The linked study indicates that this pooled testing program was done over twenty weeks between August, 2020 and January 2021. Isn't that before the vast majority of these 2052 people who would have caught covid could have been vaccinated? You've characterized this as a recent study- I see that it was recently published, but I'm not quite understanding why these results are applicable to a testing program conducted in Arlington in school year 2021-22, particularly given the vaccination rates in this area. |
Which is probably where the children who tested positive got it in the first place....not vice versa, getting it at school and taking it home to their parents. But who knows for sure? This study didn't track that. This is all extrapolation from data involving almost 254K people from 93 schools and 18 universities. Do we have that many students being tested? |
And he we go with moving the goalposts. It's never going to end with some of you people. |
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This is amazing, the same people who called last year's virtual schooling "garbage, non-existent education" now say they would totally sign up for APS's asymptomatic testing if virtual schooling were available while their kids were in quarantine!
So APS virtual schooling last year sucked, unless its unavailability can make me try to seem more reasonable, in which case it is a good thing. I'm getting whiplash from your quickly changing positions. I mean, you asked for evidence and I gave it to you, but you have nothing to say about it. You just go back to how hard this would be on your family to have kids home from school for any length of time. And PP upthread is MAD because this study which was just published 14 days ago is not using recent enough data, because it studies kids from mid-2020 through January 2021!!! Nevermind that it takes several months to compile your data, analyze and write up the results, and get the study accepted for publication. This PP will only be convinced when someone gets results from the last several months, writes up the results and gets them published, and then travels back in time to show us those results in real time. Talk about moving the goalposts!! (PS -- the fact that this study uses earlier data just shows, if anything, that the results NOW with the more virulent Delta virus would spread even faster given its higher transmissiblility than last year's virus, but okay. I wouldn't expect a different result from you guys anyway.) (BTW APS's testing also includes high school kids which you seem to object to in this study for some reason -- if high school kids have higher levels of potential exposure, seems like that's a good reason to test them at APS, and the study tested lower grades as well just as APS is doing but I guess you need to object to something so...) |
Well, yes, the garbage education is better that NO education which let's face it that's what asynchronous is. Busywork. And I still won't sign up for testing even if it involved virtual classes. |
I'm PP above and I concede you all make a good point about this study being conducted before vaccinations were widely available. I don't think that would affect the data much for the K-5 grades but it should probably affect it for the older kids -- most importantly it should make any infections to vaccinated kids less lethal. Again, though, I can't really fault the timeline of the study for not being more recent when it takes time to compile data and publish a study. Moreover, none of you are mentioning the Delta effect either -- because it's decidedly inconvenient for you -- which makes the virus MORE transmissible than the old virus even in vaccinated people. If anything the 2.4 infection rate estimation is probably a severe undercounting when you are talking about Delta. |
I am the person who posted a question about the study. That is the only post I have made on this thread. I'm not sure why asking a question makes me in any way MAD. I'm not sure what you're imagining, but I'm an elementary parent who is on the fence about testing and trying to understand the relative benefits. You posted a study which you said supported testing. I asked a question about it. Just to be super clear, I haven't written anything objecting to any part of the study or the APS testing program. I get that this is an emotional topic, and I probably shouldn't expect high quality guidance from an anonymous message board, but....big yikes on this over the top response. |
I get that studies are always going to be delayed based on data collection time. But I think the fact this data is from before vaccination and doesn’t differentiate between a kindergartener’s risk of infection vs. an 18 year old HS student and doesn’t distinguish between school environments (unmasked vs. masked, outdoor lunching, ventilation improvements, etc.) just doesn’t make it comparable to what parents here in Arlington are facing. These are reasonable critiques of this study even if you want to deny it. |
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ANTI TEST: Covid is less lethal to kids than the flu!
PRO TEST: Actually covid has killed more kids than the flu ever has in the last year, and compared to some years 10x as many so... ANTI TEST: Car accidents though! You can't make me test! PRO TEST: Just try it, you'll like it. ANTI TEST: You can't make me. What if my kid misses school for a week even though he's doesn't have it? PRO TEST: Okay but what if your kid is asymptomatic and but for testing would spread covid to other kids and households? ANTITEST: They should be vaxxed. That's their problem. This has to end! You can't prove testing is worthwhile! Show me some studies saying it's worth it. PRO TEST: Shows recent study proving testing saves money by catching cases early and saving on healthcare costs for people who would otherwise get infected absent early detection through testing. ANTI TEST: NOT THAT STUDY. A study I like, which shows testing from last month! And which doesn't show any positive effects because I don't want to see them! PRO TEST: This is clearly really going well. ANTI TEST: Yeah you guys are totally unreasonable. |
Still beating that drum that COVID more dangerous to healthy kids than the flu. Pathetic. Most spreading of kids, especially young kids, happens from adult to child. So of course the fact it took place in a pre-vax environment. Our county has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country. And you're the same type of person who would discount any study showing the less than flu level risk to healthy kids with COVID with "delta changes everything" (which it doesn't - it's just more contagious). COVID is not going away ever, so no, I'm not signing up for this stuff. More than 80%+ of families didn't sign up either. Maybe you should go preach your gospel (because COVID mitigation is your religion) to the parents at the sports parks on the weekend, none of whom I talked to this past weekend signed up their kids. |
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This argument is not going to end between these 2 camps so let's put it up for a vote. Oh yeah, the people have already spoken overwhelmingly with 80%+ choosing not do it.
I just hope the losers will accept their loss. Maybe they're going to mount an insurrection because they think the vote is stolen. |
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Please provide a source stating that when schools are in session, most transmission of covid to children happens from adult to child rather than from child to child.
Because there are certainly studies that show that children -- even very young asymptomatic children -- can easily transmit covid an in fact are usually the ones who bring it home and infect their families, over and above older teenagers. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210817/youngest-kids-more-likely-spread-covid-to-family You guys seem really mad. I can see that you guys are saying that there is a cost benefit analysis to what the early testing can do, and I'm not going to add my kids into the testing group when getting a negative result might adversely affect them over other kids who aren't getting tested. Why should my kid be disadvantaged and unnecessarily miss school in such a small pool of kids when we don't really know if it will help anyone? I mean, you're not crazy. I can understand your position. I just think it's very me-first and selfish in the same way that people who refuse to wear masks in grocery stores are being selfish. You know that accepting this inconvenience to yourself could hurt someone in the community, but your own need to stay on top is primary, so you won't do it. Instead, you require curious levels of PROOF for an idea that is at it's core very rational -- early testing in schools can detect covid cases that otherwise wouldn't be caught, and thus quarantining those cases can stop kids from spreading covid to others in the school. Nah, you guys need stats from vaccinated people, and just kids in K-8, and a study that excludes the university kids, and a study that captures the same masking rates we have here in Arlington. We will be good and virtuous, you promise, if you just provide us exactly the precise study data we need at precisely the moment we need it. Whereas I thought people were just supposed to be good and virtuous and protective of their fellow community on principle, but I must have missed some meetings I guess. |
Sigh. You ignore the reasonable responses about how a study with results from Jan. 2021 all across the country and across grade levels up to college without any discussion of other mitigating preventative factors may not be an apples to apples comparison to APS with mask mandate and vaccination available for those 12+. You’re just insisting that *this study* must only be interpreted the ONE way that YOU insist or else parents are selfish for doing their own critical thinking. You ignore complaints about how APS has poorly communicated how this program works, how the algorithm works, or any acknowledgment that false positives exist that could lead to multiple children in a pool plus their siblings being excluded from school unnecessarily. You also ignore the fact that education loss after 18+ months of virtual learning is a legitimate hardship that needs to be weighed against any potential benefit of catching an asymptomatic infection of a masked child (don’t we all still believe that masks work a significant amount of the time?). Also you ignore the fact that even with Delta spread not one child in Arlington County has died this entire pandemic. So you’re proposing actual harm to children through continued learning loss for a tiny statistical risk of of COVID. Plus it’s INCREDIBLY privileged to tell people to just try it and deal with the week or so inconvenience of having your kid potentially excluded from school due to a false positive or being in a pool with a positive person when there are parents who need their leave for when their child is actually sick and will not get paid if they do not go to work. Can you imagine risking your paycheck to APS’s vague algorithm? Stop acting like COVID is the be all, end all of harms to children and families during this pandemic. 80% of us have moved on. |
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DP but…
False positives are rare APS said the other pooled people don’t have to quarantine Fully agree though that APS communication sucks. |
| And APS likely had a low participation rate because of poor communication, not people “moving on”. 🙄 |