Do you think we will see a massive uptick in women choosing to stay home after this?

[Anonymous]

The men need to stay home and let the women run things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the working moms who think they are superior to stay at home moms because they make actual money, do you feel superior to working moms who make less than you? I'm a working mom, and I'm curious about this. I have friends who work harder than I do who make less and it would never occur to me to put a value on anyone (or deem anyone superior) because they made more money. To me, it's about how hard someone works, which could happen either at work or in a home. Putting a dollar value on the work someone does it something that is so subjective as to be meaningless. I mean, I don't think the movie stars who make $5M per movie are working that much harder than anyone else. They just happen to be in an industry that pays exorbitant sums.

Nah. Working isn’t just about money. Which is what many SAHMs don’t understand.

But it MOSTLY is. That is where you lose me. You can shout from the rooftops that you are doing this to be a role model to your children or to have something outside of children to talk about but when it comes down to it, most are making the choice to work for financial reasons and when you run the numbers of your personal family budget, it makes sense for both parents in your household to work to have the lifestyle you want. That's ok and I am sure you have taken the other reasons into some consideration as well, but they aren't number one. There are a lot of opportunities to be pretty involved on a pro bono level in many industries without taking a paycheck.

Again, you won't get it. SO MANY OF US work without a financial "need."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

I didn't post that, but what so many of you are missing is that it's not about the job itself. It's about being intellectually curious, professionally interesting and ambitious, and setting a good example for the generations of women that will come after us.

PP here. I find it curious that you think women who don’t work can’t be “intellectually curious.” My mom doesn’t work for money but she volunteers with a non profit org that pairs new breast cancer patients with mentors who have been through it and can help them find the support (be it medical, therapeutic, literature, etc.)!they need. In addition to that, she has several time consuming hobbies, reads 1-2 books a week, stays current on the news, and travels way more than her kids do. She’s one of the hardest working, most interesting women I know and she hasn’t worked in decades!

I don't agree with the premise that SAH = boring or unintelligent, but you're describing a retired person, not a SAHM. Someone with pre-k kids in the house likely isn't going to have time consuming hobbies, frequent travel, etc. (SAH or WOH).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

I didn't post that, but what so many of you are missing is that it's not about the job itself. It's about being intellectually curious, professionally interesting and ambitious, and setting a good example for the generations of women that will come after us.

PP here. I find it curious that you think women who don’t work can’t be “intellectually curious.” My mom doesn’t work for money but she volunteers with a non profit org that pairs new breast cancer patients with mentors who have been through it and can help them find the support (be it medical, therapeutic, literature, etc.)!they need. In addition to that, she has several time consuming hobbies, reads 1-2 books a week, stays current on the news, and travels way more than her kids do. She’s one of the hardest working, most interesting women I know and she hasn’t worked in decades!

I don't agree with the premise that SAH = boring or unintelligent, but you're describing a retired person, not a SAHM. Someone with pre-k kids in the house likely isn't going to have time consuming hobbies, frequent travel, etc. (SAH or WOH).

Fair enough, but no one would say a nanny or daycare worker is boring or unintelligent or not intellectually curious. And not all SAHMs have pre-k kids in the house. Some (although in fewer numbers) stay home well after their kids go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The men need to stay home and let the women run things.

I wish my husband would agree to stay at home while I focused on my career! I am much more professionally aggressive and ambitious than he is, and and he thrives on taking care of the kids and house. He won't though...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

I didn't post that, but what so many of you are missing is that it's not about the job itself. It's about being intellectually curious, professionally interesting and ambitious, and setting a good example for the generations of women that will come after us.

PP here. I find it curious that you think women who don’t work can’t be “intellectually curious.” My mom doesn’t work for money but she volunteers with a non profit org that pairs new breast cancer patients with mentors who have been through it and can help them find the support (be it medical, therapeutic, literature, etc.)!they need. In addition to that, she has several time consuming hobbies, reads 1-2 books a week, stays current on the news, and travels way more than her kids do. She’s one of the hardest working, most interesting women I know and she hasn’t worked in decades!

I don't agree with the premise that SAH = boring or unintelligent, but you're describing a retired person, not a SAHM. Someone with pre-k kids in the house likely isn't going to have time consuming hobbies, frequent travel, etc. (SAH or WOH).

Fair enough, but no one would say a nanny or daycare worker is boring or unintelligent or not intellectually curious. And not all SAHMs have pre-k kids in the house. Some (although in fewer numbers) stay home well after their kids go to school.

Yeah, like I said, I don't agree with that at all. I think this thread has just devolved into terrible people on both sides throwing the shittiest stereotypes they can think of at each other and then saying "only the people who aren't like me do this, though!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I was one of the people who responded to the mom at the door. There were others, so it's not like I was the only one with that opinion. But in any event, I don't care what other people think. So if she thinks it's a luxury to greet her kids at the door every day then good for her. I'm all for women being in a position to choose what they want to do, whatever that is. However, I also happen to think that having both parents be present in kids' lives in very important. So to me, what I think, not that it should matter to anyone else, is that both parents should be the ones making dinner, taking their kids to activities, giving them baths, greeting that at the door. And your "crap about setting a bad example for her kids" isn't actually crap. Sure, kids can make conscious choices to be different than their parents, but many, many people grow up imitating what they saw from their parents. You're a fool if you completely discount that.

Door greeter mom here. My husband gets home at 6 or 6:30 on a normal (pre pandemic) day. So he’s home plenty. As soon as he gets home, we sit down to dinner together as a family. Our kids are old enough not to need help with baths anymore but back when they hey we’re little, he did his share of bath time and middle of the night feedings.

So your assumptions are totally off. Not every SAHM mom is married to an absentee father.

So, he’s not taking the kids to after-school activities. He’s not making dinner. He’s not greeting them at the door. Your post doesn’t change anything.

He’s home with us for typically 3 hours before they go to bed. For one thing, he often does pick up at some of their activities. I drop them off and stay for a bit to watch because they like that and actively request it. Them I leave about midway to 2/3 through to get dinner started so we can eat when they all walk in the door. The two of us clean up together while the kids take baths or showers. Then it’s time to do homework and study, which we both help with in a divide and conquer way. Then we either play a game together as a family or pull out books to read before bed. Then bedtime routines. We both still give our kids 5-10 minute cuddles before bed.

So he’s very involved in our home life. Not to mention, we always do something fun together on the weekends. That’s the biggest perk of having a SAHP. Weekends are free from errands and chores so we can just spend time together. We live in Denver so we have a lot of great outdoor adventures around us. We ski every Saturday in the winter, go hiking in the non winter months, day trips, weekend trips, museums, bike rides, picnics, etc.

He’s very involved in our family life.

Nice u-turn you took to defend yourself. Your original post doesn't paint this picture.

Because it didn’t come up initially. I said I SAH because when I was working, I wasn’t the kind of parent I wanted to be. I felt preoccupied, stressed, and irritable all the time. When I came home from work, the last thing I wanted to do was take care of a baby. It didn’t have much to do with my husband other than that he makes a good income and was supportive of whatever I wanted to do.

When our kids were little, my husband did half of the middle of the night wake ups. Our kids see him cooking and cleaning. They see me taking out the trash and mowing the lawn. They see both of us at their activities and schools and helping them with their homework and projects. I know that we’re modeling a happy, strong marriage and partnership to them. I have no concerns on that front.

These were your exact words:

And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

The fact that YOU said YOU do all of this stuff is what people have an issue with. So own what you said and stop trying to backpedal your way into some sort of alternate family story.

I love that you’re trying to tell me about MY life like you know anything about it. Everything I’ve said is true and none of it is mutually exclusive. Kids come home at 3. I’m there to open the door to them, give them a snack, and hear about their day. Depending on the day, we either go to one of their scheduled activities, have a play date, go to the park or on a bike ride if it’s nice, or just veg out together by watching a movie.

DH comes home between 6-6:30. On some days, he brings the kids with him. Other days they’re already home. Then dinner, homework, shower, books, bed.

I haven’t said one untrue thing in this entire thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The men need to stay home and let the women run things.

I wish my husband would agree to stay at home while I focused on my career! I am much more professionally aggressive and ambitious than he is, and and he thrives on taking care of the kids and house. He won't though...

I know some SAHDs and the couples are very balanced and happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

I didn't post that, but what so many of you are missing is that it's not about the job itself. It's about being intellectually curious, professionally interesting and ambitious, and setting a good example for the generations of women that will come after us.

PP here. I find it curious that you think women who don’t work can’t be “intellectually curious.” My mom doesn’t work for money but she volunteers with a non profit org that pairs new breast cancer patients with mentors who have been through it and can help them find the support (be it medical, therapeutic, literature, etc.)!they need. In addition to that, she has several time consuming hobbies, reads 1-2 books a week, stays current on the news, and travels way more than her kids do. She’s one of the hardest working, most interesting women I know and she hasn’t worked in decades!

I don't agree with the premise that SAH = boring or unintelligent, but you're describing a retired person, not a SAHM. Someone with pre-k kids in the house likely isn't going to have time consuming hobbies, frequent travel, etc. (SAH or WOH).

Like I said, my mother hasn’t worked in decades. She was a SAHM when my siblings and I were kids. She was also a door greeter - the type that always had some baked treat in the oven waiting for us, which I know triggers some people in here but honestly I loved 😉

She was always super busy. Very involved with our small town and community. And both my sister and I work full time so I don’t agree that shams provide poor examples to their daughters. My mother modeled how to be a loving, involved, supportive parent. It didn’t matter one bit to us that she didn’t work for pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I was one of the people who responded to the mom at the door. There were others, so it's not like I was the only one with that opinion. But in any event, I don't care what other people think. So if she thinks it's a luxury to greet her kids at the door every day then good for her. I'm all for women being in a position to choose what they want to do, whatever that is. However, I also happen to think that having both parents be present in kids' lives in very important. So to me, what I think, not that it should matter to anyone else, is that both parents should be the ones making dinner, taking their kids to activities, giving them baths, greeting that at the door. And your "crap about setting a bad example for her kids" isn't actually crap. Sure, kids can make conscious choices to be different than their parents, but many, many people grow up imitating what they saw from their parents. You're a fool if you completely discount that.

Door greeter mom here. My husband gets home at 6 or 6:30 on a normal (pre pandemic) day. So he’s home plenty. As soon as he gets home, we sit down to dinner together as a family. Our kids are old enough not to need help with baths anymore but back when they hey we’re little, he did his share of bath time and middle of the night feedings.

So your assumptions are totally off. Not every SAHM mom is married to an absentee father.

So, he’s not taking the kids to after-school activities. He’s not making dinner. He’s not greeting them at the door. Your post doesn’t change anything.

He’s home with us for typically 3 hours before they go to bed. For one thing, he often does pick up at some of their activities. I drop them off and stay for a bit to watch because they like that and actively request it. Them I leave about midway to 2/3 through to get dinner started so we can eat when they all walk in the door. The two of us clean up together while the kids take baths or showers. Then it’s time to do homework and study, which we both help with in a divide and conquer way. Then we either play a game together as a family or pull out books to read before bed. Then bedtime routines. We both still give our kids 5-10 minute cuddles before bed.

So he’s very involved in our home life. Not to mention, we always do something fun together on the weekends. That’s the biggest perk of having a SAHP. Weekends are free from errands and chores so we can just spend time together. We live in Denver so we have a lot of great outdoor adventures around us. We ski every Saturday in the winter, go hiking in the non winter months, day trips, weekend trips, museums, bike rides, picnics, etc.

He’s very involved in our family life.

Nice u-turn you took to defend yourself. Your original post doesn't paint this picture.

Because it didn’t come up initially. I said I SAH because when I was working, I wasn’t the kind of parent I wanted to be. I felt preoccupied, stressed, and irritable all the time. When I came home from work, the last thing I wanted to do was take care of a baby. It didn’t have much to do with my husband other than that he makes a good income and was supportive of whatever I wanted to do.

When our kids were little, my husband did half of the middle of the night wake ups. Our kids see him cooking and cleaning. They see me taking out the trash and mowing the lawn. They see both of us at their activities and schools and helping them with their homework and projects. I know that we’re modeling a happy, strong marriage and partnership to them. I have no concerns on that front.

These were your exact words:

And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

The fact that YOU said YOU do all of this stuff is what people have an issue with. So own what you said and stop trying to backpedal your way into some sort of alternate family story.

I love that you’re trying to tell me about MY life like you know anything about it. Everything I’ve said is true and none of it is mutually exclusive. Kids come home at 3. I’m there to open the door to them, give them a snack, and hear about their day. Depending on the day, we either go to one of their scheduled activities, have a play date, go to the park or on a bike ride if it’s nice, or just veg out together by watching a movie.

DH comes home between 6-6:30. On some days, he brings the kids with him. Other days they’re already home. Then dinner, homework, shower, books, bed.

I haven’t said one untrue thing in this entire thread.

Working mom here. I don't know why people are picking on you, PP. I'm fortunate enough to work from home 4 days a week and my in-office day is short so I am home very early (DH also teleworks that day). I too am there to greet my kids after school, give them a snack, take them to their activities (which is impossible for my husband to do because they always start prior to him getting home), and start dinner. I think my work-life balance is wonderful and it keeps me in a job that is less than fulfilling because of all the flexibility it offers. So I hear you, SAHM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I was one of the people who responded to the mom at the door. There were others, so it's not like I was the only one with that opinion. But in any event, I don't care what other people think. So if she thinks it's a luxury to greet her kids at the door every day then good for her. I'm all for women being in a position to choose what they want to do, whatever that is. However, I also happen to think that having both parents be present in kids' lives in very important. So to me, what I think, not that it should matter to anyone else, is that both parents should be the ones making dinner, taking their kids to activities, giving them baths, greeting that at the door. And your "crap about setting a bad example for her kids" isn't actually crap. Sure, kids can make conscious choices to be different than their parents, but many, many people grow up imitating what they saw from their parents. You're a fool if you completely discount that.

Door greeter mom here. My husband gets home at 6 or 6:30 on a normal (pre pandemic) day. So he’s home plenty. As soon as he gets home, we sit down to dinner together as a family. Our kids are old enough not to need help with baths anymore but back when they hey we’re little, he did his share of bath time and middle of the night feedings.

So your assumptions are totally off. Not every SAHM mom is married to an absentee father.

So, he’s not taking the kids to after-school activities. He’s not making dinner. He’s not greeting them at the door. Your post doesn’t change anything.

He’s home with us for typically 3 hours before they go to bed. For one thing, he often does pick up at some of their activities. I drop them off and stay for a bit to watch because they like that and actively request it. Them I leave about midway to 2/3 through to get dinner started so we can eat when they all walk in the door. The two of us clean up together while the kids take baths or showers. Then it’s time to do homework and study, which we both help with in a divide and conquer way. Then we either play a game together as a family or pull out books to read before bed. Then bedtime routines. We both still give our kids 5-10 minute cuddles before bed.

So he’s very involved in our home life. Not to mention, we always do something fun together on the weekends. That’s the biggest perk of having a SAHP. Weekends are free from errands and chores so we can just spend time together. We live in Denver so we have a lot of great outdoor adventures around us. We ski every Saturday in the winter, go hiking in the non winter months, day trips, weekend trips, museums, bike rides, picnics, etc.

He’s very involved in our family life.

Nice u-turn you took to defend yourself. Your original post doesn't paint this picture.

Because it didn’t come up initially. I said I SAH because when I was working, I wasn’t the kind of parent I wanted to be. I felt preoccupied, stressed, and irritable all the time. When I came home from work, the last thing I wanted to do was take care of a baby. It didn’t have much to do with my husband other than that he makes a good income and was supportive of whatever I wanted to do.

When our kids were little, my husband did half of the middle of the night wake ups. Our kids see him cooking and cleaning. They see me taking out the trash and mowing the lawn. They see both of us at their activities and schools and helping them with their homework and projects. I know that we’re modeling a happy, strong marriage and partnership to them. I have no concerns on that front.

These were your exact words:

And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

The fact that YOU said YOU do all of this stuff is what people have an issue with. So own what you said and stop trying to backpedal your way into some sort of alternate family story.

I love that you’re trying to tell me about MY life like you know anything about it. Everything I’ve said is true and none of it is mutually exclusive. Kids come home at 3. I’m there to open the door to them, give them a snack, and hear about their day. Depending on the day, we either go to one of their scheduled activities, have a play date, go to the park or on a bike ride if it’s nice, or just veg out together by watching a movie.

DH comes home between 6-6:30. On some days, he brings the kids with him. Other days they’re already home. Then dinner, homework, shower, books, bed.

I haven’t said one untrue thing in this entire thread.

I SAH but most of my WOHMs do all these things and have high salaries ($200k+) ... everyone’s situation is different. I’m envious of WOH mom’s that have high paid flexible part time jobs.

[Anonymous]

If you’re anti SAHM but pro SAHD, ask yourself if that double standard is fair to anyone.

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Anonymous wrote:For the working moms who think they are superior to stay at home moms because they make actual money, do you feel superior to working moms who make less than you? I'm a working mom, and I'm curious about this. I have friends who work harder than I do who make less and it would never occur to me to put a value on anyone (or deem anyone superior) because they made more money. To me, it's about how hard someone works, which could happen either at work or in a home. Putting a dollar value on the work someone does it something that is so subjective as to be meaningless. I mean, I don't think the movie stars who make $5M per movie are working that much harder than anyone else. They just happen to be in an industry that pays exorbitant sums.

Nah. Working isn’t just about money. Which is what many SAHMs don’t understand.

But it MOSTLY is. That is where you lose me. You can shout from the rooftops that you are doing this to be a role model to your children or to have something outside of children to talk about but when it comes down to it, most are making the choice to work for financial reasons and when you run the numbers of your personal family budget, it makes sense for both parents in your household to work to have the lifestyle you want. That's ok and I am sure you have taken the other reasons into some consideration as well, but they aren't number one. There are a lot of opportunities to be pretty involved on a pro bono level in many industries without taking a paycheck.

Again, you won't get it. SO MANY OF US work without a financial "need."

You know that’s not true. Mostly everyone works for a financial need.

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Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I was one of the people who responded to the mom at the door. There were others, so it's not like I was the only one with that opinion. But in any event, I don't care what other people think. So if she thinks it's a luxury to greet her kids at the door every day then good for her. I'm all for women being in a position to choose what they want to do, whatever that is. However, I also happen to think that having both parents be present in kids' lives in very important. So to me, what I think, not that it should matter to anyone else, is that both parents should be the ones making dinner, taking their kids to activities, giving them baths, greeting that at the door. And your "crap about setting a bad example for her kids" isn't actually crap. Sure, kids can make conscious choices to be different than their parents, but many, many people grow up imitating what they saw from their parents. You're a fool if you completely discount that.

Door greeter mom here. My husband gets home at 6 or 6:30 on a normal (pre pandemic) day. So he’s home plenty. As soon as he gets home, we sit down to dinner together as a family. Our kids are old enough not to need help with baths anymore but back when they hey we’re little, he did his share of bath time and middle of the night feedings.

So your assumptions are totally off. Not every SAHM mom is married to an absentee father.

So, he’s not taking the kids to after-school activities. He’s not making dinner. He’s not greeting them at the door. Your post doesn’t change anything.

He’s home with us for typically 3 hours before they go to bed. For one thing, he often does pick up at some of their activities. I drop them off and stay for a bit to watch because they like that and actively request it. Them I leave about midway to 2/3 through to get dinner started so we can eat when they all walk in the door. The two of us clean up together while the kids take baths or showers. Then it’s time to do homework and study, which we both help with in a divide and conquer way. Then we either play a game together as a family or pull out books to read before bed. Then bedtime routines. We both still give our kids 5-10 minute cuddles before bed.

So he’s very involved in our home life. Not to mention, we always do something fun together on the weekends. That’s the biggest perk of having a SAHP. Weekends are free from errands and chores so we can just spend time together. We live in Denver so we have a lot of great outdoor adventures around us. We ski every Saturday in the winter, go hiking in the non winter months, day trips, weekend trips, museums, bike rides, picnics, etc.

He’s very involved in our family life.

Nice u-turn you took to defend yourself. Your original post doesn't paint this picture.

Because it didn’t come up initially. I said I SAH because when I was working, I wasn’t the kind of parent I wanted to be. I felt preoccupied, stressed, and irritable all the time. When I came home from work, the last thing I wanted to do was take care of a baby. It didn’t have much to do with my husband other than that he makes a good income and was supportive of whatever I wanted to do.

When our kids were little, my husband did half of the middle of the night wake ups. Our kids see him cooking and cleaning. They see me taking out the trash and mowing the lawn. They see both of us at their activities and schools and helping them with their homework and projects. I know that we’re modeling a happy, strong marriage and partnership to them. I have no concerns on that front.

These were your exact words:

And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

The fact that YOU said YOU do all of this stuff is what people have an issue with. So own what you said and stop trying to backpedal your way into some sort of alternate family story.

I love that you’re trying to tell me about MY life like you know anything about it. Everything I’ve said is true and none of it is mutually exclusive. Kids come home at 3. I’m there to open the door to them, give them a snack, and hear about their day. Depending on the day, we either go to one of their scheduled activities, have a play date, go to the park or on a bike ride if it’s nice, or just veg out together by watching a movie.

DH comes home between 6-6:30. On some days, he brings the kids with him. Other days they’re already home. Then dinner, homework, shower, books, bed.

I haven’t said one untrue thing in this entire thread.

I SAH but most of my WOHMs do all these things and have high salaries ($200k+) ... everyone’s situation is different. I’m envious of WOH mom’s that have high paid flexible part time jobs.

Now this is just inaccurate. No MOST WOHMs are NOT home at 3 pm spending the hours between 3-6:30 with their kids. So just stop with this.

I’m a working mom and I don’t get home until 6:30-7 and I refuse to feel bad about it. Because I know most people who work are not home at that time of day either. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the first time (other than short maternity leaves) that I’ve ever been able to stay home with my kids. I’m happier, DH is happier, I think my kids are the happiest I’ve ever seen them. Having to stay home and live simply these weeks have made me think we can give up some luxuries that my salary allows to have and still be happy. My friends are expressing similar sentiments and trying to find ways to make it work. Do you think we’ll see a resurgence of SAHM after this?

I think you will see a massive number of women choosing NOT to be childcare givers anymore now that they have seen how shamefully their NF have treated them.