizing the protestors.

"Most" is a strong word in that sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

BS. Most of these protests have prominent Jewish groups in them! They are also peaceful until the cops show up and start brutalizing the protestors.

"Most" is a strong word in that sentence.

As is "brutalizing".

A little hysterical, I'd say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

+1

I've seen limited antisemitism, BUT have seen LOTS of (a) support for terrorism, and (b) even more calls for the elimination/abolition of Israel, regardless of the will of the Israeli people or the consequences for them.

These may not be "antisemitism" per se, but they are awful.

Israel is an apartheid state. Just like South Africa became a pariah state in the 1980s so too is Israel becoming a pariah state. Sorry but the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby that exists here in the US. They see the truth. And thankfully, so do our younger generations/students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

+1

I've seen limited antisemitism, BUT have seen LOTS of (a) support for terrorism, and (b) even more calls for the elimination/abolition of Israel, regardless of the will of the Israeli people or the consequences for them.

These may not be "antisemitism" per se, but they are awful.

Israel is an apartheid state. Just like South Africa became a pariah state in the 1980s so too is Israel becoming a pariah state. Sorry but the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby that exists here in the US. They see the truth. And thankfully, so do our younger generations/students.

FTR, Israel could probably always have been considered a pariah state since it is officially unrecognized by 28 UN member states (members of the Arab League or on-Arab members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation).

If you are saying that it is becoming a pariah state to the US, or more specifically to some American college students, well, possible. But seems unlikely to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

Okay. So you are saying that you support all Palestinians who are not Hamas and do not support the current local government of Gaza, which is Hamas. That makes sense, from a moral point of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

+1

I've seen limited antisemitism, BUT have seen LOTS of (a) support for terrorism, and (b) even more calls for the elimination/abolition of Israel, regardless of the will of the Israeli people or the consequences for them.

These may not be "antisemitism" per se, but they are awful.

Israel is an apartheid state. Just like South Africa became a pariah state in the 1980s so too is Israel becoming a pariah state. Sorry but the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby that exists here in the US. They see the truth. And thankfully, so do our younger generations/students.

There's plenty of room for criticism of Israel and its actions, but calling for the annihilation of a nation?

I'd say you don't have much ground to stand on in terms of criticizing other's humanity.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

So are you suggesting that ALL Palestinians are terrorists? I'm a new poster and I think you are a wacko!
In fact if your answer is yes which is what you are insinuating by your question above, I would say you are a racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

DP.

What about all the people on US campuses who have EXPLICITLY supported Hamas?

There are literally hundreds of examples.

And you're standing next to them.

Are you so forgiving of the January 6th protesters who were just there "to support democracy" and didn't riot?

I'd guess not.

Interesting question here: how should we treat peaceful protesters who peacefully protest alongside protesters advocating for violence?

Seems like we ought to establish a principled position that applies regardless of political position.