New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I are going to have to put off having kids due to this - I’m going to need to get a new job and restart the clock to take FMLA. I’m 33 and it sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Staggered schedules. Before remote work, I went in at 6:45 and was home by 3:45 to do pickup and DH did school drop off at 8 and was home by 7:15. Our kids are older now, so they can be home alone if needed, but the big issue for us is sports practices. The good news is that DH and I both carried over the max last year and earn 27 days of leave a year so we will be able to take a couple hours of leave each week for emergencies. Additionally, we both accrued quite a lot of sickleave over the past five years because we did not need to take leave when we were sick and could just work from home. It means that we will plan doctors appointments for days that we otherwise would need to be home. I took some sickleave when I had kids, but DH has probably taken two sick days the entire time he’s been a fed (20 years).

Am I the only sucker who took sick leave to be sick and go to (take my kids to) appointments?

Nope I also took sick leave, including when I was teleworking and did not have childcare. Like if both my husband and I were teleworking we’d split the day so I’d take sick leave when I was in charge of the kids.

Many in my agency put in 50-60 hr weeks, mostly teleworking since our stakeholders are in multiple time zones and countries. We rarely use sick leave for appointments b/c we work more than enough hours to cover 40 hr requirement. Only use sick leave if actually sick and can’t work or we need to be offline for more than half a day.

This is PP, yeah I would often be online working while caring for my kids but you are supposed to take sick leave if you don’t have childcare. If it was during core hours, or if I did my catch up work after 10 pm or on the weekends, there is no way to report it on my tine card. Guess I was a sucker for following the rules

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Staggered schedules. Before remote work, I went in at 6:45 and was home by 3:45 to do pickup and DH did school drop off at 8 and was home by 7:15. Our kids are older now, so they can be home alone if needed, but the big issue for us is sports practices. The good news is that DH and I both carried over the max last year and earn 27 days of leave a year so we will be able to take a couple hours of leave each week for emergencies. Additionally, we both accrued quite a lot of sickleave over the past five years because we did not need to take leave when we were sick and could just work from home. It means that we will plan doctors appointments for days that we otherwise would need to be home. I took some sickleave when I had kids, but DH has probably taken two sick days the entire time he’s been a fed (20 years).

Am I the only sucker who took sick leave to be sick and go to (take my kids to) appointments?

Nope I also took sick leave, including when I was teleworking and did not have childcare. Like if both my husband and I were teleworking we’d split the day so I’d take sick leave when I was in charge of the kids.

Many in my agency put in 50-60 hr weeks, mostly teleworking since our stakeholders are in multiple time zones and countries. We rarely use sick leave for appointments b/c we work more than enough hours to cover 40 hr requirement. Only use sick leave if actually sick and can’t work or we need to be offline for more than half a day.

Me too - but I still take / took sick leave. I think these ad hoc arrangements are why we find ourselves where we are at. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no telework people, none!

Aside from everyone under a union contract and offices with no space...so lots of telework

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mom who didn't have school aged kids pre covid here. I know I might sound whinny (and your posts have all been very helpful for a view of pre covid parent life) but all that sounds so exhausting. Just more coordination, more floating pieces, more unhappy children and more pressure on spouse. I know you all did it before but life has only gotten more complicated with time and parents are already stretched thin. Something will have to give. Society can adjust when everyone goes into work 5x a week but it might not with only feds back in office. Those camps and aftercares might not add extra hours or weeks, schools might still expect parents to volunteer or come in for whatever, and extracurriculars might not accommodate.

Only 10% of the US workforce is remote and something like 20% is hybrid. Expectations of parents have always been out of sync with reality and made WOH a nightmare. Employers have a role to play, but they alone can’t solve a cost of living and childcare crisis that are intertwined. Many people went back to work at least on a hybrid schedule at the beginning of 2022, so feds are joining the party very late and will benefit from demand for before and after programs as well as other programs required by working parents over the last 3+ years.

[Anonymous]

It's going to take my organization years to find and build out space for everyone. So for now, sitting tight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Staggered schedules. Before remote work, I went in at 6:45 and was home by 3:45 to do pickup and DH did school drop off at 8 and was home by 7:15. Our kids are older now, so they can be home alone if needed, but the big issue for us is sports practices. The good news is that DH and I both carried over the max last year and earn 27 days of leave a year so we will be able to take a couple hours of leave each week for emergencies. Additionally, we both accrued quite a lot of sickleave over the past five years because we did not need to take leave when we were sick and could just work from home. It means that we will plan doctors appointments for days that we otherwise would need to be home. I took some sickleave when I had kids, but DH has probably taken two sick days the entire time he’s been a fed (20 years).

Am I the only sucker who took sick leave to be sick and go to (take my kids to) appointments?

No, I am low on sick and annual leave because I have little kids and I took off for every minute and hour and appointment. I did things the right way and you are not alone.

My kids are older but I was basically expected to telework when they were home sick. I just handed them an iPad. I did take sick leave when I was incapable of working (too sick or at appointments).

I don’t take this to mean people telework while they were in appointments or while they were actively sick, but if I had doctors appointment, I could take that appointment and work an extra hour or two and still need my 8 to 9 hour requirement without having to take any leave. Similarly, my kids are old enough that if they are home sick, I might wanna be home with them, but wouldn’t need to take leave because I didn’t have to mind them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned it earlier - but are there agencies that do not require the 30 minute unpaid lunch? If so, how do they get around it? An 8 hour day vs an 8.5 hour day would actually make a big difference for me.

I am curious too? If I can do 7-3, that would be game changer. My kids are just old enough to be home alone for 30 minutes. 7-3:30 would make it stickier. I go in 2-3 days a week now and always work 8.5 hour days, even though I eat lunch at my desk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom who didn't have school aged kids pre covid here. I know I might sound whinny (and your posts have all been very helpful for a view of pre covid parent life) but all that sounds so exhausting. Just more coordination, more floating pieces, more unhappy children and more pressure on spouse. I know you all did it before but life has only gotten more complicated with time and parents are already stretched thin. Something will have to give. Society can adjust when everyone goes into work 5x a week but it might not with only feds back in office. Those camps and aftercares might not add extra hours or weeks, schools might still expect parents to volunteer or come in for whatever, and extracurriculars might not accommodate.

Only 10% of the US workforce is remote and something like 20% is hybrid. Expectations of parents have always been out of sync with reality and made WOH a nightmare. Employers have a role to play, but they alone can’t solve a cost of living and childcare crisis that are intertwined. Many people went back to work at least on a hybrid schedule at the beginning of 2022, so feds are joining the party very late and will benefit from demand for before and after programs as well as other programs required by working parents over the last 3+ years.

OMG most feds are on a hybrid schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are going to have to put off having kids due to this - I’m going to need to get a new job and restart the clock to take FMLA. I’m 33 and it sucks.

As if all couples with 2 FT jobs remained childless before WFH? Seriously, you will manage with the same options that were available to working parents pre-covid- daycare, camps, babysitter, school, juggling with spouse, etc. Please stop pretending that juggling work and kids hasn’t been done before and can’t be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

Mine were in daycare before Covid so I wasn't dealing with school timings, afterschool activities etc. - it was open long hrs and still is. But yes my kids basically did a longer day - mornings were busy and evening time was rushed too, more limited time with kids - yes it's bad and sucks.

Agree with another PP that basically parents were even more stretched and had less time with kids OR someone left the workforce / had a very PT job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom who didn't have school aged kids pre covid here. I know I might sound whinny (and your posts have all been very helpful for a view of pre covid parent life) but all that sounds so exhausting. Just more coordination, more floating pieces, more unhappy children and more pressure on spouse. I know you all did it before but life has only gotten more complicated with time and parents are already stretched thin. Something will have to give. Society can adjust when everyone goes into work 5x a week but it might not with only feds back in office. Those camps and aftercares might not add extra hours or weeks, schools might still expect parents to volunteer or come in for whatever, and extracurriculars might not accommodate.

Only 10% of the US workforce is remote and something like 20% is hybrid. Expectations of parents have always been out of sync with reality and made WOH a nightmare. Employers have a role to play, but they alone can’t solve a cost of living and childcare crisis that are intertwined. Many people went back to work at least on a hybrid schedule at the beginning of 2022, so feds are joining the party very late and will benefit from demand for before and after programs as well as other programs required by working parents over the last 3+ years.

OMG most feds are on a hybrid schedule.

+1 and I WFH 2 days per wk as a fed before Covid. So ppl are losing flexibility that isn't even new

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom who didn't have school aged kids pre covid here. I know I might sound whinny (and your posts have all been very helpful for a view of pre covid parent life) but all that sounds so exhausting. Just more coordination, more floating pieces, more unhappy children and more pressure on spouse. I know you all did it before but life has only gotten more complicated with time and parents are already stretched thin. Something will have to give. Society can adjust when everyone goes into work 5x a week but it might not with only feds back in office. Those camps and aftercares might not add extra hours or weeks, schools might still expect parents to volunteer or come in for whatever, and extracurriculars might not accommodate.

Only 10% of the US workforce is remote and something like 20% is hybrid. Expectations of parents have always been out of sync with reality and made WOH a nightmare. Employers have a role to play, but they alone can’t solve a cost of living and childcare crisis that are intertwined. Many people went back to work at least on a hybrid schedule at the beginning of 2022, so feds are joining the party very late and will benefit from demand for before and after programs as well as other programs required by working parents over the last 3+ years.

OMG most feds are on a hybrid schedule.

Why are you freaking out and writing paragraphs about before/after care and school volunteering if this is business as usual?