MIT releases post-affirmative action class of 2028 data

[Anonymous]

South Asians have become exceedingly rare in higher Ed, while you can’t throw a stone without there being an East Asian student. Seen many bitter rivalries between the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

Sentiment won't change overnight.
They need to earn it over time..
Revisit in 10 years.

Why the F would they have to "earn" it??? The whole premise of this discussion is that no affirmative action has been applied.

Because 50 years of affirmative action has taught the institution that URM students are less qualified.
It will take a while for the institution to unlearn that

Accepted across the board this year with the same AP classes, the same AP scores, the same ACT or SAT scores, the same ECs... and still less qualified?

Please point out how and/or where?

They're not less qualified at all but institutions have memories.
After 50 years of admitting underqualified students based on skin color, there is institutional assumption that many of the URM are underqualified.
This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there.
But these attitudes will not change overnight, it took 50 years of unearned preferences to develop these attitudes and it will probably take at least 4-10 years for these attitudes to adjust to the new reality.

The only people who ever think about things like this are racists. I guess that makes you one!

PP. Baseless accusations of racism have little effect these days. They have absolutely no effect on an anonymous chat board.
I was responding to a question about this topic.
If your primary argument is an accusation of racism, you have lost the argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

Sentiment won't change overnight.
They need to earn it over time..
Revisit in 10 years.

Why the F would they have to "earn" it??? The whole premise of this discussion is that no affirmative action has been applied.

Because 50 years of affirmative action has taught the institution that URM students are less qualified.
It will take a while for the institution to unlearn that

Accepted across the board this year with the same AP classes, the same AP scores, the same ACT or SAT scores, the same ECs... and still less qualified?

Please point out how and/or where?

They're not less qualified at all but institutions have memories.
After 50 years of admitting underqualified students based on skin color, there is institutional assumption that many of the URM are underqualified.
This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there.
But these attitudes will not change overnight, it took 50 years of unearned preferences to develop these attitudes and it will probably take at least 4-10 years for these attitudes to adjust to the new reality.

Such a load of crap. Even the weakest admits to MIT have always been top notch students. You can insist that someone who missed 8 questions on the SAT is innately less qualified than someone who only missed 3 questions. Enjoy yourself and your game of Sudoku/Solitaire/Wordle or whatever it is you do to pass time alone.

Yes I agree this was not as bad at MIT as at other colleges. This is why I said "This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there." But clearly there was in fact a difference. I don't think anyone that went to MIT is unqualified but some of them were less qualified than others and it was color coded. If you didn't want people to think this then you shouldn't have supported affirmative action.

BTW, 8 questions wrong is ~1450. 3 questions wrong is ~1550. That's the difference between the 95th percentile and the 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

Sentiment won't change overnight.
They need to earn it over time..
Revisit in 10 years.

Why the F would they have to "earn" it??? The whole premise of this discussion is that no affirmative action has been applied.

Because 50 years of affirmative action has taught the institution that URM students are less qualified.
It will take a while for the institution to unlearn that

Accepted across the board this year with the same AP classes, the same AP scores, the same ACT or SAT scores, the same ECs... and still less qualified?

Please point out how and/or where?

They're not less qualified at all but institutions have memories.
After 50 years of admitting underqualified students based on skin color, there is institutional assumption that many of the URM are underqualified.
This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there.
But these attitudes will not change overnight, it took 50 years of unearned preferences to develop these attitudes and it will probably take at least 4-10 years for these attitudes to adjust to the new reality.

Such a load of crap. Even the weakest admits to MIT have always been top notch students. You can insist that someone who missed 8 questions on the SAT is innately less qualified than someone who only missed 3 questions. Enjoy yourself and your game of Sudoku/Solitaire/Wordle or whatever it is you do to pass time alone.

Yes I agree this was not as bad at MIT as at other colleges. This is why I said "This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there." But clearly there was in fact a difference. I don't think anyone that went to MIT is unqualified but some of them were less qualified than others and it was color coded. If you didn't want people to think this then you shouldn't have supported affirmative action.

BTW, 8 questions wrong is ~1450. 3 questions wrong is ~1550. That's the difference between the 95th percentile and the 99th percentile.

Maybe I’m crazy, but that doesn’t sound very substantial and seems like the SAT needs to work on calibration. I think the ACT has much better bands for the type of student the scores represent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

How many black and Hispanic students go to top/well-funded high schools to take these courses? The bulk of minorities at these institutions are rich or educationally-privileged, because you need to be. No inner city child really makes it to the gates, even before the end of AA

I guess they would argue there are plenty Asian questbridge kids.

As you drop down the socioeconomic ladder the relative asian academic advantage gets stronger. Their culture gives them an almost religious faith in the value of education that makes gut wrenching sacrifices possible for these families in pursuit of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As expected. But a little surprised by the decline in Latino students. There are a gazillion students with at least a grandparent from Latin America. Lots of Brazilian, Argentinian, Chilean families value education.

Only 2% of Latino students score over 700 in math SAT, so you simply should not expect to see a lot of them at MIT.

If you're going by over 700 SAT math, MIT should be about
47% Asian
43% White
3% Black
7% Hispanic

Actual class of 2027 is not too far off from that
47% Asian
37% White
5% Black
11% Hispanic

Now do 790 SAT.

If MIT just tracked SAT math scores, it would be even more Asian.

At MIT, 25% percentile for SAT math is 790 and 75% percentile is 800.

For 800 math scores, here is the national breakdown by race:

Asian 3%
White <1%
Mixed race <1%
Native American <1%
Black <1%
Hispanic <1%
Pacific Islander <1%

For 750+ math scores, here is the national breakdown by race:

Asian 22%
White 4%
Mixed race 4%
Native American 1%
Black <1%
Hispanic 1%
Pacific Islander 1%

no one wants to learn or create or live in a bubble of people selected based on SAT math scores.

Except for really rigorous environments like the folks developing fusion energy or the algorithmic trading hedge funds or anywhere competence actually matters.

God I hope my kid who really is crazy math talented uses his gifts on fusion energy and not algorithmic trading.

[Anonymous]

I went to MIT before racial affirmative action or DEI. I probably got in because I came from a small town in the South. My county didn't HAVE calculus in high school. I never saw an integral sign before 1st day of 18.0. I am white. My math SAT was lower than my verbal.

I graduated with a 4.6/5.0 in physics.

Eff off you racists going on about unqualified admits.

We catch up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is not fair to remove programs at MIT that help disadvantaged URMs. Affirmative action for women at MIT has a much bigger effect than affirmative action for URMs ever did. Nobody criticizes that because it benefits wealthy people.

I really hope they stay committed to it. People here don't care about diversity since they are majority white and wealthy, but I think scientific excellence in the black and hispanic community is important to not just the black/hispanic community in terms of representation but can have a tangible benefit to those communities.

Yeah but when you just pretend the excellence exists it doesn't help much at all.

Black and Hispanic excellence does exist. It’s just not to the inflated levels that top colleges are trying to push.

PP. I didn't mean to imply that ALL the black and hispanic students don't belong there but about half of them don't. And when Harvard should be taking 8% black students but ends up digging a little deeper to get 15%, then all of the students that should have gone to a place like brown end up going to places like harvard. Then places like brown (which should be taking 8% black students ALSO takes 15% they end up taking all the students that should have gone to a place like Georgetown AND NYU. Then places like georgetown and NYU have dig even deeper because they don't just want 8% either, they want 15% so they end up taking the students that would otherwise have gone to syracuse AND boston college AND perdue AND Northeastern. I may have gotten some of the rankings mixed up but you get the point, each successive tier of schools has to dig deeper and deeper until the racial gaps of admitted students starts to get ludicrously big.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is not fair to remove programs at MIT that help disadvantaged URMs. Affirmative action for women at MIT has a much bigger effect than affirmative action for URMs ever did. Nobody criticizes that because it benefits wealthy people.

How does affirmative action at MIT help women?
Have you ever been to MIT. The women are all asian and they are no wealthier than the average MIT satudent. The only group where the man don't outnumber the women... by a LOT... is the asians. Those asian women tend to be as smart as anyone else there.

They were still much less likely to get in for many many years before mit made it easier for women to get in. Women representation is also pretty important for sciences.

Colleges are graduating more women with 4 year degrees than men with 4 year degrees.
Law schools are graduating more female lawyers than male lawyers.
Medical schools are graduating more female doctors than male doctors.
Are you sure women need artificial preferences?

In Physics, CS, and Engineering, women do jarringly poorly compared to men and are not even close to the majority of graduates. They need the push lol

Why? Why can't we just have a lot of female doctors and lawyers and let there be more male engineers and computer scientists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

a lo
Mostly because it’s not offered at the high schools they attend.

There are a gazillion black and hispanic students in schools that offer calculus and mv.

MIT is discovering the cultural thing. There just aren't a lot of black or hispanic families that really value the math and science grind.

DP: "Approximately 35% of schools with high enrollments of Black and Latino students offered calculus, compared to 54% of schools with low enrollments of Black and Latino students."

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-student-access-enrollment.pdf

I wish people realized how disparate education outcomes are in this nation. Being born black and low income in the US is basically like running in molasses for most of your life.

I grew up with a lot of poor haitians, they are almost all upper middle class now. They didn't seem to be running through molasses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

How many black and Hispanic students go to top/well-funded high schools to take these courses? The bulk of minorities at these institutions are rich or educationally-privileged, because you need to be. No inner city child really makes it to the gates, even before the end of AA

Not really.

Stuyvesant in NYC is about 75% Asians and almost all of them are from low income family with parents who are not fluent in English attending crappy NYC public schools and yet manages to gain admission to Stuyvesant.

Another inconvenient truth.

Stuyvesant is a magnet prep school that is nationally famous for its rigorous courseload. I’m talking about inner city public schools, not magnet programs lmao.

DP.
Yes but almost all the students there come from a poor school.
About 75% of the students at stuy are asian.
About 90% of the FARM students at stuy are asian.
Asians have higher poverty rates than blacks in NYC.

Do you consider chinatown inner city?
How about flushing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

How many black and Hispanic students go to top/well-funded high schools to take these courses? The bulk of minorities at these institutions are rich or educationally-privileged, because you need to be. No inner city child really makes it to the gates, even before the end of AA

Not really.

Stuyvesant in NYC is about 75% Asians and almost all of them are from low income family with parents who are not fluent in English attending crappy NYC public schools and yet manages to gain admission to Stuyvesant.

Another inconvenient truth.

Stuyvesant is a magnet prep school that is nationally famous for its rigorous courseload. I’m talking about inner city public schools, not magnet programs lmao.

also Stuyvesant is “inconveniently” majority Asian, because NYC public schools are insanely segregated. There are many other magnet schools outside of TJ and Stuy that are very diverse.

I think you are missing the whole point of the post or intentionally being obtuse.

I guess I’m missing the entire point, because I believe I addressed it. How many Asians in local NYC public schools that aren’t educationally privileged getting into top schools? It’s just very uncommon. I can’t believe we are arguing whether you need to go to a good school to go to an elite college, but here we are.

The overwhelming majority of the kids at stuyvesant bronx science and brooklyn tech come from local public NYC schools. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:South Asians have become exceedingly rare in higher Ed, while you can’t throw a stone without there being an East Asian student. Seen many bitter rivalries between the two.

What?!?!? So many south asians in higher ed.
And what rivalries?
A lot of south asians are working their ass off and claiming spots that used to go to east asians and as an east asian, I say good for them, if you earn it then take it. Be productive and fill up the social security trust fund for my generation.

[Anonymous]

Asians, you can have the top schools. Have them all to yourselves. The rest of us will start going other places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As expected. But a little surprised by the decline in Latino students. There are a gazillion students with at least a grandparent from Latin America. Lots of Brazilian, Argentinian, Chilean families value education.

Only 2% of Latino students score over 700 in math SAT, so you simply should not expect to see a lot of them at MIT.

If you're going by over 700 SAT math, MIT should be about
47% Asian
43% White
3% Black
7% Hispanic

Actual class of 2027 is not too far off from that
47% Asian
37% White
5% Black
11% Hispanic

Now do 790 SAT.

If MIT just tracked SAT math scores, it would be even more Asian.

At MIT, 25% percentile for SAT math is 790 and 75% percentile is 800.

For 800 math scores, here is the national breakdown by race:

Asian 3%
White <1%
Mixed race <1%
Native American <1%
Black <1%
Hispanic <1%
Pacific Islander <1%

For 750+ math scores, here is the national breakdown by race:

Asian 22%
White 4%
Mixed race 4%
Native American 1%
Black <1%
Hispanic 1%
Pacific Islander 1%

no one wants to learn or create or live in a bubble of people selected based on SAT math scores.

Except for really rigorous environments like the folks developing fusion energy or the algorithmic trading hedge funds or anywhere competence actually matters.

God I hope my kid who really is crazy math talented uses his gifts on fusion energy and not algorithmic trading.

From your lips to god's ears but the top nuclear physicists in the world might make $200K after getting a BS at Princeton, A PhD at Cal Tech. An MIT math grad at the top of their class can make that their first year out of college at the quant hedge funds. They never go from quant hedge fund to lab work at Cern.