“Stuff Some Adults Don’t Want You to Read” at Langley

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in the first 26 pages of this discussion has given me reason to believe the outrage over this display is not, at its core, that certain parents do not want their kids to be exposed to ideas that might undermine messaging from their parents that being gay is wrong, blacks people are just a little bit lesser than white people, and the holocaust wasn’t really so bad. Maybe that will change in the next 26 pages, but I doubt it.

The fact that I don't want public school libraries actively promoting books that contain graphic sexual acts to freshmen doesn't make me a bigot. And FWIW I think anyone who wants to ban Maus is a loon.

And before someone starts in about the internet, my child doesn't have a smartphone and doesn't have unrestricted, unmonitored access to the internet at home. My parents let me have unrestricted internet access starting in middle school when my school gave me a laptop and I've learned from their mistake.

What do you think will happen to your child if they see a copy of Gender Queer sitting in a library display? What, specifically, is your fear?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found this whole thread an insightful discussion of the pros and cons of banning books in schools. Most posters have been civil and sincere (with some exceptions, of course, because this is DCUM after all). Wouldn't it be nice if our kids could have this very same discussion with their peers at school guided by an experienced adult like a librarian? Teaching critical thinking is one of the things our schools have traditionally done best. Let's not shut it down.

Not if the librarian is self-righteous enough to believe that they know better than the parents in terms of deciding what books the kids should read. Remember that parents have the ultimate sovereignty over the education of their kids. Having met certain very-basic requirements for child welfare, the parents are free to educate their kids how they see fit. Teachers and librarians must realize that this authority is the natural outcome of a free and liberal society.

Sounds like you should have your kids in private schools or homeschool them.

No, I pay my taxes, I am going to exercise the full extent of control I have over public schools.

How do you plan to do that? Other than declaring that you will on an anonymous message board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in the first 26 pages of this discussion has given me reason to believe the outrage over this display is not, at its core, that certain parents do not want their kids to be exposed to ideas that might undermine messaging from their parents that being gay is wrong, blacks people are just a little bit lesser than white people, and the holocaust wasn’t really so bad. Maybe that will change in the next 26 pages, but I doubt it.

The fact that I don't want public school libraries actively promoting books that contain graphic sexual acts to freshmen doesn't make me a bigot. And FWIW I think anyone who wants to ban Maus is a loon.

And before someone starts in about the internet, my child doesn't have a smartphone and doesn't have unrestricted, unmonitored access to the internet at home. My parents let me have unrestricted internet access starting in middle school when my school gave me a laptop and I've learned from their mistake.

Your HS kid doesn't have a smartphone?

What about a laptop at school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found this whole thread an insightful discussion of the pros and cons of banning books in schools. Most posters have been civil and sincere (with some exceptions, of course, because this is DCUM after all). Wouldn't it be nice if our kids could have this very same discussion with their peers at school guided by an experienced adult like a librarian? Teaching critical thinking is one of the things our schools have traditionally done best. Let's not shut it down.

Not if the librarian is self-righteous enough to believe that they know better than the parents in terms of deciding what books the kids should read. Remember that parents have the ultimate sovereignty over the education of their kids. Having met certain very-basic requirements for child welfare, the parents are free to educate their kids how they see fit. Teachers and librarians must realize that this authority is the natural outcome of a free and liberal society.

Sounds like you should have your kids in private schools or homeschool them.

No, I pay my taxes, I am going to exercise the full extent of control I have over public schools.

WTF is wrong with you? Are you feeling inadequate in other areas of your life so you need to use excessive force with your kid's school?

You do you, I do me. You have your way of raising your kids, I have mine.

It becomes our business when it includes bullying librarians.

Sit TF down and the let librarians and teachers do their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is yet another way that schools are making it an us (parents) versus them (adults in schools) mentality. Perpetuating the notion our kids, while at school, are independent and unaccountable to their parents is troubling. Or, at the worst indefensible, when "teaching" that their parents are morally wrong or "bad" because parents beliefs are counter to what is being normalized at school. I do not want to dictate what schools teach my kids, I just want schools to reiterate to our children that parents have the biggest stake in their lives. And, no matter what, their parents and what their parents provide, encourage, and instill in kids are the biggest indicators of success - not replaceable by anything a school can, nor should, do for children. Parenting is hard enough these days without having to fight and counter what adults, who are not in any way (legally, financially, emotionally) responsible for our children, are "teaching."

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/educations-enduring-love-affair-luxury-beliefs

This is high school. Yes, but then their minds are independent. They should be free to read what they want in a school library. Adding support for the librarian .

No, most kids in high school are minors and remain the responsibility of parents. The parents retain authority over the kids until they reach 18 or are emancipated. How the parents choose to set boundaries for their kids is beside the point. The point here is that parents have that power, and regardless of whether teachers or librarians agree or disagree with how certain parents choose to exercise their power, it's destructive to try and pit children against their parents.

Truly, you have a very misguided view about public education. You have a choice as to whether to send your kids to public school (as opposed to private or homeschool), but once you make that choice, most of your control over your child’s education ends. You do not get to dictate the math curriculum used. You do not get to dictate the subjects taught in science. You do not get to dictate what foreign languages will be available. You do not get to decide to at your child should be able to earn a standard diploma without taking any history at all. If you want that level of control, public school is not for you.

Maybe if you're totally unengaged in your child's education.

If you talk to your kids about what they're learning, review their work, send them to tutoring, teach them yourself you still have tons of control over their education. You can assign them books to read, and pick the math curriculum you teach.

Same if you have them take APs and CLEPs.

If you're passive in life you and your progeny are doomed to mediocrity. People in my community are heavily involved in their kids education, which is why they succeed in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is yet another way that schools are making it an us (parents) versus them (adults in schools) mentality. Perpetuating the notion our kids, while at school, are independent and unaccountable to their parents is troubling. Or, at the worst indefensible, when "teaching" that their parents are morally wrong or "bad" because parents beliefs are counter to what is being normalized at school. I do not want to dictate what schools teach my kids, I just want schools to reiterate to our children that parents have the biggest stake in their lives. And, no matter what, their parents and what their parents provide, encourage, and instill in kids are the biggest indicators of success - not replaceable by anything a school can, nor should, do for children. Parenting is hard enough these days without having to fight and counter what adults, who are not in any way (legally, financially, emotionally) responsible for our children, are "teaching."

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/educations-enduring-love-affair-luxury-beliefs

This is high school. Yes, but then their minds are independent. They should be free to read what they want in a school library. Adding support for the librarian .

No, most kids in high school are minors and remain the responsibility of parents. The parents retain authority over the kids until they reach 18 or are emancipated. How the parents choose to set boundaries for their kids is beside the point. The point here is that parents have that power, and regardless of whether teachers or librarians agree or disagree with how certain parents choose to exercise their power, it's destructive to try and pit children against their parents.

Truly, you have a very misguided view about public education. You have a choice as to whether to send your kids to public school (as opposed to private or homeschool), but once you make that choice, most of your control over your child’s education ends. You do not get to dictate the math curriculum used. You do not get to dictate the subjects taught in science. You do not get to dictate what foreign languages will be available. You do not get to decide to at your child should be able to earn a standard diploma without taking any history at all. If you want that level of control, public school is not for you.

This is demonstrably false. It's been discussed multiple times now in this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself for your benefit.

Oh really? You think you get to dictate what subject will be taught in science classes? You think you can force the school to offer courses you want you child to be taught? You think you can demand they teach Italian if that’s not in the course offerings?

No, I pay for it on my own or I can find free classes.

The internet has made this easier and cheaper than ever before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in the first 26 pages of this discussion has given me reason to believe the outrage over this display is not, at its core, that certain parents do not want their kids to be exposed to ideas that might undermine messaging from their parents that being gay is wrong, blacks people are just a little bit lesser than white people, and the holocaust wasn’t really so bad. Maybe that will change in the next 26 pages, but I doubt it.

The fact that I don't want public school libraries actively promoting books that contain graphic sexual acts to freshmen doesn't make me a bigot. And FWIW I think anyone who wants to ban Maus is a loon.

And before someone starts in about the internet, my child doesn't have a smartphone and doesn't have unrestricted, unmonitored access to the internet at home. My parents let me have unrestricted internet access starting in middle school when my school gave me a laptop and I've learned from their mistake.

Your HS kid doesn't have a smartphone?

What about a laptop at school?

How much you want to bet your child has already seen something on the internet you'd prefer they didn't see? Do they never go to friends' houses? Do they never get together with other kids outside your home or the other kids' homes? Because you know that most other kids will have smart phones on them starting in late ES or MS, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is yet another way that schools are making it an us (parents) versus them (adults in schools) mentality. Perpetuating the notion our kids, while at school, are independent and unaccountable to their parents is troubling. Or, at the worst indefensible, when "teaching" that their parents are morally wrong or "bad" because parents beliefs are counter to what is being normalized at school. I do not want to dictate what schools teach my kids, I just want schools to reiterate to our children that parents have the biggest stake in their lives. And, no matter what, their parents and what their parents provide, encourage, and instill in kids are the biggest indicators of success - not replaceable by anything a school can, nor should, do for children. Parenting is hard enough these days without having to fight and counter what adults, who are not in any way (legally, financially, emotionally) responsible for our children, are "teaching."

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/educations-enduring-love-affair-luxury-beliefs

This is high school. Yes, but then their minds are independent. They should be free to read what they want in a school library. Adding support for the librarian .

No, most kids in high school are minors and remain the responsibility of parents. The parents retain authority over the kids until they reach 18 or are emancipated. How the parents choose to set boundaries for their kids is beside the point. The point here is that parents have that power, and regardless of whether teachers or librarians agree or disagree with how certain parents choose to exercise their power, it's destructive to try and pit children against their parents.

Truly, you have a very misguided view about public education. You have a choice as to whether to send your kids to public school (as opposed to private or homeschool), but once you make that choice, most of your control over your child’s education ends. You do not get to dictate the math curriculum used. You do not get to dictate the subjects taught in science. You do not get to dictate what foreign languages will be available. You do not get to decide to at your child should be able to earn a standard diploma without taking any history at all. If you want that level of control, public school is not for you.

Maybe if you're totally unengaged in your child's education.

If you talk to your kids about what they're learning, review their work, send them to tutoring, teach them yourself you still have tons of control over their education. You can assign them books to read, and pick the math curriculum you teach.

Same if you have them take APs and CLEPs.

If you're passive in life you and your progeny are doomed to mediocrity. People in my community are heavily involved in their kids education, which is why they succeed in school.

There go the goalposts! 😆

This discussion is about what happens within public schools. What you do outside of school to review homework, get them extra tutoring and force them to read certain books in their free time is utterly irrelevant to your level of control over what happens inside the school.

And yes, you can have your kids take AP classes, but you do not get to dictate what is taught in those classes, or what books your AP student can access in the school library.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in the first 26 pages of this discussion has given me reason to believe the outrage over this display is not, at its core, that certain parents do not want their kids to be exposed to ideas that might undermine messaging from their parents that being gay is wrong, blacks people are just a little bit lesser than white people, and the holocaust wasn’t really so bad. Maybe that will change in the next 26 pages, but I doubt it.

Then you have reading comprehension problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found this whole thread an insightful discussion of the pros and cons of banning books in schools. Most posters have been civil and sincere (with some exceptions, of course, because this is DCUM after all). Wouldn't it be nice if our kids could have this very same discussion with their peers at school guided by an experienced adult like a librarian? Teaching critical thinking is one of the things our schools have traditionally done best. Let's not shut it down.

Not if the librarian is self-righteous enough to believe that they know better than the parents in terms of deciding what books the kids should read. Remember that parents have the ultimate sovereignty over the education of their kids. Having met certain very-basic requirements for child welfare, the parents are free to educate their kids how they see fit. Teachers and librarians must realize that this authority is the natural outcome of a free and liberal society.

Sounds like you should have your kids in private schools or homeschool them.

No, I pay my taxes, I am going to exercise the full extent of control I have over public schools.

How do you plan to do that? Other than declaring that you will on an anonymous message board.

By continuing to be engaged with the teachers, the administrators, the counselors, the principals, and the elected school board - commending them where I believe they have done well, constructive criticism where I believe needs improvement, and by recommending disciplinary action where rules are broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in the first 26 pages of this discussion has given me reason to believe the outrage over this display is not, at its core, that certain parents do not want their kids to be exposed to ideas that might undermine messaging from their parents that being gay is wrong, blacks people are just a little bit lesser than white people, and the holocaust wasn’t really so bad. Maybe that will change in the next 26 pages, but I doubt it.

The fact that I don't want public school libraries actively promoting books that contain graphic sexual acts to freshmen doesn't make me a bigot. And FWIW I think anyone who wants to ban Maus is a loon.

And before someone starts in about the internet, my child doesn't have a smartphone and doesn't have unrestricted, unmonitored access to the internet at home. My parents let me have unrestricted internet access starting in middle school when my school gave me a laptop and I've learned from their mistake.

What do you think will happen to your child if they see a copy of Gender Queer sitting in a library display? What, specifically, is your fear?

That kids will be exposed to unhealthy ideas about sexuality and be more tempted to engage in sexual activity before they are ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is yet another way that schools are making it an us (parents) versus them (adults in schools) mentality. Perpetuating the notion our kids, while at school, are independent and unaccountable to their parents is troubling. Or, at the worst indefensible, when "teaching" that their parents are morally wrong or "bad" because parents beliefs are counter to what is being normalized at school. I do not want to dictate what schools teach my kids, I just want schools to reiterate to our children that parents have the biggest stake in their lives. And, no matter what, their parents and what their parents provide, encourage, and instill in kids are the biggest indicators of success - not replaceable by anything a school can, nor should, do for children. Parenting is hard enough these days without having to fight and counter what adults, who are not in any way (legally, financially, emotionally) responsible for our children, are "teaching."

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/educations-enduring-love-affair-luxury-beliefs

This is high school. Yes, but then their minds are independent. They should be free to read what they want in a school library. Adding support for the librarian .

No, most kids in high school are minors and remain the responsibility of parents. The parents retain authority over the kids until they reach 18 or are emancipated. How the parents choose to set boundaries for their kids is beside the point. The point here is that parents have that power, and regardless of whether teachers or librarians agree or disagree with how certain parents choose to exercise their power, it's destructive to try and pit children against their parents.

Truly, you have a very misguided view about public education. You have a choice as to whether to send your kids to public school (as opposed to private or homeschool), but once you make that choice, most of your control over your child’s education ends. You do not get to dictate the math curriculum used. You do not get to dictate the subjects taught in science. You do not get to dictate what foreign languages will be available. You do not get to decide to at your child should be able to earn a standard diploma without taking any history at all. If you want that level of control, public school is not for you.

Maybe if you're totally unengaged in your child's education.

If you talk to your kids about what they're learning, review their work, send them to tutoring, teach them yourself you still have tons of control over their education. You can assign them books to read, and pick the math curriculum you teach.

Same if you have them take APs and CLEPs.

If you're passive in life you and your progeny are doomed to mediocrity. People in my community are heavily involved in their kids education, which is why they succeed in school.

There go the goalposts! 😆

This discussion is about what happens within public schools. What you do outside of school to review homework, get them extra tutoring and force them to read certain books in their free time is utterly irrelevant to your level of control over what happens inside the school.

And yes, you can have your kids take AP classes, but you do not get to dictate what is taught in those classes, or what books your AP student can access in the school library.

Nope, no shifting of goal posts, the assertion was "nce you make that choice, most of your control over your child’s education ends". That statement is false. Obviously you have less control of what is in the classroom, but you have control for the other 16 hours of the day.

It's not like I can't provide incentives or disincentives over behavior I don't like in my kids AP classroom or library. Be it with staff or my own child.

I'm guessing you're not a tiger mom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found this whole thread an insightful discussion of the pros and cons of banning books in schools. Most posters have been civil and sincere (with some exceptions, of course, because this is DCUM after all). Wouldn't it be nice if our kids could have this very same discussion with their peers at school guided by an experienced adult like a librarian? Teaching critical thinking is one of the things our schools have traditionally done best. Let's not shut it down.

Not if the librarian is self-righteous enough to believe that they know better than the parents in terms of deciding what books the kids should read. Remember that parents have the ultimate sovereignty over the education of their kids. Having met certain very-basic requirements for child welfare, the parents are free to educate their kids how they see fit. Teachers and librarians must realize that this authority is the natural outcome of a free and liberal society.

Sounds like you should have your kids in private schools or homeschool them.

No, I pay my taxes, I am going to exercise the full extent of control I have over public schools.

How do you plan to do that? Other than declaring that you will on an anonymous message board.

By continuing to be engaged with the teachers, the administrators, the counselors, the principals, and the elected school board - commending them where I believe they have done well, constructive criticism where I believe needs improvement, and by recommending disciplinary action where rules are broken.

You would "recommend disciplinary action where rules are broken. Broken by whom? Your child or school employees? What rules?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am always amazed that parents have so little confidence in their own family's value systems that they think exposure to different ones will cause their kids to defect.

They are afraid their kids will finally realize that their parents are racist, anti-LGTBQ, antisemitic POSs.

YUP!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing in the first 26 pages of this discussion has given me reason to believe the outrage over this display is not, at its core, that certain parents do not want their kids to be exposed to ideas that might undermine messaging from their parents that being gay is wrong, blacks people are just a little bit lesser than white people, and the holocaust wasn’t really so bad. Maybe that will change in the next 26 pages, but I doubt it.

The fact that I don't want public school libraries actively promoting books that contain graphic sexual acts to freshmen doesn't make me a bigot. And FWIW I think anyone who wants to ban Maus is a loon.

And before someone starts in about the internet, my child doesn't have a smartphone and doesn't have unrestricted, unmonitored access to the internet at home. My parents let me have unrestricted internet access starting in middle school when my school gave me a laptop and I've learned from their mistake.

What do you think will happen to your child if they see a copy of Gender Queer sitting in a library display? What, specifically, is your fear?

That kids will be exposed to unhealthy ideas about sexuality and be more tempted to engage in sexual activity before they are ready.

Being something other than cis-het is “unhealthy”?