AAP Center Elimination Rumors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids, all of whom have been in AAP. I do not agree that centers should stay, at least at the MS level.

I have no jealousy or reason to be bitter. I just have seen with my own eyes the difference between a center and a base school, and I fully believe centers in middle school are a waste.

Sorry but I agree with this. Our oldest was in the program when it was still GT and AAP is much different. When it was a true special education program it was easy to see why some kids needed it. Now it really is a program for bright kids but not truly gifted.

Our younger kids were in AAP and by middle school, there just wasn’t a need for centers. Not convinced centers are needed at all anymore since more schools offer advanced math and differentiate for the other subjects. It’s all out the window in high school anyway and at the end of senior year many of the top students were never in the program to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait. When they don't get in TJ, self-esteem flies away.

+1
I mean, surely FCPS has done a study on AAP kids and outcomes once in high school and beyond? Once high school starts, all of these kids are in honors and AP classes together and many of the prior "GE" kids far outpace prior "AAP" kids, to include attending much better colleges. The labeling at the age of seven is doing no one any favors.

+1

It’s only around because some parents want segregation from the poors.

Not our experience. In high school, the AAP kids are doing better in the honors and AP classes. There are some kids with no AAP experience who are trying an honors class and it’s difficult for them as they aren’t used to the challenge. Many also didn’t develop the work ethic or study skills that the AAP kids did because their curriculum was harder.

Laughing SO HARD at this elementary school mom trying to pretend she has kids in high school and knows who all of their classmates in every single one of their AP and Honors classes are. DYING, PP. It wasn't even a good attempt at trolling!!!

Agree. My kid exceeded most of the AAP kids. And, I know of one who quickly dropped out of college--and did not do that well in high school. Another did not even bother to go to college. He was the one whose mom bragged about needing the center so that the kids would not make trouble in GenEd because they were bored.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of this is due to the change from second to third grade. With both of my kids it was a huge jump--and they were in GenEd. I think the AAP parents assume the jump is due to AAP, when it is really a grade level issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids, all of whom have been in AAP. I do not agree that centers should stay, at least at the MS level.

I have no jealousy or reason to be bitter. I just have seen with my own eyes the difference between a center and a base school, and I fully believe centers in middle school are a waste.

Sorry but I agree with this. Our oldest was in the program when it was still GT and AAP is much different. When it was a true special education program it was easy to see why some kids needed it. Now it really is a program for bright kids but not truly gifted.

Our younger kids were in AAP and by middle school, there just wasn’t a need for centers. Not convinced centers are needed at all anymore since more schools offer advanced math and differentiate for the other subjects. It’s all out the window in high school anyway and at the end of senior year many of the top students were never in the program to begin with.

They don’t even read books in lower SES middle schools “honors” classes. Sorry but centers are still needed but maybe not for low FARMs MS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Are you serious? The elimination of leveled classrooms/tracking and the mainstreaming of remedial and special ed students was the result of parents of those students pushing for mainstreaming. Parents of advanced and on-level kids didn't do any of this to you - point your finger at your own counterparts from the last decades.

Currently, you could advocate for more tracking in every school - but I'd be ready from blowback from other parents who don't want to see their kid in the remedial class, even if it would be the best fit.

LOLing at you saying AAP parents didn't cause this. PLEASE. Parents are absolutely the reason there is a bloated AAP program full of normal children who belong in GenEd.

+1
I blame FCPS for allowing this system to get so bloated and out of control. What a joke it is now, compared to when they had a tiny and excellent GT program.

So your kid didn't make it into AAP but you're arguing to reduce the number of other kids' access to AAP.
What do you get out of this? Your kid isn't getting in either way. Is it spite that drives this behavior?

DP. So you're admitting that your kid is at the bottom of aap? Otherwise you would be happy to get rid of the low performers and elevate the class as a whole.

No. My kids are legitimately gifted. I don't covet what those kids have and have no reason to be spiteful like you apparently do. Low performers haven't impacted our school 's AAP classrooms. The teachers don't appear to slow down for stragglers. They move through material and you either get it or you don't.

Every AAP parent says this, LOL!

+100
It's such a tell. The only reason AAP was opened up to the masses is because of the ridiculous "equity" push. Same with TJ. Both AAP and TJ admissions need to go back to merit ONLY, and take only the top 5% of students. The ones who absolutely need a gifted curriculum - which AAP is certainly not.

No, the tell is those of you who don't realize that there is a whole world outside of FCPS for gifted people. There are a lot of resources for gifted children to be able to learn and grow outside of school and FCPS isn't the beginning or end of education. There really isn't a need to obsess over AAP.

Great, it sounds like your child is getting enough enrichment from all of your outside gifted people resources and doesn't need a separate "advanced" curriculum in school. We all agree, woohoo!

Nope. VA still requires gifted education. AAP won't be going away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Are you serious? The elimination of leveled classrooms/tracking and the mainstreaming of remedial and special ed students was the result of parents of those students pushing for mainstreaming. Parents of advanced and on-level kids didn't do any of this to you - point your finger at your own counterparts from the last decades.

Currently, you could advocate for more tracking in every school - but I'd be ready from blowback from other parents who don't want to see their kid in the remedial class, even if it would be the best fit.

LOLing at you saying AAP parents didn't cause this. PLEASE. Parents are absolutely the reason there is a bloated AAP program full of normal children who belong in GenEd.

+1
I blame FCPS for allowing this system to get so bloated and out of control. What a joke it is now, compared to when they had a tiny and excellent GT program.

So your kid didn't make it into AAP but you're arguing to reduce the number of other kids' access to AAP.
What do you get out of this? Your kid isn't getting in either way. Is it spite that drives this behavior?

DP. So you're admitting that your kid is at the bottom of aap? Otherwise you would be happy to get rid of the low performers and elevate the class as a whole.

No. My kids are legitimately gifted. I don't covet what those kids have and have no reason to be spiteful like you apparently do. Low performers haven't impacted our school 's AAP classrooms. The teachers don't appear to slow down for stragglers. They move through material and you either get it or you don't.

Every AAP parent says this, LOL!

+100
It's such a tell. The only reason AAP was opened up to the masses is because of the ridiculous "equity" push. Same with TJ. Both AAP and TJ admissions need to go back to merit ONLY, and take only the top 5% of students. The ones who absolutely need a gifted curriculum - which AAP is certainly not.

No, the tell is those of you who don't realize that there is a whole world outside of FCPS for gifted people. There are a lot of resources for gifted children to be able to learn and grow outside of school and FCPS isn't the beginning or end of education. There really isn't a need to obsess over AAP.

Great, it sounds like your child is getting enough enrichment from all of your outside gifted people resources and doesn't need a separate "advanced" curriculum in school. We all agree, woohoo!

Nope. VA still requires gifted education. AAP won't be going away.

They need to go back to GT. Get rid of AAP centers. Make it truly selective and objective--

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait. When they don't get in TJ, self-esteem flies away.

+1
I mean, surely FCPS has done a study on AAP kids and outcomes once in high school and beyond? Once high school starts, all of these kids are in honors and AP classes together and many of the prior "GE" kids far outpace prior "AAP" kids, to include attending much better colleges. The labeling at the age of seven is doing no one any favors.

+1

It’s only around because some parents want segregation from the poors.

Not our experience. In high school, the AAP kids are doing better in the honors and AP classes. There are some kids with no AAP experience who are trying an honors class and it’s difficult for them as they aren’t used to the challenge. Many also didn’t develop the work ethic or study skills that the AAP kids did because their curriculum was harder.

Congratulations! You just made the argument that the top of GE kids should get a chance to be exposed to the curriculum too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait. When they don't get in TJ, self-esteem flies away.

+1
I mean, surely FCPS has done a study on AAP kids and outcomes once in high school and beyond? Once high school starts, all of these kids are in honors and AP classes together and many of the prior "GE" kids far outpace prior "AAP" kids, to include attending much better colleges. The labeling at the age of seven is doing no one any favors.

+1

It’s only around because some parents want segregation from the poors.

Not our experience. In high school, the AAP kids are doing better in the honors and AP classes. There are some kids with no AAP experience who are trying an honors class and it’s difficult for them as they aren’t used to the challenge. Many also didn’t develop the work ethic or study skills that the AAP kids did because their curriculum was harder.

Congratulations! You just made the argument that the top of GE kids should get a chance to be exposed to the curriculum too!

Her elementary school had a great curriculum. Encouraging and challenging. You don't need to segregate kids to provide that

You might want to research and find out what the most important thing is to increase learning and achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait. When they don't get in TJ, self-esteem flies away.

+1
I mean, surely FCPS has done a study on AAP kids and outcomes once in high school and beyond? Once high school starts, all of these kids are in honors and AP classes together and many of the prior "GE" kids far outpace prior "AAP" kids, to include attending much better colleges. The labeling at the age of seven is doing no one any favors.

+1

It’s only around because some parents want segregation from the poors.

Not our experience. In high school, the AAP kids are doing better in the honors and AP classes. There are some kids with no AAP experience who are trying an honors class and it’s difficult for them as they aren’t used to the challenge. Many also didn’t develop the work ethic or study skills that the AAP kids did because their curriculum was harder.

Congratulations! You just made the argument that the top of GE kids should get a chance to be exposed to the curriculum too!

Her elementary school had a great curriculum. Encouraging and challenging. You don't need to segregate kids to provide that

You might want to research and find out what the most important thing is to increase learning and achievement.

Yes, right now the top of GE kids are sitting around waiting for others to catch up most of the time. I don't see how I can help instill good study habits when DC is getting 100 on tests with little to no effort. DC is one of the segregated students who deserves access to the curriculum in the classroom that is right next door, but doesn't get it because the local school is a center and the educators who know DC don't get to make that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids, all of whom have been in AAP. I do not agree that centers should stay, at least at the MS level.

I have no jealousy or reason to be bitter. I just have seen with my own eyes the difference between a center and a base school, and I fully believe centers in middle school are a waste.

Sorry but I agree with this. Our oldest was in the program when it was still GT and AAP is much different. When it was a true special education program it was easy to see why some kids needed it. Now it really is a program for bright kids but not truly gifted.

Our younger kids were in AAP and by middle school, there just wasn’t a need for centers. Not convinced centers are needed at all anymore since more schools offer advanced math and differentiate for the other subjects. It’s all out the window in high school anyway and at the end of senior year many of the top students were never in the program to begin with.

They don’t even read books in lower SES middle schools “honors” classes. Sorry but centers are still needed but maybe not for low FARMs MS

I've sent kids through both our local base MS (in AAP classes) and our local center (in AAP classes). The base school read four full-length books, as well as a bunch of short stories, poems, and dramas. The center read one book and fewer short stories and poems. They didn't read any dramas.

I'm aware not every school is the same, but the above was our experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait. When they don't get in TJ, self-esteem flies away.

+1
I mean, surely FCPS has done a study on AAP kids and outcomes once in high school and beyond? Once high school starts, all of these kids are in honors and AP classes together and many of the prior "GE" kids far outpace prior "AAP" kids, to include attending much better colleges. The labeling at the age of seven is doing no one any favors.

+1

It’s only around because some parents want segregation from the poors.

Not our experience. In high school, the AAP kids are doing better in the honors and AP classes. There are some kids with no AAP experience who are trying an honors class and it’s difficult for them as they aren’t used to the challenge. Many also didn’t develop the work ethic or study skills that the AAP kids did because their curriculum was harder.

Congratulations! You just made the argument that the top of GE kids should get a chance to be exposed to the curriculum too!

Her elementary school had a great curriculum. Encouraging and challenging. You don't need to segregate kids to provide that

You might want to research and find out what the most important thing is to increase learning and achievement.

Yes, right now the top of GE kids are sitting around waiting for others to catch up most of the time. I don't see how I can help instill good study habits when DC is getting 100 on tests with little to no effort. DC is one of the segregated students who deserves access to the curriculum in the classroom that is right next door, but doesn't get it because the local school is a center and the educators who know DC don't get to make that choice.

There will always be a cut off. Even if your kid gets in, it just shifts the cut off criteria lower and then the next kid will be hitting the cut off and complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait. When they don't get in TJ, self-esteem flies away.

+1
I mean, surely FCPS has done a study on AAP kids and outcomes once in high school and beyond? Once high school starts, all of these kids are in honors and AP classes together and many of the prior "GE" kids far outpace prior "AAP" kids, to include attending much better colleges. The labeling at the age of seven is doing no one any favors.

+1

It’s only around because some parents want segregation from the poors.

Not our experience. In high school, the AAP kids are doing better in the honors and AP classes. There are some kids with no AAP experience who are trying an honors class and it’s difficult for them as they aren’t used to the challenge. Many also didn’t develop the work ethic or study skills that the AAP kids did because their curriculum was harder.

Congratulations! You just made the argument that the top of GE kids should get a chance to be exposed to the curriculum too!

Her elementary school had a great curriculum. Encouraging and challenging. You don't need to segregate kids to provide that

You might want to research and find out what the most important thing is to increase learning and achievement.

Yes, right now the top of GE kids are sitting around waiting for others to catch up most of the time. I don't see how I can help instill good study habits when DC is getting 100 on tests with little to no effort. DC is one of the segregated students who deserves access to the curriculum in the classroom that is right next door, but doesn't get it because the local school is a center and the educators who know DC don't get to make that choice.

There will always be a cut off. Even if your kid gets in, it just shifts the cut off criteria lower and then the next kid will be hitting the cut off and complaining.

They use a lot of meeting every kid where they are at talking points. Just want that to be the reality. For everyone...

[Anonymous]

es, right now the top of GE kids are sitting around waiting for others to catch up most of the time. I don't see how I can help instill good study habits when DC is getting 100 on tests with little to no effort. DC is one of the segregated students who deserves access to the curriculum in the classroom that is right next door, but doesn't get it because the local school is a center and the educators who know DC don't get to make that choice.

Where do you get your information?
This is not the way it works. And, if this is what is going on in your child's class, you should complain to the administration.

Do you not realize that even in AAP the kids are not on the same level? Do you think there are no accommodations in the classrooms--GenEd or AAP-- for different skill and achievement levels? Do you think the teacher gives the same thing every day to every child?

Here is a little secret: there is lots of leveling within a classroom in elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids, all of whom have been in AAP. I do not agree that centers should stay, at least at the MS level.

I have no jealousy or reason to be bitter. I just have seen with my own eyes the difference between a center and a base school, and I fully believe centers in middle school are a waste.

Sorry but I agree with this. Our oldest was in the program when it was still GT and AAP is much different. When it was a true special education program it was easy to see why some kids needed it. Now it really is a program for bright kids but not truly gifted.

Our younger kids were in AAP and by middle school, there just wasn’t a need for centers. Not convinced centers are needed at all anymore since more schools offer advanced math and differentiate for the other subjects. It’s all out the window in high school anyway and at the end of senior year many of the top students were never in the program to begin with.

They don’t even read books in lower SES middle schools “honors” classes. Sorry but centers are still needed but maybe not for low FARMs MS

I've sent kids through both our local base MS (in AAP classes) and our local center (in AAP classes). The base school read four full-length books, as well as a bunch of short stories, poems, and dramas. The center read one book and fewer short stories and poems. They didn't read any dramas.

I'm aware not every school is the same, but the above was our experience.

AAP is not honors. Not every MS has AAP and there doesn’t appear to be a plan for that. Gate kept AAP, local or center, can read books. “Honors” at lower SES don’t read books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

es, right now the top of GE kids are sitting around waiting for others to catch up most of the time. I don't see how I can help instill good study habits when DC is getting 100 on tests with little to no effort. DC is one of the segregated students who deserves access to the curriculum in the classroom that is right next door, but doesn't get it because the local school is a center and the educators who know DC don't get to make that choice.

Where do you get your information?
This is not the way it works. And, if this is what is going on in your child's class, you should complain to the administration.

Do you not realize that even in AAP the kids are not on the same level? Do you think there are no accommodations in the classrooms--GenEd or AAP-- for different skill and achievement levels? Do you think the teacher gives the same thing every day to every child?

Here is a little secret: there is lots of leveling within a classroom in elementary school.

From my kids teacher who claimed she was doing everything she could to keep him busy, but she was afraid that she just couldn't do for dc what dc needed because time needed to be allocated to the below grade level kids more than to the kids who are ahead. Half the kids in the grade had access to the aap curriculum (base school is a center, and level 4 classes are over crowded), but the ge teachers didn't have/ couldn't easily do those extensions without more support from the school/ system.