That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Are you noticing, pp, that the more you take this conversation into rational, intelligent thinking, the more emotional and mean the comments get?

This is because you are 100% correct and these folk know it. They are trying to ignore facts, using phrases like "accidentally drunk" and not wanting to acknowledge that he was drunk and impaired as well. The CA law states "and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused. ". When someone is as drunk as this boy's lab test indicated, there is a question as to whether or not this criteria was met. It would take a mighty strong judge to face the political fallout had he/she ruled otherwise. That is why, though, the boy got a light sentence, and rightfully so. Personally, were I the judge, I would have ruled otherwise.

Here's the difference between her drunk and his drunk:

She was unconscious

He was conscious

Ergo, the onus was on him to determine SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSENTING TO BE FINGERED BEHIND A DUMPSTER

You don't know when she went from consciousness to unconsciousness, and you don't know, therefore, if she gave consent or not. When she WAS conscious, she was physically engaged with him.

It. does. not. matter.

When a woman is unconscious, you STOP. Whether she was "physically engaged" with him while conscious or not is irrelevant to the fact he KEPT PENETRATING HER when she was no longer conscious. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Rape apologists are literally just the absolute fucking worst.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

I'm hoping that's a link to the tea/consent video.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm hoping that's a link to the tea/consent video.

It is. I messed it up, though, so I reposted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Are you noticing, pp, that the more you take this conversation into rational, intelligent thinking, the more emotional and mean the comments get?

This is because you are 100% correct and these folk know it. They are trying to ignore facts, using phrases like "accidentally drunk" and not wanting to acknowledge that he was drunk and impaired as well. The CA law states "and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused. ". When someone is as drunk as this boy's lab test indicated, there is a question as to whether or not this criteria was met. It would take a mighty strong judge to face the political fallout had he/she ruled otherwise. That is why, though, the boy got a light sentence, and rightfully so. Personally, were I the judge, I would have ruled otherwise.

Here's the difference between her drunk and his drunk:

She was unconscious

He was conscious

Ergo, the onus was on him to determine SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSENTING TO BE FINGERED BEHIND A DUMPSTER

NP here.. He also knew right from wrong since ran away when the swedes asked him what he was doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Are you noticing, pp, that the more you take this conversation into rational, intelligent thinking, the more emotional and mean the comments get?

This is because you are 100% correct and these folk know it. They are trying to ignore facts, using phrases like "accidentally drunk" and not wanting to acknowledge that he was drunk and impaired as well. The CA law states "and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused. ". When someone is as drunk as this boy's lab test indicated, there is a question as to whether or not this criteria was met. It would take a mighty strong judge to face the political fallout had he/she ruled otherwise. That is why, though, the boy got a light sentence, and rightfully so. Personally, were I the judge, I would have ruled otherwise.

Here's the difference between her drunk and his drunk:

She was unconscious

He was conscious

Ergo, the onus was on him to determine SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSENTING TO BE FINGERED BEHIND A DUMPSTER

You don't know when she went from consciousness to unconsciousness, and you don't know, therefore, if she gave consent or not. When she WAS conscious, she was physically engaged with him.

Irrelevant. The new law seeks both to improve how universities handle rape and sexual assault accusations and to clarify the standards, requiring an "affirmative consent" and stating that consent can't be given if someone is asleep or incapacitated by drugs or alcohol.

"Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent," the law states, "nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time."

This is not up for debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Are you noticing, pp, that the more you take this conversation into rational, intelligent thinking, the more emotional and mean the comments get?

This is because you are 100% correct and these folk know it. They are trying to ignore facts, using phrases like "accidentally drunk" and not wanting to acknowledge that he was drunk and impaired as well. The CA law states "and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused. ". When someone is as drunk as this boy's lab test indicated, there is a question as to whether or not this criteria was met. It would take a mighty strong judge to face the political fallout had he/she ruled otherwise. That is why, though, the boy got a light sentence, and rightfully so. Personally, were I the judge, I would have ruled otherwise.

Here's the difference between her drunk and his drunk:

She was unconscious

He was conscious

Ergo, the onus was on him to determine SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSENTING TO BE FINGERED BEHIND A DUMPSTER

You don't know when she went from consciousness to unconsciousness, and you don't know, therefore, if she gave consent or not. When she WAS conscious, she was physically engaged with him.

Irrelevant. The new law seeks both to improve how universities handle rape and sexual assault accusations and to clarify the standards, requiring an "affirmative consent" and stating that consent can't be given if someone is asleep or incapacitated by drugs or alcohol.

"Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent," the law states, "nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time."

This is not up for debate.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/09/29/352482932/california-enacts-yes-means-yes-law-defining-sexual-consent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

True fact; alcohol doesn't spontaneously turn normal healthy people into rapists

+1

As a young girl, I got drunk plenty of times (with groups of people who were also drunk). No man during these times ever tried to rape me. The time I was sexually violated (I won't call it rape because I don't consider it rape, really) was when I was sleeping in bed with my sober then-boyfriend and he started having sex with me - while I was still sleeping.

Alcohol does not a rapist make.

Based on your experiences, what advice will you give your kids about alcohol, sexual violations, and rape?

Not PP but my discussions with my kids about alcohol will be completely separate from my discussions with them about sexual violations and rape because they are two different animals.

If only life's experiences could be so neatly compartmentalized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

The conversation I"m going to have: You don't have to say "can I touch your breast" in a robot voice, but use your words. Channel Barry White, and say "Hey baby, you look fine and I really want to fool around with you, does that sound good." Say: "I'm really turned on and I want to fuck you, do you want me?" And if you don't know her well enough to ask, or you ask and she doesn't respond, or you ask and she says no, or you ask and you realize she's unconscious and covered in vomit, then you do not have sex with her!

I have never actually been drunk, but sometimes I wonder if a drunk male will always have the good sense to do this, or if there will be a lot of miscommunication. Again, I have never been drunk, but I have observed other people being drunk, and I wonder how much control they really have over themselves and how considerate they are capable of being. As I get older and I see more and more stories like this I feel thankful for my prudish ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

True fact; alcohol doesn't spontaneously turn normal healthy people into rapists

+1

As a young girl, I got drunk plenty of times (with groups of people who were also drunk). No man during these times ever tried to rape me. The time I was sexually violated (I won't call it rape because I don't consider it rape, really) was when I was sleeping in bed with my sober then-boyfriend and he started having sex with me - while I was still sleeping.

Alcohol does not a rapist make.

Based on your experiences, what advice will you give your kids about alcohol, sexual violations, and rape?

Not PP but my discussions with my kids about alcohol will be completely separate from my discussions with them about sexual violations and rape because they are two different animals.

If only life's experiences could be so neatly compartmentalized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Are you noticing, pp, that the more you take this conversation into rational, intelligent thinking, the more emotional and mean the comments get?

This is because you are 100% correct and these folk know it. They are trying to ignore facts, using phrases like "accidentally drunk" and not wanting to acknowledge that he was drunk and impaired as well. The CA law states "and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused. ". When someone is as drunk as this boy's lab test indicated, there is a question as to whether or not this criteria was met. It would take a mighty strong judge to face the political fallout had he/she ruled otherwise. That is why, though, the boy got a light sentence, and rightfully so. Personally, were I the judge, I would have ruled otherwise.

Here's the difference between her drunk and his drunk:

She was unconscious

He was conscious

Ergo, the onus was on him to determine SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSENTING TO BE FINGERED BEHIND A DUMPSTER

You don't know when she went from consciousness to unconsciousness, and you don't know, therefore, if she gave consent or not. When she WAS conscious, she was physically engaged with him.

She doesn't remember what happened. You are taking the word of a convicted rapist. He has an interest is saying she was engaged and consented.

He is patently lying about that. He didn't say that when he was first arrested. He ran away from the scene. This only came up once he had a defense lawyer on board to help him create a defensible story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

The conversation I"m going to have: You don't have to say "can I touch your breast" in a robot voice, but use your words. Channel Barry White, and say "Hey baby, you look fine and I really want to fool around with you, does that sound good." Say: "I'm really turned on and I want to fuck you, do you want me?" And if you don't know her well enough to ask, or you ask and she doesn't respond, or you ask and she says no, or you ask and you realize she's unconscious and covered in vomit, then you do not have sex with her!

I have never actually been drunk, but sometimes I wonder if a drunk male will always have the good sense to do this, or if there will be a lot of miscommunication. Again, I have never been drunk, but I have observed other people being drunk, and I wonder how much control they really have over themselves and how considerate they are capable of being. As I get older and I see more and more stories like this I feel thankful for my prudish ways.

NP, but when you take a girl behind a dumpster, you know what you're doing is wrong. It's not the drunk-ness making you do that - it's that still active, inside voice saying "fuck I know this is wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway I just don't want anyone to notice" behavior. This POS knew right from wrong - he made a deliberate choice to still act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

Completely ignores PP's poin. The only way comments like yours an pad others magpie sense is to pretend his blood work didn't show him well over the limit (i.e. Drunk as well) and to pretend his judgement wasn't also impaired by alcohol. If you read that CA law? Ignores that fact too. No surprise.

It ignores that fact because it's irrelevant, just like it is for virtually every violent crime. But somehow if there was a thread about an inner city kid who shot someone outside a club after a night of drinking, not a single person would be raising his blood alcohol content as a defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

True fact: I drank a lot of alcohol in college and did not finger any unconscious women behind a dumpster.

True fact: Not everyone has the same intelligence level, emotional maturity, social experience, impulse control, ability to handle alcohol,etc.

How about when in doubt, don't have sex with the person. No mental gymnastics or genius needed. Can't figure it out? THEN JUST STOP.

Okay, so should he be asking her for permission for every single thing he does? Is he supposed to ask for permission to kiss her first? At each stage of the progression does he need to stop and ask her if what he's doing is Ok? What about when she is progressing things in her own physical manner? What is the conversation then? Or isn't there one?

Again, how many drinks constitute her ability to give consent? Does she specifically have to say the word yes, or it's ok?

For the parents of kids who are of the age where this is a pertinent discussion to have, what are the conversations you're having with your children to have with their potential parents regarding consent?

Are you noticing, pp, that the more you take this conversation into rational, intelligent thinking, the more emotional and mean the comments get?

This is because you are 100% correct and these folk know it. They are trying to ignore facts, using phrases like "accidentally drunk" and not wanting to acknowledge that he was drunk and impaired as well. The CA law states "and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused. ". When someone is as drunk as this boy's lab test indicated, there is a question as to whether or not this criteria was met. It would take a mighty strong judge to face the political fallout had he/she ruled otherwise. That is why, though, the boy got a light sentence, and rightfully so. Personally, were I the judge, I would have ruled otherwise.

Here's the difference between her drunk and his drunk:

She was unconscious

He was conscious

Ergo, the onus was on him to determine SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSENTING TO BE FINGERED BEHIND A DUMPSTER

You don't know when she went from consciousness to unconsciousness, and you don't know, therefore, if she gave consent or not. When she WAS conscious, she was physically engaged with him.

She doesn't remember what happened. You are taking the word of a convicted rapist. He has an interest is saying she was engaged and consented.

He is patently lying about that. He didn't say that when he was first arrested. He ran away from the scene. This only came up once he had a defense lawyer on board to help him create a defensible story.

Other people saw them (allegedly together) at the party -- no one was willing to testify for the prosecutor or the defense.